Vote for Lord Knight, Change to voting process Options

[Kail]

For this year's vote we are changing the way people will be able to vote.

To cast a vote you must be doing something at the caves, playing a KotL or crewing. Each time you play a KotL character or crew you will be able to cast a vote, so you will be able to vote more than once.

Edd

[JamesBroderick]

Hey can I ask why this change has come
Into place. Seem unfair on people
Who couldn’t access or still can’t access the caves for irc reason

Thanks.

Brodders

[DanM]

I would say multiple votes is the bigger issue, makes sense to limit it to people active at the caves. Although that does mean that lots of people with an interest do not get to cast a vote

[dhurrell]

I think there has been lots of discussion over recent years on the election process and how to make it better.
There are pros and cons on all arrangements, and I'd be happy to give this one a try to see if it incentivises people actively playing their KotL characters (or crewing to help support the club more widely).
I think circumstances may mean I won't be able to vote on this one, but happy to accept that if its to see if it makes a positive difference over all

[BBB]

Just throwing out there: Capping the number of votes a player casts at the number of KotL characters they have and voting should be in the spirit of each character.

Personally, only having two Knights, each vote I work out which one gets to vote and vote as them (usually the one which was most recently played).

I think being able to potentially have a vote as each of your KotL characters could be cool?

BBB

[Stuart]

For this year's vote we are changing the way people will be able to vote.

To cast a vote you must be doing something at the caves, playing a KotL or crewing. Each time you play a KotL character or crew you will be able to cast a vote, so you will be able to vote more than once.

Edd

I think this is a really bad change in itself, as well as totally the wrong way to make the change. This excludes people who either struggle to get down the caves, or who are really busy when they are down the caves - when I am reffing I never have time to do makes or other things.

The previous system has worked perfectly well for years, and so before you just change things you should explain:

1. What is so wrong with the old system that justifies junking it in favour of this new variation,
2. What the impact will be of changing it, both good and bad, and
3. What you are doing to ameliorate the impact on the people who will now be unable to vote

Having done that, you then stand for election on the basis that you will, if elected, change the system in this way.

Arbitrarily changing voting systems without actually getting approval of your voters is really really bad. So bad.

Stuart

[Onasuma]

For those not on the WhatsApp groups, tgis was a fully considered decision agreed by all the lords of the orders. Several options, including not changing were offered and this was the winner.

Heather

[Whybover]

Right, one thing I'm confused on, and it seems a lot of other people else are reasonably confused by too, is if the problems people have are IC or OOC. Also how the changes actually work IC?

It makes sense for inactive Knights to not vote, but how come active Knights vote more often? What does it mean if I vote when crewing: is my character active because I'm crewing? What if they vote more than once because I'm crewing so much, did someone just let them do that because they were active?

If these are IC changes, from decisions by the Lords of Order, then I don't want to post on this from the point of view of Ivan, and I don't mind things being unfair, that's what Democracy is for. Even if it upsets me, the point of argument, debate, etcetera, is that I can argue about it IC.

If the changes are purely OOC, then running on a platform to change things is completely beside the point; why bother?

Either way, I'm broadly supportive of change, I'd just like to know if Edd was telling us this or Kail, and if it's Kail then I'd appreciate the opportunity for Knights characters to express their unhappiness. I'd also like to know what the IC change that allows this is, even if we agree it's a 'figleaf' when it comes to crewing letting me vote.

Ta,
Ivan

[Onasuma]

There are more knights than pcs. Crewing to vote is imo campaigning during your down time to find another voter, same way MPs represent your off dungeon Merc work.

Heather

[TimTreadwell]

Surely be taking the time to vote as your character you are being "active" even if you are not at the caves?

A halfway house would be to have votes as normal but also have an extra for those at the pit. (I don't actually like this either but it's an option.)

I'm with Stuart on this one.

[Kail]

Let's work through these points.

Brodders. It's been talked about for quite some time, several years. Some think the old election system wasn't working, not representative of current active players and characters, and was becoming stale. The lords of order players, as well as former lord knights, have been talking about it and this new way of doing it is the best option we've come up with.

Yes it does mean if you don't play any more you don't get a vote. If there's a serious reason you can't get down the caves in November or December, a sixth of a year, talk to me.

Dan. The multiple vote idea was the one chosen. It's a way of getting KotL characters active and encouraging crew.

Dave. That's broadly our thoughts.

BBB. We discussed the idea of one vote per KotL character but the admin is monsterous. Who knows how many old KotL characters people have in their folders? It opened things up to too many questions.

Stuart. If people legitimately can't vote when they are at the caves send me a message the next day and we'll have a chat. Easy one, thanks for that.

Some people don't think the old way was working well. Yes it worked but did it work well? We don't think it did. The hope is this way will have positive impacts for the guild and the club.

Point 1. None active players have as much say as active ones.
Point 2. Bad first. You can never please everyone and lots of people dislike change so it will inevitably upset some people. It might not work. Positives. It might get KotL characters more active for a sixth of the year. It might help generate more crew. Hopefully it will allow active players to have more say than none active ones. Some people like to try new things and didn't think the old way was working so will be pleased to see it.
Point 3. If you are active and legitimately can't do anything at the caves for one sixth of the year message me.

Heather. Thanks for pointing that out.

Ivan. As in are people unhappy with the change IC or OOC? I think OOC.

How the changes work IC. The desk represents the poling booth. If you don't get to the caves you don't get to the poling booth. That bits easy. How does the multiple votes work. Think of it as your influence on the IC world. It's how many KotL NPCs that agree with you.

Let's keep this thread as an OOC thread and we can do another IC thread if people want. The IC one will be easy. We are no longer accepting votes via elementals, you have to attend the Rest in person.

Keep asking and I'll keep answering when I get a chance.

[BBB]

BBB. We discussed the idea of one vote per KotL character but the admin is monsterous. Who knows how many old KotL characters people have in their folders? It opened things up to too many questions.

In case it wasn't clear I was suggesting a cap more to stop someone who has few, or even no knights characters, using the OOC mechanism to legitimately vote multiple times because they happen to be around the caves a lot in those few months. Maybe I'm cynical but I can see a situation where someone with no real interest in KotL could cast a lot of, lets say "comedy" votes.

In all other votes you clearly had to vote as a specific character, both when it used to be done in person at the caves via ballot box and when it moved to being done via email.

Also, by your logic, its appears mostly irrelevant if someone has loads of KotL characters sat in their wallet that person would still need to come down and crew / play a KotL to utilise that vote. I mean its been lauded as an obviously good thing that someone comes down and supports the caves but for most of us with family commitments December is always a tricky month to be around.

BBB

[Kail]

Sorry, I miss understood. You have to vote as a character in KotL. The form will ask for player name and character name you are voting as.

[Kail]

Sorry Tim, I missed your post. I think it went up when I was typing.

I would say you were staying involved not being active. By active we mean contributing to the "live" part of the game. Talking on the boards and WhatsApp groups definitely keeps people as part of the wider Laby community but doesn't make you active in the "live" dungeon part of the club.