Friday: Mantics, What else? Options

[DanM]

Ok,

What would be the changes needed and repercussions, of removing the ability to combine power-bases?

There are a few obvious issues, Spiritless creatures and resurrection being one of them

[sonof]

Large scale respends because so many people have them/are based on their existence.

It is far to late to remove them without wide reaching unforeseeable consequences.

Lee

[whiteknight]

This maybe a bit off topic....but mantics which allow reanimations (thankfully) how do you get them? I have never asked - is there a class or is it something a wizard can develop post 8th or something?

Rich

[RichFromant]

We would have nothing to talk about most Fridays and would actually have to do work??

[SiDeards]

Whiteknight, look at Vivomancer in the priest book and also Mancer MC in the Post 8th Book

Si

[Mojo]

This maybe a bit off topic....but mantics which allow reanimations (thankfully) how do you get them? I have never asked - is there a class or is it something a wizard can develop post 8th or something?

Rich

No, I have had res elf blanket rejected as my wizard with the "go priest". Basically you need an evil priest, with animate life to then path wizard and learn to cast it mantically. Job done, well that or ask any Dave Fisher character?

[Christine]

If changing mantics would get rid of the endless Friday posts about it, I'd be all for it But it won't.

How about instead we abolish Fridays and all have 3 day weekends instead?

C

[DanM]

How about instead we abolish Fridays and all have 3 day weekends instead?

This is the best plan in the world

I've long been an advocate of the 4-day week, 3-day weekend setup.
What we need is a real recession to make it viable to step back to a 4-day week...

[Mojo]

Can it start today please? I am absolutely hanging and need to get back to bed They lie, Thursday is NOT the new Friday, at least not if you still have to bloody work and deal with an infant in the morning

[Leo]

I think it's Jan who's been touting the idea of mantics allowing spells to be cast spiritually and miracles to be cast magically, but not having any combined mantic effect. I like this approach.

[Abel]

I would have thought that a slow weaning off the fact of people having them, not removing them, until no mantics are available to anyone who doesn't already have them, then either killing off or waiting for previous mantic characters to die, then no-one needs them and for all non- spirituals characters give them half a spirit, done and done!

[DanM]

I think it's Jan who's been touting the idea of mantics allowing spells to be cast spiritually and miracles to be cast magically, but not having any combined mantic effect. I like this approach.

When you change powerbases like that, all sorts of weird anomalies happen

Like Magic Spirit Invis...

It would be better if the power cost was comparable. 5sp for a spirit invis is ok, 5 mana for immune to magic seems far too cheap.

[DanM]

I would have thought that a slow weaning off the fact of people having them, not removing them, until no mantics are available to anyone who doesn't already have them, then either killing off or waiting for previous mantic characters to die, then no-one needs them and for all non- spirituals characters give them half a spirit, done and done!

That would create a tier of have's and have-not's.

And giving people half a spirit, hmm, too many characters are set around having no spiritual resistances because they have no spirit.

IMO if mantics just meant "can now affect people immune to the powerbase" then there wouldn't be any issues. All it does is allow it to work, no additional benefits.

[Stuart]

I blame Paul Chapman. Without his 'strong 'mantics' we'd never have reached this problem. 'Mantics should just do both powerbases, no some new uber-powerbase that doesn't really fit in.

A 'mantic wight should be harmed by magic and spirits, the advantage being that it can chase elves around and not that you can only hurt it with 'mantic damage. Same for 'mantic spirit form, 'mantic prots, etc.

In many ways I prefer Jan's idea, where 'mantics just let you change the powerbase of an effect between magic and spirit (e.g., a magical res costing 10 spirits (to cast the res) and then 10 mana (to change it to a purely magical res)).

Stuart

[Leo]

It would be better if the power cost was comparable. 5sp for a spirit invis is ok, 5 mana for immune to magic seems far too cheap.

What Stuart said. In this example, the magic spirit invis would be 5 mana 5 spirits.

[DanM]

What Stuart said. In this example, the magic spirit invis would be 5 mana 5 spirits.

Actually after seeing Stuarts example, I like it. Another win from the Brain of Jan.

[Ryan]

I like it and in fact applied for it recently as an 8th Level Spiritual Dominator pathed to Bronze Wizard. I applied for an had failed -

Because Bronze is Awful I can cast any Published Dominion Sphere miracle I know with Bronze mana at +50% cost. I.e Spiritual Mastery - 8 Bronze Mana - Skill level equal to my bronze skill level.

Now if that isn't doable I can't see how it can be a solution for fixing the problem. I can cast a Mantic Spiritual Mastery 10 Levels for 5 Mana and 4 Spirits but not a Magic Spiritual Mastery 6 levels for 8 Mana...

I don't think anyone wants to fix the problem is what i am trying to say which is fair I like the way it works now.

[DavidFisher]

Because Bronze is Awful

Bronze is clearly brilliant... FOOL!

David

[Rob]

What Stuart said. In this example, the magic spirit invis would be 5 mana 5 spirits.

This option would have the benefit of duplicating Jonas's 10k gift and giving me something else to moan about!

Strong :-). Could do with a 12k respend, could use the points on immune to cut though retros...

[Leo]

This option would have the benefit of duplicating Jonas's 10k gift and giving me something else to moan about!

Strong :-). Could do with a 12k respend, could use the points on immune to cut though retros...

Given that it's mechanically a fair bit weaker than proper mantics but costs the same in power, either you got robbed or yours comes with some other clever hook to it.

Besides, you need immunity to other's immunity to cut through retros (must be declared within 2 seconds of someone being immune to my cut through retros).