Answers to divinations Options

[Netheril]

Please only post here questions you have asked and answers received. Conversation about those answers is best in other parts of the tower, to keep this easy to refer back to for all:

If I make this sacrifice, is there any way for the flaw in Sinsanium to be healed as part of the process. Restoring him to the man he used to be, rather than requiring his destruction?

If he were to reborn after your death then certainly as the corresponding flaw would no longer exist. this would deal with the long-term problem of the council.

Are there any obvious flaws in Jez's plan (my sacrifice) that I am unaware of. Anything important I have not been told / informed of, or that we have missed.

- Not that I can see, unfortunately it is a good plan.

Is it true that Sinsanium is much more likely to accept the deal now, than after our first attempt at a seal, if that attempt ends in failure?

- Yes he would be much more likely to accept it now, than if you failed to capture a significant lens. ie not one he might consider a forgone conclusion.

Is it possible, as a result of my sacrifice, and influence over the seal being created, that the damage to other worlds could be greatly reduced. Perhaps a flaw within the seal that allows some primal energy to be directed to the most outlying worlds, gradually working its way across all planes over the course of millenia as a kind of wave of constantly replenished primal energy. Or any similar ritual solution of this ilk.

- ​absolutely i believe an exostance tree could be grown to spread the power evenly over the exostance tieing all planes to primus enough that they essentially will not need to be renewed. other entropy and destruction will always happen but as for planes ceasing to exist because of the cycle of renewal this would stop.


Ask your mother and Father why your utter distraction is necessary and why you can not just have your time in Ting-Bo’s tea house and come back to your duty when your time is ready?

Lord Neko

Sirac;

As our most favoured son we look upon you with great love and affection and for us both you will always be the most cherished of all our children. We want you to return to us, we do not want you to miss your turn in Ting-bo's tea house. It will pain us greatly for all eternity. You will however always be remembered should you take the path that leads to your destruction. We will always ensure that your memory lives on forever.

We are aware of your plans and we intend to walk with you on your journey whatever road you take but it is your road; It is your choice. We have aided you and guided you but we cannot intervene in your choice here. It is your choice and yours alone. Remember this our son, you will never truly be alone, you have friends, family, comrades in arms and each and every one of them will remember you or fight with you or bleed with you until the very last whatever you decide.

You can fight to the bitter end and you can win, you have some of the most powerful friends and gods and dragons in your corner and if you fight to the very last fibre of your being we will stand with you whether you win or lose.

If you take the path that you seem to have set your mind and most importantly your heart upon then you will be destroyed. The ritual which you aim to stop is beyond anything previously conceived let alone constructed. It is the most powerful thing we have ever had come to our attention. Nothing can survive it; it is simple as that. It is simply too powerful the amount of energy is beyond even one of us could withstand. We are sorry Sirac this is unavoidable on your current path if you make the choice you appear to have made.

You could walk other paths but you have weighed the options carefully and have understood that this is the greatest sacrifice ever made of any mercenary but it is also the one that will do the most good for the exostance and its people. It is the rarest of gifts that you intend on giving to all. Stability, safety and the preservation of all life and all things.

We wish we knew of a way to avoid destruction on your path but it is not within our knowledge.

Remember life is precious beyond all reason, we love you our most favoured son, we love you with all our hearts no matter your choices in the most difficult time of your existence.

A further divination, if possible please. Which of the below options, or combination of options, has the greatest potential for ending the threat to the exostance? If sufficient time, dedication, determination and if necessary sacrifice were brought to bear for this Purpose?

Primus alternates with other Planes as the centre.
Whatever “stability” comes from being the centre, “Primus” if you like, is donated/passed on to planes that need it.
Primus converges with each other plane in turn.
Rituals are developed and enacted that protect the other planes.
Primus, as in our Plane, is removed from the exostancial sphere.
Someone, lets face it you, become a “Spirit” or Guardian of the Planes and has to continually sort out the problems.
An “Exostance tree” is planted/created to link the planes. (See number 2.)
Tribal allies Spirit Quest into the Wyld to investigate the original ritual and possible options there.
You see audience with the Empress to see what options she might bring to the table.
Seek backing from the Circle, the KotL, Jasiah etc and begin preparing for a concerted effort for the Final Dawn at the end of the year.

Again speaking with the Empress may be an excellent idea here as it may be something She could support with creating subservient Thrones on other Planes to allow a slow controlled siphon of power instead of the entropic slosh.

1.​Primus alternates with other Planes as the centre. – This is the natural order of things

2.​Whatever “stability” comes from being the centre, “Primus” if you like, is donated/passed on to planes that need it. – very difficult as not all planes will necessarily want to effectively become under the control and protection of Primus. There are simply to many planes involved. Essentially you would have to form an exostance wide controlling Empire!!

3.​Primus converges with each other plane in turn. – See point 2, not sure to be honest.

4.​Rituals are developed and enacted that protect the other planes. – could be done but would be a never-ending battle, lets face it the “bad guys” will constantly just remove them.

5.​Primus, as in our Plane, is removed from the exostancial sphere. – This would prevent the ritual but as far as I can tell it would mean Primus ceases to exist. It can’t simply be moved.

6.​Someone, lets face it you, become a “Spirit” or Guardian of the Planes and has to continually sort out the problems. – I can see a solution here whereby someone could potentially become the “Primal Spirit” of Primus replacing the Wyld when the throne explodes. ((OOC - Would need CC’s I imagine, a lot of effort, sign off from Lee and I imagine that PC would no longer be playable and require a character of sufficient standing ie 30k+. There may be potential in having someone ascend to guardian of the Exostance but again I think this makes the character unpalayable. I don’t see these as options that anyone would take but it’s a possibility.))

7.​An “Exostance tree” is planted/created to link the planes. (See number 2.) – I like it as a post ritual idea. ((Doable it would require a lot of effort and CP’s))

8.​Tribal allies Spirit Quest into the Wyld to investigate the original ritual and possible options there. – I would say no, time travel would be required, and I would say it’s not an option.

9.​You seek audience with the Empress to see what options she might bring to the table. – Sensible. ((I would have to arrange this as an on-dungeon personal meeting with all the dangers that would entail.)) This is doable.

10.​Seek backing from the Circle, the KotL, Jasiah etc and begin preparing for a concerted effort for the Final Dawn at the end of the year. – This will almost certainly be required in any event, at some point people and organisations will be required to hold the rituals once captured and re-focussed.

Again speaking with the Empress may be an excellent idea here as it may be something She could support with creating subservient Thrones on other Planes to allow a slow controlled siphon of power instead of the entropic slosh. – I can’t currently judge the Empresses opinion.

[dnsmantra]

I have arranged to do some scrying of my own via a number of avenues and powers to clarify a few areas and gauge some potential ideas. I will also endeavour to speak with Truic. She is not manifest at present, but it should be possible. At the very least she is the recipient of much of my scrying. If I fail, I would council seeking out Tarquin as a custodian of our faith or Rikard, our high priest, in the south.

I would suggest using your contacts in Amlas to seek to arrange a meeting with the remaining Laiu there as a matter of urgency. They could add clarity to much of what we believe that scrying will not reveal.

Nexus
Arm of the Empress

[Stuart]

Please please do not have Truic manifest unless you absolutely must. It allows all other relevant divine powers an opportunity to do the same.

J

[dnsmantra]

Please please do not have Truic manifest unless you absolutely must. It allows all other relevant divine powers an opportunity to do the same.

Not sure if this is in response to me or the prior suggestions. Either way I absolutely agree. I should be able to talk to her without doing so. And there are others who can do so, both within and without of the faith (most nobles for example). Those avenues should be what we explore.

It is worth saying for openness, in-case anyone here is unaware, that she can see anything I can see, as if she were looking through my eyes (not that I imagine she needs to except where blinkered eyes and the like are concerned, being a Goddess and the Mistress of Primus after all), but where I am her attention is more closely drawn.

Nexus

[Ferro]

Just a quick clarification; is the Wyld mentioned here the wyld as in the wyrm and the wyld known in The Far North?
I’ve not heard of another wyld. To be honest, I haven’t heard of a lot of this stuff before….


Kiwi

[Stuart]

Just a quick clarification; is the Wyld mentioned here the wyld as in the wyrm and the wyld known in The Far North?
I’ve not heard of another wyld. To be honest, I haven’t heard of a lot of this stuff before….
Kiwi

The Wyld is the spirit of Primus that held sway before the throne of glass was moved from Ishma. I don't know if the people of the Far North follow it or worship it, but I'm sure Owl or someone can help.

J

[Netheril]

The Wyld is the spirit of Primus that held sway before the throne of glass was moved from Ishma. I don't know if the people of the Far North follow it or worship it, but I'm sure Owl or someone can help.

J

My understanding is the Wyld is imprisoned by / within the throne of glass. This is the "flaw" within the throne, the same as Sinsanium and I have our own "flaws", making us valid targets.

One of the reasons this makes the throne such a tempting target for the ritual is that not only does it mean Labyrinthia begins to move, but it releases the Wyld. Which the council believes would keep us so busy between Octuar and the Final Dawn that we would not be able to do what is necessary to re-anchor Labyrinthia.

Sirac

[duncanmatthias]

I believe a slight correction here, the Throne has a flaw like any naturally occurring large Crystal might.

Below the throne there is a prison of sorts. The Throne is the door. Scrying reveals that this prison being opened will have dire consequences to Labyrinthia. The working theory is it’s the Wyld that does this.

What was locked away is for the capturer’s to tell you, if they are allowed

Jez

[Stuart]

I'll put scrying here, and commentary elsewhere. Then we have a record of the difference between answers and opinions. The source of my scrying is unlikely to be particularly biased.

Firstly confirmation to some of what is said above.

Primus's continual situation means that some planes of existence that would be renewed if it moved are not. The fact that they do not receive a surge of Primal energy means that they fall are destroyed. The next one due to fall is Androthiel. The two places previously destroyed were Z'korth and Lathal.

The rituals:
There are two separate and unconnected parts of these rituals, which are remarkably similar across 21 planes of existence. One severs the anchoring of Primus. The other destroys something that is flawed.

They operate as follows:
Each plane has been reordered in a preposterously titanic manner to channel and accumulate the natural flows of power around it. Ley lines have been manipulated, forests and rivers redirected, towns and cities relocated, huge earthworks and excavations constructed. They are now spheres, like a moon, and the actual ritual is held in a massive circular depression, heavily defended. In the centre of each is a tower, and at the top of the tower is a focusing ritual. It acts as a lens and is set to a particular target for a main rite (severing the anchors on Primus) and a subsidiary one (destroying the flawed target - though the exact specification of this is vague). They are predominantly focused on the Throne of Glass.

It is this focusing rite that directs the effect of the rituals. Interestingly the power to sever Primus's anchors is a less focused thing - the lensing rite seems to mostly apply to the subsidiary destruction ritual.

The power is transferred between planes using existing leylines that run between planes of existence.

"Normal" counterrites, wards and protections will simply be overwhelmed by the amount of power being channelled.

J

[dnsmantra]

My latest scrying answers. I'll have a few more in due course.

---

Old History:

- I have confirmed that the 1000 year cycle decay did not interact with Gawlys of the other baronial demon worlds. People confusing this and the world thief/eater is certainly bad.

- I also confirmed, as have others, that only two worlds were lost, 1000 years apart.

- Also that most likely that there were several prior ages to the first age (I think we accept this). We call it 1st because it was the first that anyone actually remembered existing by name (although very little of what happened); because the slate was not entirely wiped 'clean'. Very likely there were multiple parallel such earlier ages, in many divergent realities. All not really relevant in terms of planning but I'm really just solidifying what is 'known' or at least is likely.

- The throne itself is not connected to the 1000 year cycle. We know this as it was fashioned in not so ancient history and moved from Ishma to Haglar, but I just wanted to make that clear.

---

Other Plans:

​- The Council of Renenwal does not appear to care about anything other than returning the exostance to its natural state. However since Sinsaniam went mad some members of the council have begun other plans that are more insidious nature. There does not appear to be some grand 'cover up', but if there was I doubt it would be able to be scryed about. I am still deeply suspicious.

The Ritual:

- The throne is not vulnerable persay, it is simply the sheer magnitude of power involved in such a short space in time. While it usually channels vast amounts of power, the concentration is the issue. I theorise that were the attack somehow spaced out, or spread out, then it might fare better.

- Creating a 2nd throne of glass, hiding the first, and using the 'fake' as a target for the ritual is possible, but it would need to actually be a throne of nagrech. Similarly using a secundal throne, the crystal throne of the fae lord of Primus or similar could be possible, but it would all need to be very carefully planned to ensure the real throne does not fall and the Wyld is not released.

- It is probably easier just to use Sinsanium or Sirac as the target. Perhaps a method of enquiry might be how we could 'cheat' the death that the ritual would inflict upon him. Maybe something as simple as multiple people taking the death for him. Something someone should investigate for certain.

- Pre-emtively 'dismantling' the throne using highly skilled crafters and ritualist and then putting it back together after the strike has passed will work to thwart the ritual. The difficulty is keeping the Wyld trapped while doing so (outside the obvious of there being a period without a throne).

---

Note, I'm not suggesting we do some of the more outlandish ideas here, but I wanted to cover all options I could think of.

Nexus

[Stuart]

- It is probably easier just to use Sinsanium or Sirac as the target. Perhaps a method of enquiry might be how we could 'cheat' the death that the ritual would inflict upon him.

Nexus

I can do this, but someone would need to lend him a spirit for a bit.

J

[Netheril]

I can do this, but someone would need to lend him a spirit for a bit.

J

That is unfortunately not possible J.

Thank you Nexus, that’s some very interesting information and ideas.

I am…reluctant for others to take the death for me, but so long as it would not involve their destruction, then it is an option that might be worth exploring. Depending on what the actual cost would be, and if enough willing. I would prefer this to be a last resort but have some ideas to share if this is necessary. You do not know me well, so just to let you know this is very much a speciality of mine. I have very potent spells for attracting magical attacks, and for taking deaths from others.

I can also put anything I can cast into a potion that my allies can drink, so long as they can benefit from potions.

I mention these things in case it would be of use.

Obviously I am not however going to enter into a deal with Sinsanium and then try to cheat. So this would have to be an ironclad solution we were sure would work without the deal.

I will await your further investigation and thoughts. But to me, these seem like the most promising avenues of exploration yet.

Sirac

[Stuart]

That is unfortunately not possible J.

Sirac

I don't know your talents, Sirac - it may be that the spirit sharing miracle won't stick on you? For my part I can decline to take a person if I am present, but I have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to creatures purely of magic.

J
Death

[Netheril]

I don't know your talents, Sirac - it may be that the spirit sharing miracle won't stick on you? For my part I can decline to take a person if I am present, but I have a bit of a blind spot when it comes to creatures purely of magic.

J
Death

Yes, sorry I didnt clarify. It is impossible for me to ever be given a spirit, even temporarily.

Sirac

[Stuart]

Yes, sorry I didnt clarify. It is impossible for me to ever be given a spirit, even temporarily.

Sirac

How ironic.

J

[Netheril]

How ironic.

J

Whilst mentioning difficulties I suppose I should mention that nothing beneficial will work on me unless it has my parents magic as a part of it.

Sirac

[Stevelouch]

I believe a slight correction here, the Throne has a flaw like any naturally occurring large Crystal might.

Below the throne there is a prison of sorts. The Throne is the door. Scrying reveals that this prison being opened will have dire consequences to Labyrinthia. The working theory is it’s the Wyld that does this.

What was locked away is for the capturer’s to tell you, if they are allowed

Jez

I have interacted with the Empress as she is my Pantheon leader as the world spirit and have examined the throne for flaws.

The flaws within it cannot be fixed by me or I suspect anyone unless someone has skills beyond that of its creator and the rites involved and that would involve craving parts of it or reshaping it.

Effectively one of the flaws is that the Wyld is trapped so I think to remove that flaw you would have to deal with the original World Spirit.

I think either Gold mana should not be effected or could be bolstered to prevent major in advance or directly by me at the time or in the period of turmoil if things go wrong.

Jander

[Patch]

The Wyld is the spirit of Primus that held sway before the throne of glass was moved from Ishma. I don't know if the people of the Far North follow it or worship it, but I'm sure Owl or someone can help.

J

You remember when we went to kill Gethen together and Ikhala put us in bodies of the fallen, well Ikhala wanted to smash the throne to release the wyld because he liked it... I believe he was its champion, warhaft, whatever... it was his totem and the totem of his tribe.

Harpell

((OOC Apologies for the cross post, but will chip in with relevant knowledge where possessed by other characters))

[Labyman]

To me sounds like a great plan. serpent tongued sirac gets what he deserves and save the world.

2 birds one stone.

Happy to help on this one, anything to return the favour to Sirac for helping me against the Destroyer
Radah

[Netheril]

So I had the opportunity on Sunsday to ask questions at a font of knowledge. That would empower my divinations. Some of the answers follow:

"Is there a plan with a good chance of success that we are currently missing that would not necessitate my sacrifice? Or information we do not have that would influence things."

- ​You could use a combination of other plans such as destroying as many planes as possible and building ritual protections over Halgar to defend the throne but this relies on making sure Sinsaniam never reaches 11 rituals to target you. In terms of re-anchoring Labyrinthia; you could adjust the reality of the throne by re-carving the instructions on the back of it. There are actually a multitude of possibilities which I am sure will present themselves over the next few weeks as people pull their comms together. Currently your current plan is by far the easiest and has the greatest chance of success but the future is never that simple there may be other ways not yet presented.

"To what extent were the forces we met so powerful last Sunsday because they were forewarned?"

- ​Actually the issue is really that you should not have had to fight any of them if they had not been forewarned you could have just used the coins. You could have simply used the coins as representatives of the council. These were the Council's elite troops too as well as Guardians of the Eye of all things.

"Can we expect a similar degree of opposition in seizing sites of power" - ​Yes and no, some will be easier and Sinsiam's homeworld will be as hard.

"The exostance tree, or web, where would you suggest we start our investigations into how to bring this into existence, with or without my sacrifice." - ​Well you are going to need a something to plant it in that can control god like powers and dragons in full form. You are going to need a suitable seed.

"The divine caches, how are these created? Is there a site we could attack that would prevent their creation?" - ​These are manufactured in the realm beyond and are tied to the Old Ones. You could venture back into the realm beyond to destroy the manufacture of them.

"What can you tell me of Sinsanium? Strengths, weaknesses, how best to defeat. Powers we should be prepared for when fighting him. Preparations it would be wise to make before meeting him."

- ​Not yet......