Wizard Mana Options

[Patch]

Hi All,

So I'm trying to gauge what a good level of mana is in the "modern" system, at the various thresholds. in this case for an Elven Wizard (not bracket locked)

I was just wondering about peoples views on the levels of mana at say

1,500

3,000

7,500

10,000

and then on for that how it is likely best achieved.

Thoughts welcome.

Patch

[Forefallen]

Last time around I had about 450 mana by 3k as a Fae wizard, I did it by pooling innates.

This time around I’ve tried to avoid pooling for fears of it being costly and not as good. I still had around 360 (functionally, not raw) mana by 3k.

Med and a draw upon the dragons breath is lovely, you’re almost always going to find 15 minutes on a double length. I get the rest of mine from magic of the blood status

Jack

[Patch]

Last time around I had about 450 mana by 3k as a Fae wizard, I did it by pooling innates.

This time around I’ve tried to avoid pooling for fears of it being costly and not as good. I still had around 360 (functionally, not raw) mana by 3k.

Med and a draw upon the dragons breath is lovely, you’re almost always going to find 15 minutes on a double length. I get the rest of mine from magic of the blood status

Jack

Ah great, so more about how quickly you can regain your mana, than your base mana

Patch

[Stuart]

My high wizard had 144 at 1,500, 166 at 3k and the same at 5,250.

I get by with book mage, a couple of enhancements, a handful of expertises and decent med rate. I don't normally run short, but do use 300+ mana a day at full costs.

I guess it depends what else you want to do with your day. If you're fighting and there's another wizard on dungeon you can probably do with less. I hear a rumour innate pooling is going to be proper nerfed.

Stuart

[Gordon]

1500 - 124: Base 90 (9th Level M&C) + Tables: +34
3000 - 160: Base 90 (9th Level M&C) + Tables: +34 + Archmage: +36

7500k - 180: Base 110 (10th Level M&C) + Tables: +34 + Archmage: +36

These are you standard published things, presuming you don't bracket lock and you don't specialise in only one colour so you can buy the Elemental Lord Series.

The real question is what non-standard mana increases / extra available to people expect you to have.

I have never really done anything with playing 1st class Wizards beyond the 3-5250 range to have explored it myself and nothign in the Modern "Lee" GSM'ed system.

[Stuart]

Archmage is 550pts. No way I'd buy it before 5.250 - I reckon it's much better to spend those points on mana reductions or regen. Mana Vortex at 600pts is better - 12 mana an hour throughout the day.

What do you cast your magic on? I keep a tally as my wizard and I'm generally casting a big spell once in a while, but levels 1-6 most of the day. 1 mana off everything and some half-cost castings therefore has a massive impact on what I'm able to keep doing all day.

If you really want more mana, the most efficient way to buy it is work out which spells you cast every adventure and buy them as innates at 8pts each.

Stuart

[DavidFisher]

Depends on your flavour of wizard
Archmage is great, even investing in 7/8 if you want "all in" as it potentially nets you 48 mana, advocacy and a stacking lvl in wizard. Obviously the opportunity cost could be huge.
The Arcarnum status can save you 6-10 mana and hour and is dirt cheap. Other ways to reduce mana costs and regain power are often better than trying to have a lot to start with.
I have a 1500 point wizard that has gone mancer immediately and its a lot of fun but I have to pick carefully how I use mana (I'm human as well so no extras there)
I have a faerie wizard that 10K and yet to buy x2 innates because I found better ways to get mana

It all depends

David

[Gordon]

Archmage is 550pts. No way I'd buy it before 5.250 - I reckon it's much better to spend those points on mana reductions or regen. Mana Vortex at 600pts is better - 12 mana an hour throughout the day.

What do you cast your magic on? I keep a tally as my wizard and I'm generally casting a big spell once in a while, but levels 1-6 most of the day. 1 mana off everything and some half-cost castings therefore has a massive impact on what I'm able to keep doing all day.

Stuart

That's interesting as it's in the 1500-3k spend of the last wizard I broke T:9 with, the one I am currently playing up and pretty sure it was in Claudia's spend too. I look at it as two casting levels I'm going to buy anyway so the total cost is 550 the real cost of the mana is more likely 450.

Also had good success with post Arch Mage Applications including mana reductions, med rate and other such.

I can see Vortex being good for many wizards, just not bought and played with it myself yet.

We are also forgetting Dragons Breath Stage 1 in all of this too.

[Stuart]

I reckon The Dragon's Breath is worth it for a non-grey wizard. I'll regularly go for hours without casting a grey spell, but it's probably good for triggering fireblast chains or similar.

Stuart

[Ryan]

I've got Slushy a Snowman High Wizard in 180 by 1500 (34 on tables / Draconic advocate / extra level etc.) and not really moved beyond that from 1500 to 3500 however I hit the reductions and innates hard so that mana goes a disgustingly long way now. I've got stuff in place that my next buy is archmage to 8th which gives me another 80 mana total. I'd hope that by 10K I'll have 300 mana and probably 200 mana in innates (not pooling - hate it).

As Louis I am base rogue so early doors was like 70 mana, by 3K I'd got to 130 and now at 6000pts It's around 180 mana with 3 blocks of 60 Mana recouperation in my spend so actually more like 360 but I am essentially a first class wizard now in every way that counts.

Hate the wizard Vessel pool thing, when comparing 12 Handbook mana to 2 Total Heals you will always feel short changed to the tune of 600 pts

[BBB]

Well, if you're me, going by my Sylphs spend...

1,500 - 75 mana

3,000 - 75 mana (Yep I did't buy any mana until post Tb10)

7500 - 127 mana

So I'm guessing twice that amount as a minimum?

It really depends on how you use your mana. In this instance all my "get outs" are racial so no mana needed. In 7,000pts as a Blue "Wizard" I've cast Blink just twice both pre 250pts, my go to spell costs 1 mana and I have some (not optimal) mana regen.

BBB

[Stuart]

Hate the wizard Vessel pool thing, when comparing 12 Handbook mana to 2 Total Heals you will always feel short changed to the tune of 600 pts

That's because Vessel of the Spirits is too cheap but Magical Nexus is about right. Chuck book mage into the mix and you're laughing.

S

[dnsmantra]

I'm with Stuart here. Ways to get mana back, cost reductions or similar pay dividends. Innates of things you cast a lot, if they're a basic spell are solid. I've never tended to value the raw power classes much. They're okay, but X/hour or good reductions always seem better bang for the buck.

Huw

[BBB]

That's because Vessel of the Spirits is too cheap but Magical Nexus is about right. Chuck book mage into the mix and you're laughing.

S

I've only tried Vortex once as a Chromatic Wizard [Anath Avatar Spend] and it was surprisingly useful (don't know quite why I was surprised having got so much use out of Vessel as Clive). I'd guess shied away from getting it due to comparing it to Vessel. Its definitely now on Anath's list to buy as he specialises in casting small mana basic spells, alas I discovered this right after buying first two levels of Archmage for some cheap extra mana... Sadtimes

BBB

[Patch]

interesting,

Full disclosure its for Drake I'm second class and have limited first class buy as... I am not a fan of mana pooling, even more so as an Ivory drave gets an at will 6MP glyph, seems like that wouldn't work. I'm looking at operating at around 160 mana with Ivory Advocate, but not considered mana recovery as an option.

lots of food for thought.

Patch

[Netheril]

interesting,

Full disclosure its for Drake I'm second class and have limited first class buy as... I am not a fan of mana pooling, even more so as an Ivory drave gets an at will 6MP glyph, seems like that wouldn't work. I'm looking at operating at around 160 mana with Ivory Advocate, but not considered mana recovery as an option.

lots of food for thought.

Patch

Am firmly in the mana recovery, and specialising in your most cast glyphs camp too. Is what I did for most of my time playing Sirac.

As Drake, should definitely look at ways of either reducing the mana cost of ivory warriors. Extending the duration. Or making innates dirt cheap to buy. Cast 3 get 1 free, etc. Like everything, the more restrictions, the more you can achieve there. Elemental lord definitely helps a lot.

Pooling, I think has probably had its day. But if go that route, just make traitors shield and mobility count as 1/6 levels for pooling calculations, so still get something for them.

Cheers,

Sean

[Patch]

Am firmly in the mana recovery, and specialising in your most cast glyphs camp too. Is what I did for most of my time playing Sirac.

As Drake, should definitely look at ways of either reducing the mana cost of ivory warriors. Extending the duration. Or making innates dirt cheap to buy. Cast 3 get 1 free, etc. Like everything, the more restrictions, the more you can achieve there. Elemental lord definitely helps a lot.

Pooling, I think has probably had its day. But if go that route, just make traitors shield and mobility count as 1/6 levels for pooling calculations, so still get something for them.

Cheers,

Sean

To be fair my racial IW innates last 12 hours, I get extra levels of innates per ally and can stack 12, they also give me MAC (and eventually 9/3) so I'm in a pretty good place IW wise (they have to be racial so they cost a bunch at the moment, but that is also in progress...)

My mana is more about maximizing damage reductions... which are currently a little slack as I have invested in other bits

Patch

[Netheril]

To be fair my racial IW innates last 12 hours, I get extra levels of innates per ally and can stack 12, they also give me MAC (and eventually 9/3) so I'm in a pretty good place IW wise (they have to be racial so they cost a bunch at the moment, but that is also in progress...)

My mana is more about maximizing damage reductions... which are currently a little slack as I have invested in other bits

Patch

Then using a 1st class slot for advocacy you will never regret! It's the best reduction around, and much harder to get for any other colour.

Advocacy means 1 mana replenish, and specialise in that so heals more, or heals 6/6 as required.

Maybe a 1st class slot on apprentice, and get some of my non standards!?

Rufus' Ivory Bastion by itself is worth that. Tempo on all your spells (8 mana so 5 with advocacy, must have tempo of battle). And I have some decent damage reduction spells.

Cheers,

Sean

[whiteknight]

My wizard only has 127 mana but regens 1/5 which means I very rarely run out on cave events.

Rich

[Patch]

Then using a 1st class slot for advocacy you will never regret! It's the best reduction around, and much harder to get for any other colour.

Advocacy means 1 mana replenish, and specialise in that so heals more, or heals 6/6 as required.

Maybe a 1st class slot on apprentice, and get some of my non standards!?

Rufus' Ivory Bastion by itself is worth that. Tempo on all your spells (8 mana so 5 with advocacy, must have tempo of battle). And I have some decent damage reduction spells.

Cheers,

Sean

Shameless plug!

to be fair my DR is pretty solid -12pts, 1 hour rockskins, 50% reductions, chuck in a know foe and then I need to cover off the fractional as Altor is only sharp (and have sharp covered anyway) its just all mana mana mana... hence the question about mana lol

Patch