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Stuart
I think this is right, though it might be from En-Garde 3.0:

"Power-Masters may learn abilities available to either Monks or Wizards [both 2nd class], plus any ability specifically listed for “Power Masters” . Power-Masters may never acquire specialist glyphs, a 2nd Colour, or neuronic abilities. They are considered to be in both the warrior and wizard brackets.
They pay an additional 50% on Wizard abilities – they no longer have to alternate abilities between wizard and monk. Additionally they may buy magical abilities as a Warlock without having to pay the 50% extra that they do on Wizards abilities."

1. Does the last bit mean "they also buy as warlock from the wizard's grimoire", or does it mean "those abilities that they can buy as wizard that a warlock can buy do not cost the additional 50%"?

2. Given warlocks now get Chosen of the Dragon as a specialist, can a powermaster buy it on T:1 for 40 pts in the same way they can buy monk specialists (e.g. forearm parry) on T:1 for 40pts?

Thanks

Stuart
DavidFisher
1. second bit I think - this is how I have played it but happy to be wrong
2. yes

Forearm parry is listed as a specialist for them so they can get it (unlike duellists)
Chosen of the dragon can be bought from the "buy as warlock" bit

I have both of these abilities as my powermaster signed on my card

David
soulblood
I also have a question about power master byas:

can they buy innates??

I was wondering as their buy as wiz / warlock crossover whether that also inclused the purchase of these and if they can is it 12 pts/mana [as warlock] for offensive stuff and 14 pts/mana [wiz + 50%] for useful stuff.

Way more expensive than the extra mana, but potentially importants after you have them purchased.

Matt
LucyH
QUOTE(Stuart @ Dec 16 2008, 11:35 AM) *
I think this is right, though it might be from En-Garde 3.0:

"Power-Masters may learn abilities available to either Monks or Wizards [both 2nd class], plus any ability specifically listed for “Power Masters” . Power-Masters may never acquire specialist glyphs, a 2nd Colour, or neuronic abilities. They are considered to be in both the warrior and wizard brackets.
They pay an additional 50% on Wizard abilities – they no longer have to alternate abilities between wizard and monk. Additionally they may buy magical abilities as a Warlock without having to pay the 50% extra that they do on Wizards abilities."

1. Does the last bit mean "they also buy as warlock from the wizard's grimoire", or does it mean "those abilities that they can buy as wizard that a warlock can buy do not cost the additional 50%"?

2. Given warlocks now get Chosen of the Dragon as a specialist, can a powermaster buy it on T:1 for 40 pts in the same way they can buy monk specialists (e.g. forearm parry) on T:1 for 40pts?

Thanks

Stuart


I would read that as:

They buy as:
- 1st class power master
- 2nd class monk
- 2nd class warlock
- 2nd class wizard (at 150% of the published cost).

With the restriction on these that they may not buy:
- Second colour
- Specialist Glyphs
- Neuronics

By that logic they can but innates at either the warlock cost (12 pts/mana) or wizard +50% (14pts/mana), but clearly they would be crazy to go for the second option.

Sometimes life would be simpler if it was written with more bullet points.

Lucy
Stuart
QUOTE(LucyH @ Dec 16 2008, 03:24 PM) *
Sometimes life would be simpler if it was written with more bullet points.

Lucy


That speaks volumes about what sort of person you are, Lucy. wink.gif

Stuart
mattway
Well just reading that Stuart, the important word is additionally. The structure of the way this is written allows them A) to buy magical abilities as wizard at 50% extra, and cool.gif to additionally buy as warlock.

Matt (who has a degree in philosophy and linguistic pickyness)
LucyH
QUOTE(mattway @ Dec 17 2008, 10:09 AM) *
Well just reading that Stuart, the important word is additionally. The structure of the way this is written allows them A) to buy magical abilities as wizard at 50% extra, and cool.gif to additionally buy as warlock.

Matt (who has a degree in philosophy and linguistic pickyness)


Now you see I've always assumed that the rulebooks have been written by people who started off with a list of things to add to class descriptions/abilities, but felt that they had to put it into paragraphs and occasionally vary the wording to make it more interesting to read.

This has then led, mumblety years later to someone who is looking for a loophole going "this description says 'additionally' and that one says 'and also', therefore this restriction is different", whereas in fact they are the same, but the author was running out of synonyms for "as well as".

More bullet points in this case would mean less blaggy interpretations and fewer e-group arguments.

Lucy (Who has a degee in English and linguistic pickyness)

Webof
- Yeah i have to agree bullet points are the way forward.

- I haven't read the latest handbook much but lists of abilities > wall o'txt.

David ( who has no qualifications to do with anything useful )
mattway
QUOTE(LucyH @ Dec 17 2008, 10:31 AM) *
Now you see I've always assumed that the rulebooks have been written by people who started off with a list of things to add to class descriptions/abilities, but felt that they had to put it into paragraphs and occasionally vary the wording to make it more interesting to read.

This has then led, mumblety years later to someone who is looking for a loophole going "this description says 'additionally' and that one says 'and also', therefore this restriction is different", whereas in fact they are the same, but the author was running out of synonyms for "as well as".

More bullet points in this case would mean less blaggy interpretations and fewer e-group arguments.

Lucy (Who has a degee in English and linguistic pickyness)


Ya probably not wrong there lucy, but surely it is our job as players to abuse the loopholes wherever we find them... er... I mean bring them to the attention of the GSM immediately for clarification. I have to say I think MCC has been pretty sharp on this stuff, but maybe that's cos he was training in spotting and taking advantage of loopholes for years with the rest of us before becoming GSM. tongue.gif

Lists would add clarity however.

Matt (who soon discover'd that philosophy degrees are useful for nothing outside of sounding clever in the pub)
MarkCox
Not sure what version people are looking at the version I have has has the buy as bullet pointed.

Mark
JulianW
QUOTE(MarkCox @ Dec 17 2008, 05:44 PM) *
Not sure what version people are looking at the version I have has has the buy as bullet pointed.

Mark


Is that the version you just edited on the screen?

Julian
MarkCox
QUOTE(JulianW @ Dec 17 2008, 05:53 PM) *
Is that the version you just edited on the screen?

Julian



Nope- Ian as he has been updating the books has been editing the buy as into bullet points, or have i missed something?
Maybe your using the old orange Supplement? But my 1st print En Guard! has the [buffed] buy as bullet pointed.

Mark
soulblood
QUOTE(MarkCox @ Dec 17 2008, 06:10 PM) *
Maybe your using the old orange Supplement? But my 1st print En Guard! has the [buffed] buy as bullet pointed.

Mark


Yep En Garge! is bullet pointed, but one bullet point refers back to another, thus open to confusion.

* powere masters may buy abilities as per 2nd class wizard but pay an additional 50% on wizard abilities.

nice and clear

then

* power masters may buy abilites as per 2nd class warlocks without having to pay the aditional 50% they do on wizard abilities.

now this is where confusion may arise, form small malitia bregades and atempt a coup upon logic.

it could mean either

1 ) if it ways warlock its yours, the elemental status' elemental knight etc.
2 ) if its wizardly but not so wizardly that warlocks can get it then you shouldn't have to pay through the nose for it.

I hope number 1 is the intention, your 'locky but not pure 'locky, a tendancy to the more whack less zap style, but by making a second reference to the 50% points tax it opens up the second interpretation.

Matt
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