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RichardCraig
Mercenaries over the years seem to have made a step through from heroes to immortals and I'm not sure that it is a good thing.

Back in the 'old days' when you died it was actually a bit of a struggle to find somebody to res you, and that was if you were goodly and had a spirit, any other combo and it was near on impossible.

If your body was left behind, that was pretty much it unless you had enough mates to do a dungeon the next week to get your body back.

Then overtime the number of people who could res increased, and there were people who could deal with evil and spiritless.

the next stage of evolution was that they could do it from range regardless of the impediment that might be stopping them, dissolved in acid? No problems!

Eventually people ran out of res chance, if you were sensible you had rebirth and came back at 8th as a standard class/race if you had got past 1000pts and were lucky you might get a non standard race class combo.

If you died in a particularly great way, were loads of points or did it on a myths you would get something a bit special.

But over time the gates of blue heaven have been flung open, died a perm death? Don't worry have 2 base classes and some other stuff.

These started with points modifiers to balance the fact that they were the equivalent of 100s or 1000s of points worth of abilities.

But then these have drifted away and the amount of points that you can come back at has increased so the loss in points is almost balanced out by the increase in abilities.

So now we have found ourselves in a point where death really doesn't mean anything.

Now some of these changes I am in favour of, I think people getting ressed quickly is a good thing, and I think everybody else does too.

But I do think that death should be a bit of a draw back to it over time!

I'm not sure what the solution is? Or if there is even one?

I was thinking that a good solution would be that when you rebirthed you just came back as somebody else. You can get all the benefits of your snacky rebirth and extra points.

A good example is Will perming recently, the high priest sacrifices himself for the greater good - Excellent! Does anybody really care? Nope. As they know he will be back in 2 weeks with a blue card.

Anyway my thoughts, discuss!

ChrisAndrews
I agree. It's currently a bit too much like Hotblack Desiato spending a year dead for tax reasons.

I'd say that making an incentive to perm-perm would be good. Some extra ISP but you can't carry over grulls/unread teaching scrolls. That way we get a bigger turn over of characters but people can hang onto them if they want. Maybe make Crypt & Obits. only apply to proper perming. Maybe increase the benefit they give slightly to counteract the fact you can't rebirth with 100k of teaching scrolls, magic armour and shield etc.

Chris
KatSables
QUOTE(RichardCraig @ Jun 21 2017, 12:01 PM) *
Mercenaries over the years seem to have made a step through from heroes to immortals and I'm not sure that it is a good thing.

Back in the 'old days' when you died it was actually a bit of a struggle to find somebody to res you, and that was if you were goodly and had a spirit, any other combo and it was near on impossible.

If your body was left behind, that was pretty much it unless you had enough mates to do a dungeon the next week to get your body back.

Then overtime the number of people who could res increased, and there were people who could deal with evil and spiritless.

the next stage of evolution was that they could do it from range regardless of the impediment that might be stopping them, dissolved in acid? No problems!

Eventually people ran out of res chance, if you were sensible you had rebirth and came back at 8th as a standard class/race if you had got past 1000pts and were lucky you might get a non standard race class combo.

If you died in a particularly great way, were loads of points or did it on a myths you would get something a bit special.

But over time the gates of blue heaven have been flung open, died a perm death? Don't worry have 2 base classes and some other stuff.

These started with points modifiers to balance the fact that they were the equivalent of 100s or 1000s of points worth of abilities.

But then these have drifted away and the amount of points that you can come back at has increased so the loss in points is almost balanced out by the increase in abilities.

So now we have found ourselves in a point where death really doesn't mean anything.

Now some of these changes I am in favour of, I think people getting ressed quickly is a good thing, and I think everybody else does too.

But I do think that death should be a bit of a draw back to it over time!

I'm not sure what the solution is? Or if there is even one?

I was thinking that a good solution would be that when you rebirthed you just came back as somebody else. You can get all the benefits of your snacky rebirth and extra points.

A good example is Will perming recently, the high priest sacrifices himself for the greater good - Excellent! Does anybody really care? Nope. As they know he will be back in 2 weeks with a blue card.

Anyway my thoughts, discuss!


You have far too much free time!!
RichardCraig
Typing quickly is a life skill.
BBB
Lol,

Funnily enough I still roleplay my oldest character (Anath) as a complete coward from the days when there was no evil res. You died: You Rebirthed that was it, no res. So just avoid dying.

I even have a character who is immune to Rebirth... (Although he is unlikely to perm now given the rarity with which I play him).

To be fair some people do play characters that sort of way whereby they rebirth as something different.

Personally I've never understood that or sacrificing characters for something new. To me if you want to play something different start something up from scratch. Every single rebirth I have had has always been the same class and the same race (bar rebirth benefits).

An interesting idea but I see some flaws with it:

Snacky Rebirths were to given to reward good roleplay and encourage people not to worry about perming their favourite character.

If you remove that incentive people would inevitably be less willing to risk their favourite characters that way IF Perm Death meant losing that character forever.

Perhaps if you chose to come back as something unrelated to your original character maybe you get some other bonus?

Its a cool choice to make but it would be step backwards to enforce it and could result in people just being less interested in playing.

Remember the problem of people who basically played only one character then being forced to wait six months for a rebirth? They just stopped playing anything for those six months, which is not a good financial model for the caves...

BBB
Gordon
A large amount of people out there able to cast restore life and similar is a good thing, it does lead to diversity in the character choices and concepts that get played.

Obscure or restricted resses being freely available, less so. If you need a Magical & Neuronic restore life that work on the evilly aligned it should be damn tricky to come back and you shouldn't expect to be randomly ressed on or off dungeon unless working/playing in tandem with someone who can do that.

The current “rebirth” system is now better for ISP for rebirths not being related to the dungeon you died on, where the system was open to both abuse and generated cliques. I and other club members lobbied hard for this change. However while a positive step we have moved to a point where rebirths and powerful ones at that are common place over the rarer and more epic nature of them.

However as powerful as they can be, as unbalancing and advantageous they are for one player compared to Mr or Mrs tables spent green card and no matter how much they may make me raise an eyebrow as a ref or sulk quietly or otherwise as a player it doesn’t really matter and it often means if that character is playing the “team” game they can more than pull their weight. I have only two or three rebirths from 20+ years that get close to today’s more commonly seen rebirths, one was my first every character at about 6k when the 10k barrier had only been breached about 18 months earlier, the second more recently at around 9k and the third being from a myths in 1999 where my story ended even though I was on 90%.

I like to think we play this game, enjoy this hobby to have fun, to escape, push boundaries and shape a game world we have been invested in for longer than many personal relationships last. I want to keep playing, being part of the club and venturing into Labyrinthia and beyond and if that means someone has two 1st classes, two 1st races, a host of other abilities and no threshold modifier so what, one day it might be me, one day it might be you. One thing is for sure if it were to stop it won’t be nay of us.

Have we become blasé about character death and rebirth, sadly yes. This isn't true for all players and all characters but the wheel spins superfast and characters can come back before people even know they've died.

However there are things to consider from both a club and business point of view. People like their characters, often become attached to them and want to keep playing them even after death.

The current attitude has also shifted things "it's only Vitae" is a standard refrain but at the same time this means people are potentially more willing to lose res chance through roleplay, supreme sacrifice, taking one for the team/greater good etc. and while the act is possibly devalued from where it was depending on where you sit on the argument it does mean that events have shifted generally in a positive tone over the years with more willing to “get things done” than in the past.

The other positive to add is the continuity and depth of knowledge, history, lore etc. they can add. For some players and/or characters they want more than just to interact with the characters or monsters in front of them, you know the type happy to talk for more than 2 minutes, and the effort that referees and content creators put in to enrich the game world actually has a longer term impact and value when characters aren’t written off and with them their memories, experiences etc.

There were people who were serial rebithers, whose character class race & alignment changed every time the wheel spun most often influenced by how they had died or what had claimed their final death. While often when perming without an ISP rebirth people would just put the character away and never play them again due to loss of status, the ability to play with their IC peer group or friends.

You want to slow things down, then reinstate a period before people return however that is a barrier to peoples involvement In the club especially in their early part of their involvement.

You could write a CC and try to make it happen.

You could volunteer to put a “hold” period on any of your own characters who rebirth, play with self-imposed threshold modifiers, decide to never come back as the same “character”.

Perhaps a new campaign “tough on blasé, tough on the causes of blasé” needs to be implemented, we could always start with the 3 day smile.gif
dnsmantra
I think ease of access to res, for everyone, is a good thing. It means people spend less time bored on the floor, people generally have more fun and it is a huge discouragement to cheating/blagging. If you know you'll die and get res'd folks are more likely to get involved, engage and be less likely to 'drop their glasses' or similar.

NS rebirths are probably, on balance, too powerful in the current clime (and in a small number of cases, mostly high level chars perming, far too powerful) but it is a pretty small issue. There are certainly bigger fish to fry in terms of changing things.

I think the difference for me is death vs perm death. Death is just like spending a fate point in tabletop - not a big deal, something bad happened, you get back up and carry on. Perm death *should* probably feel more important and more impactful, though it doesn't particularly at present.

I'm not sure what the fix is, or even if there is one. Limitation on rebirth turn-around time makes sense IC, but is bad for the club OOC.

Huw
Ryan
Is it safe to assume in the current climate anyone with a modifier on their rebirth is now safe to ignore it?
duncanmatthias
No....

Current rebirths have something different, tabling i.e warrior gains a level of wizard per table stating at table 3.

It could be possible to change your rebirth to this equivalent via points app

Rgds

Duncan
RichardCraig
As a devils advocate I would say that level by table isn't a restriction.

You come back at 1000pts and so you get all of the levels..

bendy
QUOTE(RichardCraig @ Jun 21 2017, 03:14 PM) *
As a devils advocate I would say that level by table isn't a restriction.

You come back at 1000pts and so you get all of the levels..


If table 9 was say 5000 pts the rebirths probably wouldn't be seen to be so overpowered but getting level 8 of something at table 9 does seem to make you a disproportionately hard. It seems that the tables ie 1-12 aren't really reflective of the amount of points people have as no longer is table 12 a Wow thing.
dnsmantra
QUOTE(RichardCraig @ Jun 21 2017, 03:14 PM) *
As a devils advocate I would say that level by table isn't a restriction.

You come back at 1000pts and so you get all of the levels..


A lot of them start the scaling at later tables - so T3/4 so you don't get everything until T10/11. You raise a valid point, but there is at least better scaling now. Post T12/10k things are pretty much broken anyway, so it becomes less relevant.

Huw
Abel
QUOTE(RichardCraig @ Jun 21 2017, 03:14 PM) *
As a devils advocate I would say that level by table isn't a restriction.

You come back at 1000pts and so you get all of the levels..

You'd have to be at lease 3k with a crypt or 5250 with all survivals to get back at 1k points. And most rebirths now start at table 4 and end on table 11 so you you need to get back to your points to have full advantage. After all its a restriction on something that "should" be a reward for long play and hopefully a death that meant something/was cool.

QUOTE(bendy @ Jun 21 2017, 03:47 PM) *
If table 9 was say 5000 pts the rebirths probably wouldn't be seen to be so overpowered but getting level 8 of something at table 9 does seem to make you a disproportionately hard. It seems that the tables ie 1-12 aren't really reflective of the amount of points people have as no longer is table 12 a Wow thing.


As someone who has played for over 20 years and only has one character to reach table twelve, I'd like to say it was very much a wow thing for me still.
RichardCraig
I'm not saying that people shouldn't get rebirths, I've got enough of them so that would be hipocritical.

I was pointing out that getting things by table is not as hard as restriction as a 500pt modifier either short or long term. I quite liked the % of your points per table.

But to get on track - It's just that death doesn't really feel very epic these days when you're guaranteed to pop back in a week or two.

fatteacher
QUOTE(RichardCraig @ Jun 21 2017, 04:50 PM) *
I'm not saying that people shouldn't get rebirths, I've got enough of them so that would be hipocritical.

I was pointing out that getting things by table is not as hard as restriction as a 500pt modifier either short or long term. I quite liked the % of your points per table.

But to get on track - It's just that death doesn't really feel very epic these days when you're guaranteed to pop back in a week or two.

How about, for people who have played long enough to not have a wow factor with T12 or have dozens of rebirths, you can choose to role 2D6 and snake-eyes true perms you? No benefits from anything else though
Padallen
I would hate to go back to the 6 month thing it chased at a lot of people away from the caves!!

I very often self impose restrictions on my characters when they die!!
daork
For me the balance would just be seeing more impact game world wise from perm death. If perm killing your highest point character had a noticeable long term effect on the world then it would feel more epic and people would probably be more inclined to do it. At current there is very little scope for that unless it is part of a campaign or large event such as an extended length or final dawn.
Padallen
QUOTE(daork @ Jun 21 2017, 07:58 PM) *
For me the balance would just be seeing more impact game world wise from perm death. If perm killing your highest point character had a noticeable long term effect on the world then it would feel more epic and people would probably be more inclined to do it. At current there is very little scope for that unless it is part of a campaign or large event such as an extended length or final dawn.

Even then there isn't, unless the ref has been staching WP or CP and didn't know what to do with them.
RichardCraig
Thats quite a good idea - perhaps an influx of XCPs per 1000pts as the death of a legend triggers a cataclysmic effect for either good or for ill...
duncanmatthias
With the longer you choose for your rebirth to take the longer it stays in effect.....
Ryan
QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Jun 22 2017, 10:48 AM) *
With the longer you choose for your rebirth to take the longer it stays in effect.....


This is genius - I really quite like it!
giles
I'm not convinced death ever really meant anything - death isn't very epic (arguably it never has been) - it's just the bit where you're not role-playing/not playing - it's a passive thing.
I've always felt that 'I die to solve this problem' is a bit of a cop out - whether you've run out of vitae or not.
I think - perm death = big effect, would soon be seen as blase if it became more commonplace - a number of people have done it before via points app or similar so it's not as if it can't be done. I also think you'd very soon have tit for tat type stuff: 'I die as Broomo the god of belt wardings - all belt wardings become mantic,' a week later, 'I die as Ponch goddess of removing belt wardings - no belt wardings for a year' etc.

Giles.
Abel
To be fair, death feels epic when it means something to the people involved. This tends to effect people in groups that have done a long campaign and have gotten immersed in others rp and one one person goes if will effect in a deep way if the immersion was good enough. I guess some people who feel death doesn't mean anything are usually falling into two categories

1 - Don't know the person who died perm (or similar) and don't care enough to feel anything

2 - Don't get immersed into rp because they are just here to hit people with sticks, so generally don't care

I know, on more than a couple of occasions I have been emotionally moved by the perm death of fellow player I have gotten to know, while others have stood around having a giggle because they don't care. But in the end some people care, some care less, it's the game we are in.

If you don't care enough to feel something the first time around, why change it to something else that will just leave you cold the second time around. Character death is what it is and for me has always felt the same, dependant on how much my character knew the character who died.
BBB
QUOTE(giles @ Jun 22 2017, 11:26 AM) *
'I die as Ponch goddess of removing belt wardings - no belt wardings for a year' etc.

Giles.


Tell me more about this faith... wink.gif

BBB
OxMatt
I resemble this thread.

But actually, I agree with Richard. I think perm death should mean something more. I don't think the time limit should be extended, because people like me (one character wonders) simply won't play during that time. But I'd be happy with it being much much more difficult to get a high level rebirth, and just having to start up from much lower level points.

Please note I am not unilaterally disarming, Son of.... smile.gif

Matt
JulianW
A contraversial thought, but what if there were no rebirths?

You perm die as a character - well, time to start a new one then.

That's how it works in almost every tabletop rpg. Even in Paranoia you eventually run out of clones.

Julian
BBB
QUOTE(JulianW @ Jun 22 2017, 07:27 PM) *
A contraversial thought, but what if there were no rebirths?

You perm die as a character - well, time to start a new one then.

That's how it works in almost every tabletop rpg. Even in Paranoia you eventually run out of clones.

Julian


People would do what they did before being able to buy rebirth*: Start up clone characters without the memories...

Its also worth remembering some people invest quite a bit of cash and time in characters they really like playing and I don't mean the cost of dungeons.

Character specific bits of Costume, Props, Points Apps et cetera that take time and money to put together which would be mostly wasted.

(That said Personally I generally have a Tb10 Rule regards character specific costume: IF they make it that far then they must have a specific costume)

*Back when making it to 8th Level was really an achievement AND when Rebirth was an asterisked ability... You could buy it multiple times so if you didn't make it back up to 8th you could kick in a nother clone paranoia style with memories backed up form the original perm death as it were.

BBB
Benson
I also think these ideas are awesome, plenty of interesting legs to them.

It is a difficult subject to approach, I would like to share that being on the receiving end
of the old days and not getting a rebirth sucked all jokes aside I thought I died in a cool way,
I'm not that kind of person to contest and just let it go. I remember it did squash my enthusiasm for the caves
for a while.

R

QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Jun 22 2017, 10:48 AM) *
With the longer you choose for your rebirth to take the longer it stays in effect.....

giles
QUOTE(JulianW @ Jun 22 2017, 07:27 PM) *
A contraversial thought, but what if there were no rebirths?

You perm die as a character - well, time to start a new one then.

That's how it works in almost every tabletop rpg. Even in Paranoia you eventually run out of clones.

Julian


Whilst I like the idea - I'm not sure it would not cause more difficulties - eg. if a ref overstats and your character dies, or a monster overplays their hits - it's not the end of the world, but if your favourite character of some 20 years perms as a result?
There are solutions, but also I think it might lead to more complaints, even aside from the costs - ie. in most tabletop it doesn't cost you money to advance your character - there is less of an economic investment, aside from the emotional etc.
Possibly as a halfway - no non standard rebirths - ie. you die, you can keep the memories but not gain any snacky extra ISP powers/races/classes etc. - how the original samurai rebirth worked.

Giles.
gormaden
Labyrinthe IC death is so meh. There's no drama, no tears, no RP.
Re the economic investment argument - the investment is in the role-play, the well written adventures and the experience surely?
And with a that a dramatic or even shitty death is part of the characters legacy.
Not the numbers on a green card.




duncanmatthias
QUOTE(gormaden @ Jun 23 2017, 11:40 AM) *
Labyrinthe IC death is so meh. There's no drama, no tears, no RP.


My opinion is that is a huge sweeping statement, that is factually incorrect.

Rgds

Duncan
Nibs
I've only ever had 1 non-standard rebirth and even that was just half elf warlock. I still play with no plan for rebirth beyond buying it. I still play to live unless the character is the self-sacrificing type.

I think death used to mean more because everything meant more. Getting to 8th was an achievement. Each new table reached was an achievement. Frankly even getting rezzed was an achievement. I think it worked back then just because it was the norm. You didn't get overly attached to characters because they died. Those that did manage to survive to reach table 3 or so really were special and so the special bonds formed and so their deaths meant more to those with whom they had these bonds.

As time went on rezzing became more common and so death meant less. The concept of throwing vitae at a problem or "it's only vitae" simpy didn't exist. Crowds used to form in the tavern area to watch a rez. They were an event in and of themselves. Now, even with the 5 minute ritual, they are so commonplace it's no more special than being hit with a quad (maybe a seven?). Rather than being gratefull your mates managed to get you a rez, you're now disappointed if they don't. I mean, these days, how can you not be rezzed?!

I'm not saying either time period was/is better or worse. Things change. It ain't £15 for all day any more. Costumes cost more than £20 for a full get-up. Weapons, props, makeup, armour: As everything has improved in quality (which is good!) so they have increased in price (which is to be expected). And so my first characters have all been things with very low price points to start. When I get around to buying full plate and chain for a character, yes, I'm going want them to be around for a while as I'll be several hundred pounds down before I even start.
BBB
QUOTE(gormaden @ Jun 23 2017, 11:40 AM) *
Labyrinthe IC death is so meh. There's no drama, no tears, no RP.

QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Jun 23 2017, 11:56 AM) *
My opinion is that is a huge sweeping statement, that is factually incorrect.

Rgds

Duncan


+1 ~ Yep, bad generalisation. It is true that deaths on an average caves dungeon tend not to have the intensity of those on a Myths / extended length (I have been reduced to tears by a great IC death on a Myths.) but that is just the level of IC'ness full stop on Double length due to constraints of timing mainly.

QUOTE(gormaden @ Jun 23 2017, 11:40 AM) *
Re the economic investment argument - the investment is in the role-play, the well written adventures and the experience surely?


The economic investment in terms of paying for the dungeon yes but not in development of the character though stuff you do external to the dungeon, as previously mentioned (Props, Costume, Pts Apps that are specific to that character)

BBB
Dave
Make rebirth table 10?
daork
QUOTE(giles @ Jun 22 2017, 11:26 AM) *
I think - perm death = big effect, would soon be seen as blase if it became more commonplace - a number of people have done it before via points app or similar so it's not as if it can't be done. I also think you'd very soon have tit for tat type stuff: 'I die as Broomo the god of belt wardings - all belt wardings become mantic,' a week later, 'I die as Ponch goddess of removing belt wardings - no belt wardings for a year' etc.

Giles.


Although to have those sort of effects then the characters would have to have been around a long time and been influential enough to genuinely become god of X. And given the rarity of ultra level characters perming thats unlikely to be a problem.

QUOTE(gormaden @ Jun 23 2017, 11:40 AM) *
Labyrinthe IC death is so meh. There's no drama, no tears, no RP.



QUOTE(BBB @ Jun 23 2017, 01:13 PM) *
+1 ~ Yep, bad generalisation. It is true that deaths on an average caves dungeon tend not to have the intensity of those on a Myths / extended length (I have been reduced to tears by a great IC death on a Myths.) but that is just the level of IC'ness full stop on Double length due to constraints of timing mainly.
The economic investment in terms of paying for the dungeon yes but not in development of the character though stuff you do external to the dungeon, as previously mentioned (Props, Costume, Pts Apps that are specific to that character)

BBB


As someone who has witnessed deaths at multiple systems i do think it comes down to the length of the dungeon and how close the group are. While it is true that most of the deaths on a random double length mean a 10 minute break and some spirits, some of the coolest deaths and post-death fallouts for me have been on laby extended lengths. Even more so than some longer events at other systems. It also comes down to the individual player and group. Laby is well known in the LRP community for being very stat heavy and there are some players that do seemingly only play for the stats. If you want to experience to cooler RP side of the caves its about finding a group of people that also focus on that and playing with them.

QUOTE(Dave @ Jun 23 2017, 01:15 PM) *
Make rebirth table 10?


Given most of the issues are with higher level rebirths as opposed to the rebirth for the 1000 point character then unsure what this really acheives
Forefallen
I think the thing that makes rebirths the hardest, and I'm guilty of this myself is the 'I'd like to be a class that I can keep my pts apps with'.

Because most if not all of us are spending our characters to be hard, and points app around that. Lee balances it to what you are at the time and that's fine. But if you then add a second 1st class on top of that with a bunch of new points apps that interlink it can get a bit silly.

Although, I don't think it really matters, I play laby because I like the stats and having to think about what's going on at all times, rebirths can add to that, so I'm all for it.

Not then to mention that if you rebirth as a say.... 10K character, if you're getting the top 95pts a dungeon and putting on say 50 Mpts a time, that's 69 dungeons you've played. £690 minumum, and 69 days of play. I think with that kind of investment people can have a snacky rebirth.

I really like the idea of rebirths being influenced by the death etc though. Let that be a thing.

But then again, I've never had a 10K character, or a character reach #12, so my take on it may be completely off.
duncanmatthias
Seems a good time to remind everyone, you can't buy any previous points apps (pre-rebirth) unless they have been checked and signed off as appropriate to the rebirth by the GSM

Rgds

Duncan
Forefallen
QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Jun 23 2017, 05:09 PM) *
Seems a good time to remind everyone, you can't buy any previous points apps (pre-rebirth) unless they have been checked and signed off as appropriate to the rebirth by the GSM

Rgds

Duncan



wink.gif
Jack
I think that we should just scrap non-standard rebirths all together. Keep rebirth as people like to play the character but get rid of all of the bonuses from non-standard ones, maybe keep like a class / race combo that isnt normally available but get rid of all the extra stuff. I have a pretty damn snacky rebirth, I actually have quite a few and getting nice extra stuff is cool, but if I didnt get it it wouldnt effect my want to play the caves... I would be happy just to get the same character so I can keep playing as him.

This probably wouldnt help resolve Craigy's original point of death not really being important and is probably for another topic...

I will have a think and see if I can come up with some ideas.

Jc
Nibs
Snacky rebirths used to be a reward for reaching 1,000 points. Let that sink in for a moment smile.gif Reaching 1,000 points was hard enough to warrant a reward when you then permed.

Or perming on Myths, or the ref just deciding to throw ISP at your reborth because they felt you permed in a good way.

Perhaps moving them to the modern equivalent? What threshold today is as hard to reach as 1,000 points was 20 years ago? 5k? 10k? I have no point of reference to offer a suggestion. I had 1 snacky rebirth back in the day (I say "snacky", it got +3/1 life and weapon mastery O). I play a LOT less now and have a 3k character. So maybe dieing post 10k would warrant a snacky rebirth?

Maybe have the choice of coming back at whatever percentage of points or start at 4th with added grooviness?
Labyman
The big rebirths that have come out recently are 10k characters anyhow. I don't see a issues with them. It's just like a loyalty card. If you spend loads of money in boots you get loads of points, same as with BA they reward you for being a loyal customer. Non standard rebirths/survival is just a reward scheme for being a good customer.

In regards to dying I think yeah the only issue is you can have any res restriction and now days there is always someone that can res you. But that's because people have invested in helping others and reading their mates? So what's the issue it's nice people want to help other players get back up and play


Ryan
QUOTE(Labyman @ Jun 27 2017, 12:07 PM) *
The big rebirths that have come out recently are 10k characters anyhow. I don't see a issues with them. It's just like a loyalty card. If you spend loads of money in boots you get loads of points, same as with BA they reward you for being a loyal customer. Non standard rebirths/survival is just a reward scheme for being a good customer.



As much as it pains me to say it I am largely on board with this.
DaveR
Flipping the issue on its head...

Maybe reward people for living ?

Say have a bonus table for people at, say 1k, and 3k, with tiered abilities ...

eg. 1k, needs 100% - can buy XXXX, min 70% can buy YYY, etc.

Obviously exclude Blue Cards from this table ( a because they'll likely rebirth with higher points, and b - they have a ns rebirth as snacky stuff)

This would mean ref's needing to be a bit more strict with variable points - just so it's a bit harder to get to the reward table without risking yourself ...

Needs a bit of work*, but the idea's there .... doesn't make death any bigger - but does make living a bit of an achievement ...


Dave
*okay probably more than a bit ... but food for thought
Hampton
What about no snacky rebirths, Just standard rebirth with what ever % of points. but ISP's are spent on Items. like Viking being burned with all their riches etc.
when you wake up in Valhalla you have everything you need for your next life, pPocket full of Grulls, Suit or Armour or a Magic Sword and an item of 9/3 life.

its a thought




duncanmatthias
What about an ability cheaply priced on each table 8,9,10,11 and 12 that can only be bought by standard non-rebirth characters.

D
Nibs
QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Jun 27 2017, 04:08 PM) *
What about an ability cheaply priced on each table 8,9,10,11 and 12 that can only be bought by standard non-rebirth characters.

D

Possibly 1st lifers and non-non-standard rebirths? So 1st lifers and people who opted not to have a snacky rebirth?
MattJ
I'm loving the term "First Lifer".
JackFlashblade
QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Jun 27 2017, 04:08 PM) *
What about an ability cheaply priced on each table 8,9,10,11 and 12 that can only be bought by standard non-rebirth characters.

D


I like this.

C
BBB
QUOTE(DaveR @ Jun 27 2017, 03:22 PM) *
Flipping the issue on its head...

Maybe reward people for living ?

Say have a bonus table for people at, say 1k, and 3k, with tiered abilities ...

eg. 1k, needs 100% - can buy XXXX, min 70% can buy YYY, etc.

Obviously exclude Blue Cards from this table ( a because they'll likely rebirth with higher points, and b - they have a ns rebirth as snacky stuff)

This would mean ref's needing to be a bit more strict with variable points - just so it's a bit harder to get to the reward table without risking yourself ...

Needs a bit of work*, but the idea's there .... doesn't make death any bigger - but does make living a bit of an achievement ...
Dave
*okay probably more than a bit ... but food for thought


Probably Overly complicated and pretty much flies in the face of Rebirths being used to encourage people not to care about dying / perm dying....

BBB
Benson
on the subject of making death mean more.. how about penalising death? (without having to lay on the floor for 3 hours?)

I don't know what?
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