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Labyrinthe Forum > Announcments > Current System Effects
sonof
It is no longer possible to learn specialist glyphs "Off dungeon". The only ways to gain them are:

Teaching scrolls - As a reminder teaching scrolls of standard spells do NOT count towards a wizards teaching scroll cap.
With points post 8th.
From a player with the ability to teach them.

Lee
Ryan
So referees can't teach you on dungeon via NPC's or in leau of pay?
sonof
Correct young Ryan smile.gif

If you have them already then lucky you.

Lee
Will
Fair, it was a bit arbitrary...
Carlo
QUOTE(Will @ Dec 3 2014, 03:13 PM) *
Fair, it was a bit arbitrary...


Luckily I have a character that can teach handbook specialists...

I should start charging again smile.gif
Will
QUOTE(Carlo @ Dec 3 2014, 03:50 PM) *
Luckily I have a character that can teach handbook specialists...

I should start charging again smile.gif


I suspect that's the idea wink.gif
BBB
Yay Anath's teach specialists ability might actually get used.

BBB
AndyWashington
QUOTE(BBB @ Dec 3 2014, 04:16 PM) *
Yay Anath's teach specialists ability might actually get used.

BBB



You might need to upgrade your drake though!

On a related note Asta may have to upgrade to be able to teach Grey as well as Brown.

Andy
BBB
QUOTE(AndyWashington @ Dec 3 2014, 04:20 PM) *
You might need to upgrade your drake though!

On a related note Asta may have to upgrade to be able to teach Grey as well as Brown.

Andy


I'm gray mate, can teach all the basic colours wink.gif

BBB
RichardCraig
This seems a pointless change.

I'm not really sure what benefit this brings?
BBB
Encourages more people to get involved in making?

Obviously (comma) Desk staff weren't supervising enough makes wink.gif

Personally, I think all Wizards shold be given a "Baby Grimoire", they get the speciailsts of their choice that fade when they hit Tb3 (I.e. they have tio give it back to their Wizards Tower). So new players aren't immediately hobbled by not having speciailsts.

Experienced players will always know someone, a mate, guild master, whoever who can quickly sort them out for scrolls.

No doubt the Auction House will start putting up Basic Teaching Scrolls for sale or, as was happening for a while, a couple of the richer Arcarnum members just held a stock of them to give out to low level wizards.

In general I think encouraging more Trade is good (well, I would say that wouldn't smile.gif )

BBB
Stuart
I'm a bit worried this makes it all about who you know rather than what you do?

Stuart
JulianW
QUOTE(Stuart @ Dec 3 2014, 07:26 PM) *
I'm a bit worried this makes it all about who you know rather than what you do?

Stuart


That's my concern about it too.

Julian
DanM
I'm not sure when the trend of specialists + pay started but I remember it used to be either one from most refs

Allowing them to be used as dungeon pay might help

I'd expect an increased rate of picking specialists to suit the dungeon and having a massive pile of them to choose from this way.
Dave
QUOTE(Stuart @ Dec 3 2014, 08:26 PM) *
I'm a bit worried this makes it all about who you know rather than what you do?

Stuart



What it is now surely?
gormaden
Personally I would like to know why this rule has been introduced?
Lee's a pretty sensible guy so I am sure this is a case of some "wrong" in the system and not a case of "aint broke don't fix"

Rob
I share the concerns

I also understand it is currently arbitrary

I would prefer something like:

On Imperial Brief 'approved' tutors can grant ONE specialist at the coat of half the dungeon pay -

Rob
cripple
its obvious why the change has been made... its to encourage more people to join the dice rollers club.

To get more people trading between each other, and to get experienced players talking to newer players to sell/give them the basic equipment they will need.

But, will this get more grulls out of circulation and back behind the desk from makes? or will more be needed as they are horded by the richer making characters?

Grant.
sonof
Grant is pretty close. It is designed to make people talk to each other, and remove the "my mate signs glyphs on my card" which still happens.

It is, with the make rules, very easy to make teaching scrolls and doesn't cost a level. The result is wizard guild leaders might want to get more on hand for new members.

Lee
RichardCraig
but that won't be the result.

It will have no effect on regular players as somebody in the group will take the hit of 'may now teach specialists' and they will then sign on all the ones their mates need, non regular players will be searching for somebody to teach them darkness®

It brings to mind the days when you needed to be taught e skill, that was pretty tedious then and this will just be the same now..

I think all the rest of the changes are good but why this(and armour)? why try and make the 'trade' about tedious small spells, it should be about things people want to buy rather than changing the rules to force people to buy stuff.

A better choice would be to allow people to make teaching scrolls of their non standards or one uses of them, I imagine that there would be a serious trade in scrolls of one shot bedazzle or actual teaching scrolls of augustus's prismatic assault not of teaching scrolls of shatter r...
fatteacher
Ok, total idiot here! How does my character get advanced spells of his own colour above his level? Do these have to be bought as Teaching Scrolls or with points?

I foresee a new era where new players don't play wizards etc for their first few years. Learn the glyph alphabet, learn a hoard of verbals and try to find someone to pay your first X number of dungeons' Grulls for teaching scrolls! No ta! I'll play a (insert other character type here!) instead. Probably a monk as he won't need to buy armour 😜

Will
Don't forget, teaching scrolls are an isp option for reffs.
ChrisAndrews
QUOTE(fatteacher @ Dec 3 2014, 11:58 PM) *
Ok, total idiot here! How does my character get advanced spells of his own colour above his level? Do these have to be bought as Teaching Scrolls or with points?


All advanced glyphs need to be bought with teaching scrolls or points - it's not a change.

Chris
mzchief
As a new player I find the thought of getting glyphs to be a major pita. Every time I have been to the caves, past and present, the desk is near continuously tied up doing stuff for the regulars and players are either busy getting ready for their adventure or simply chatting away in their groups. Difficult to get people's time sometimes (especially when you dont know who you need to talk to).

I cant imagine there are many people who want the hassle of making a disintregrate ® teaching scroll for a low level newby.

There is a philosophy stated by the designers of WoW for example... easy to play, difficult to master. This is a good philosophy.


In Laby however, every class except wizards (I think?) gets the basic capabilities gifted to them... warriors get their weapon training, scouts get their standards and specialists for but the flick of a pen, priests can choose from a pre defined list of spirits etc etc... but wizards have to buy all of their spells. This doesn't make sense. I would understand the need for this system for non handbook spells but quite frankly I think wizards should simply have the ability to choose whichever handbook spells they are allowed to use. Or at least up to a certain level of spell.

So, in a long way round, I agree with the sentiment that I worry that this accentuates the 'who you know' problem.


If you want to encourage new players or to keep casual players, then barriers to entry should be as low as possible and setting a barrier for my new character to be able to cast plate self is just unnecessary, imo.


Just my 2c
DavidFisher
I am down on the 14th Dec, happy to bring my white / brown wizard and red warlock and make standard teaching scrolls at cost (I understand there is no other requirement bar grulls and willingness) - assumign warlocks can make offensive handbook teaching scrolls that is?

Anyway, happy to do a make for the first person that confirms. If none come forward, will do a make and happy to exchange cards for grulls (at cost) at a later date

Cheers all

David

Leo
QUOTE(mzchief @ Dec 4 2014, 11:57 AM) *
There is a philosophy stated by the designers of WoW for example... easy to play, difficult to master. This is a good philosophy.
In Laby however, every class except wizards (I think?) gets the basic capabilities gifted to them... warriors get their weapon training, scouts get their standards and specialists for but the flick of a pen, priests can choose from a pre defined list of spirits etc etc... but wizards have to buy all of their spells. This doesn't make sense. I would understand the need for this system for non handbook spells but quite frankly I think wizards should simply have the ability to choose whichever handbook spells they are allowed to use. Or at least up to a certain level of spell.


It's only specialists, you can comfortably get through a full day with only your colour's spells. Making specialists a little more special doesn't hobble you overmuch.
DanM
QUOTE(Leo @ Dec 4 2014, 02:02 PM) *
It's only specialists, you can comfortably get through a full day with only your colour's spells. Making specialists a little more special doesn't hobble you overmuch.


Try playing a jade/gold wizard with no specialists smile.gif
ChrisAndrews
QUOTE(DanM @ Dec 4 2014, 02:14 PM) *
Try playing a jade/gold wizard with no specialists smile.gif


Awesome powerup (other) wizard? Sure no Plate but giving the warriors immune to bruising or +18/6 on a low level event is pretty strong.

Or even get to AC 6 (AC 2+2 and Natural Power) and you can powerup to be immune to single on a low and have the temp life for the odd encounter doing 9pt double in B..

I think you meant "Try playing a Grey wizard with no specialists". Much harder as you only have Rope Trick and similar but I'd argue that no referee would convince a new player to play a grey wizard over a Red wizard.

Guilds will be counting for more as well - Lee already has a load of teaching scrolls for handbook scrolls in the Arcaanum stores which members can take for free.

Chris
DanM
QUOTE(ChrisAndrews @ Dec 4 2014, 02:22 PM) *
I think you meant "Try playing a Grey wizard with no specialists". Much harder as you only have Rope Trick and similar but I'd argue that no referee would convince a new player to play a grey wizard over a Red wizard.



Alright alright. There was a point, but it looks like you've made it better

BTW, I have played a grey wiz with no specialists. Was not that fun, but did get to use rope trick smile.gif
RichardCraig
You can't buy 2+2 anymore so no ac 6 for you..
ChrisAndrews
QUOTE(RichardCraig @ Dec 4 2014, 02:52 PM) *
You can't buy 2+2 anymore so no ac 6 for you..


It's free until you're 250pts!

dnsmantra
QUOTE(DanM @ Dec 4 2014, 02:14 PM) *
Try playing a jade/gold wizard with no specialists smile.gif


I have. It's pretty good tbh.

Huw
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