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Rethrisse
I've had an idea for a character in the works for a while: An AP who wakes up outside the Wraithtree one day with no memories, and gets picked up by the Church of Iron and Empire. (I don't actually know anything about the Wraithtree or the Wraithking, anybody got a link to some fluff?) Anyways, he goes pro-Empire and becomes all about Causing death for the greater good.

Here are a list of things that I'm going to try and YS - any comments, critique or suggestions would be highly welcome (I've got a few gaps in this):

General abilities

Bound Spirit of Major Causing (as per Bound Spirit of Causing, but for Cause Serious Wounds instead)
Bound Spirit of Lesser Wings (as per Bound Spirit of Causing, but for Lesser Wings of Darkness)
Bound Spirit of Hunger (as per Bound Spirit of Causing, but for Soul's Hunger. Additionally, may only be used on innate miracles, not free miracles from other Bound Spirits)

Do APs actually have to learn miracles, by the way? Or do they just buy innates of them? I only ask because I won't actually battleboard the Church of Iron and Empire unless called to a Guild Special, so I don't know how my miracles known will relate to the church's miracle list.

Tradition: Unholy Knight

Represents devotion to the Church of Iron and Empire, rather than merely sowing evil for its own sake.
Prerequisites: Wraithtree Human, LE, Unholy Knight, Ley + True Believer in Church of Iron and Empire
Blessing of the Wraithtree – additional Wraithshield 1/day (___,___)
Unholy Soldier – Any equipment held or worn gains the benefits of being both Cursed and Apprentice-Crafted, as it gains a small measure of his potential for power.
Whispers of the Wraith King – Lucky Idea 1/day (___,___) as the Wraith King whispers into the mind of the Unholy Knight

I was originally going to have the ability to use all priestly discerns at line of sight (which is a big chunk of points, but it saves keeping track and buying them individually). Would this be a good idea? Or should I leave that sort of thing to the real priests?

Multiclass: Unholy Knight

This MC is basically Woundweaver, which AP's can't normally take.

Level 1 – Gains 4 spirits/level of innates chosen at the start of the day from any Causing Tree or Sphere miracle known. The Unholy Knight now counts as being in the Priest bracket.
Level 2 – The Unholy Knight may now cast Causing miracles "through" his weapon, acting as one hand (if O class) or two hands (if B class).
Level 3 – Causing miracles may now hang indefinitely.
Level 4 – No damage casting Causing miracles (Tree and Sphere).
Level 5 – No longer needs to shout the verbals to any Causing miracle, as long as the words are spoken clearly and audibly.
Level 6 – May now cast multiple Causing miracles to hang simultaneously until discharged with a separate and distinct touch or weapon blow. This may be used with the Level 2 and 3 abilities above.
Post-6th: May buy Advanced Causing Sphere miracle innates for 10 pts/spirit, or 7 pts/spirit if either form of Devotion is owned.

I know it's kind of OP'd with the hanging miracles, but this is all stuff I'd buy later anyway so I figured I'd roll it into the one class. Any recommendations for more prereqs so I'm more likely to get it passed?

Multiclass: Death Knight

Now the real fun begins. This is about the AP fusing with his weapons and armour and making himself a walking engine of death.

Prerequisite: MC: Unholy Knight
Level 1 – Instruments of Death – All gear held or worn becomes Master-crafted for as long as it is in the Death Knight's possession.
Level 2 – Unholy Vitality: The Death Knight gains +1/1 life per level of all MC's and MR's possessed, cumulative with other sources of life increase. (Is this too silly?)
Level 3 – (Genuinely not sure what to put in here, unfortunately)
Level 4 –
Level 5 – Unstoppable: Unholy Champion returner is upgraded to a Death Knight (is this at all viable? How should I stat it?)
Level 6 – Death Has No Master: Immunity to all forms of Domination effects
Post-6th: For ___ points, may upgrade the Level 1 ability of this multi-class to make all gear held or worn beneficially inseperable from the Death Knight.

Multirace: Death Knight

Prerequisites: Tradition: Unholy Knight, Multiclass: Death Knight
Death Knights are terrifyingly powerful undead, striding across the battlefield like avatars of the cold spectre of death. This multirace functions in the same way as Multirace: Undead, but with the following adjustments:

Level 1 – Has a dismiss name of "Lesser Death Squire".
Level 2 – Has a dismiss name of "Greater Death Squire".
Level 3 – Has a dismiss name of "Lesser Death Knave".
Level 4 – Has a dismiss name of "Greater Death Knave".
Level 5 – Has a dismiss name of "Lesser Death Knight".
Level 6 – Has a dismiss name of "Greater Death Knight".
Post-6th –
Level 7 – Unholy Fury: The Death Knight is now permanently under a 25% rage vs. Magic (regarding weapons, this only applies versus pure magic weapons – physical weapons with a magical component are not affected by this)
Level 8 – The Death Knight gains fully active Spirit Sight.
Post-8th –

Death Knight Abilities:
1 – Rime Strike: May inflict Rime damage (combined cold magic and evil spirit) for 5 minutes 1/day (___*)
2 – Unholy Aura: 1/day for 5 minutes, may activate an Aura of Defense (appropriate immunities apply) that Disintegrates any weapon that strikes the Death Knight after the first blow (___*)
3 – Embody Death Knight Acts as an innate Spirit Form miracle. Additionally, the embodied Death Knight may drain levels by weapon blow (in the same fashion as a Wraith Knight) (___*)
Fuelled by Slaughter – Cured 12/12 by succcessfully striking a damaging melee blow ("Vampiric" x, in a similar fashion to Soul's Hunger) (___*)

I know I should apply for 7th and 8th separately, just throwing them in here for brevity. Not sure about the healing ability, honestly - is that going to be powerful enough at the point I acquire this? (Which will probably be Table 10-11)

All comments much appreciated, look forward to hearing feedback smile.gif
MattJ
The wraithree stuff was all written by Ian/BBB. You may want to PM him, the write up is in one of the Almanacs which can be downloaded.

Be wary of going undead as while it's cool roleplay wise you lose your ability to be ressed pretty quickly. So it'll lead to perm death until you get a res fix.

Rime strike, you'll easily get innates of dealing spiritual damage, less sure about mantic damage. I wouldn't call it Rime damage purely because adding another call complicates things. It would just be mantic damage which happens to be cold based (you need a colour, presumably white) and evil spirit.

Unholy aura innates will be expensive.

Being a warrior subclass you'll need a lot of the healing innates to make it work. Not sure if healing on dealing a weapon blow will pass or not, worth a try though.

The tradition looks fine to me. Although saying ALL equipment is apprentice crafted and cursed won't likely passed as you could start with a dozen swords and hand them out at the start of the dungeon. List the things out to avoid ambiguity. Plus if something is cursed having it apprentice crafted as well has limited use. I would probably go for anything your wielding or wearing is cursed. If you put it down though it would stop being cursed etc.

Unholy Knight looks fine to me.

Matt

Sizel
QUOTE(Rethrisse @ Jul 22 2014, 10:10 PM) *
Bound Spirit of Major Causing (as per Bound Spirit of Causing, but for Cause Serious Wounds instead)
Bound Spirit of Lesser Wings (as per Bound Spirit of Causing, but for Lesser Wings of Darkness)
Bound Spirit of Hunger (as per Bound Spirit of Causing, but for Soul's Hunger. Additionally, may only be used on innate miracles, not free miracles from other Bound Spirits)


Each of the 3 on their own doesn't seem too bad: Having all 3 feels like too much for a non-pure priest.

I think you'd be better off with something like:
1/15 mins can enhance an innate causing miracle such that it benefits from either a Soul's Hunger OR a Lesser Wings of Darkness.
At least to start with and then build on to.


QUOTE
Do APs actually have to learn miracles, by the way? Or do they just buy innates of them? I only ask because I won't actually battleboard the Church of Iron and Empire unless called to a Guild Special, so I don't know how my miracles known will relate to the church's miracle list.


They need to have a list which ties in to their churches.
Beyond that they don't need to add miracles to their list in the way priests do.

QUOTE
Tradition: Unholy Knight

Represents devotion to the Church of Iron and Empire, rather than merely sowing evil for its own sake.
Prerequisites: Wraithtree Human, LE, Unholy Knight, Ley + True Believer in Church of Iron and Empire
Blessing of the Wraithtree – additional Wraithshield 1/day (___,___)
Unholy Soldier – Any equipment held or worn gains the benefits of being both Cursed and Apprentice-Crafted, as it gains a small measure of his potential for power.
Whispers of the Wraith King – Lucky Idea 1/day (___,___) as the Wraith King whispers into the mind of the Unholy Knight


Feels too good for a tradition: Most of the published ones only seem to give a single 1/day ability for example.



QUOTE
I was originally going to have the ability to use all priestly discerns at line of sight (which is a big chunk of points, but it saves keeping track and buying them individually). Would this be a good idea? Or should I leave that sort of thing to the real priests?


I'd say leave it to the real priests personally.
Possibly go for Discern Spiritual Aura, as Paladin?

QUOTE
Multiclass: Unholy Knight

This MC is basically Woundweaver, which AP's can't normally take.


Yeah - okay.
I guess it'll be expensive for an AP though.


QUOTE
Level 4 – No damage casting Causing miracles (Tree and Sphere).

Unless it's changed, AP's don't suffer casting damage when using their innates anyway.



QUOTE
Level 2 – Unholy Vitality: The Death Knight gains +1/1 life per level of all MC's and MR's possessed, cumulative with other sources of life increase. (Is this too silly?)


Aye, too silly.
If you need extra life I'd suggest: Base Life increase from AP to Spirit Warrior and, at a latter level, Spirit Warrior to Warrior.


QUOTE
Level 5 – Unstoppable: Unholy Champion returner is upgraded to a Death Knight (is this at all viable? How should I stat it?)


Just shove whatever stats you want for it in.
Just remember that you'll pay for it...
Personally I'm more of a fan on abilities that help me stay alive, rather than ones that work only when I'm dead, but it's your call.

QUOTE
Level 6 – Death Has No Master: Immunity to all forms of Domination effects


A bit random, in that it doesn't logically tie in with the other abilities in the class.
It'll also be expensive.
Possibly a 1/day innate, or some form of "betrayal" themed ability that allows you to kill someone who has dominated you?


QUOTE
Multirace: Death Knight


I'd be cautious about being a warrior type that's immune to pretty much all healing and to being ressed.
It's not impossible to play, but I think you'll find it a huge challenge and (probably) not a lot of fun.
_
Pete
Rethrisse
QUOTE(MattJ @ Jul 23 2014, 09:55 AM) *
The wraithree stuff was all written by Ian/BBB. You may want to PM him, the write up is in one of the Almanacs which can be downloaded.

Be wary of going undead as while it's cool roleplay wise you lose your ability to be ressed pretty quickly. So it'll lead to perm death until you get a res fix.

Rime strike, you'll easily get innates of dealing spiritual damage, less sure about mantic damage. I wouldn't call it Rime damage purely because adding another call complicates things. It would just be mantic damage which happens to be cold based (you need a colour, presumably white) and evil spirit.

Unholy aura innates will be expensive.

Being a warrior subclass you'll need a lot of the healing innates to make it work. Not sure if healing on dealing a weapon blow will pass or not, worth a try though.

The tradition looks fine to me. Although saying ALL equipment is apprentice crafted and cursed won't likely passed as you could start with a dozen swords and hand them out at the start of the dungeon. List the things out to avoid ambiguity. Plus if something is cursed having it apprentice crafted as well has limited use. I would probably go for anything your wielding or wearing is cursed. If you put it down though it would stop being cursed etc.

Unholy Knight looks fine to me.

Matt


I find the idea of an AP dealing white mana damage hilarious ^^ I'll probably just go for necrotic damage instead, it's a lot simpler and more likely to get passed.
I'll probably switch out Unholy Aura for Walk Through Walls, then (as Death Knights are ethereal, I believe)
Was never too sure about the healing innates, TBH - perhaps just regen? It won't be much, but it'll be useful and easier to get through.

The idea is that it's only cursed and apprentice-crafted while he's wearing it (armour) or holding it (weapons) - if he takes it off or drops it, it loses the craftsmanship and curse. I've got the apprentice-crafted thing in there because I want it to go up to master-crafted then beneficially inseparable (at TB10/11).

Much obliged smile.gif
Rethrisse
QUOTE(Sizel @ Jul 23 2014, 06:23 PM) *
Each of the 3 on their own doesn't seem too bad: Having all 3 feels like too much for a non-pure priest.

I think you'd be better off with something like:
1/15 mins can enhance an innate causing miracle such that it benefits from either a Soul's Hunger OR a Lesser Wings of Darkness.
At least to start with and then build on to.
They need to have a list which ties in to their churches.
Beyond that they don't need to add miracles to their list in the way priests do.
Feels too good for a tradition: Most of the published ones only seem to give a single 1/day ability for example.
I'd say leave it to the real priests personally.
Possibly go for Discern Spiritual Aura, as Paladin?
Yeah - okay.
I guess it'll be expensive for an AP though.
Unless it's changed, AP's don't suffer casting damage when using their innates anyway.
Aye, too silly.
If you need extra life I'd suggest: Base Life increase from AP to Spirit Warrior and, at a latter level, Spirit Warrior to Warrior.
Just shove whatever stats you want for it in.
Just remember that you'll pay for it...
Personally I'm more of a fan on abilities that help me stay alive, rather than ones that work only when I'm dead, but it's your call.
A bit random, in that it doesn't logically tie in with the other abilities in the class.
It'll also be expensive.
Possibly a 1/day innate, or some form of "betrayal" themed ability that allows you to kill someone who has dominated you?
I'd be cautious about being a warrior type that's immune to pretty much all healing and to being ressed.
It's not impossible to play, but I think you'll find it a huge challenge and (probably) not a lot of fun.
_
Pete


The 1/15 minutes sounds much more useful, thanks smile.gif

Cheers! I'll be Church of Iron and Empire, major sphere causing, so I presume I just buy innates of the major sphere miracles that I want? (Batch-buy Cause Critical, methinks)

I was going for Discern Spiritual Aura by sight (as I can already get it at 20' standardly from the tables)

Also, I was only going to MR: Death Knight when on my last legs.
The reason I wanted the increase to base life is because I'm a Wraithtree human - even if I MC: Warrior, it'll only be a 3/1 increase in life.
DanM
QUOTE(Rethrisse @ Jul 23 2014, 08:03 PM) *
Cheers! I'll be Church of Iron and Empire, major sphere causing, so I presume I just buy innates of the major sphere miracles that I want? (Batch-buy Cause Critical, methinks)


You can't buy advanced innates. You'd need to buy 40sp worth of innates first. Unless APs are weird
BBB
QUOTE(DanM @ Jul 24 2014, 10:51 AM) *
You can't buy advanced innates. You'd need to buy 40sp worth of innates first. Unless APs are weird


Yep, either you have to have bought 40 Spirits worth of handbook innates post 8th first OR there is a proviso about either being a 6th level / in the Priest Bracket (I can't remember exactly what off the top of my head).

I also, perhaps incorrectly, recall that Paladins / Unholy Champions (and probably GK) take casting damage for casting Advanced Innates (I may be wrong though).

BBB
DanM
For the death Knight MR, I'd just write your own undead tree to go along with the standard MR.
That's what I did for Corpse

Pick 4 "innates" and the MR lets you buy them at certain levels. I wrote 2 innates, plus a curing ability and then 2 perm abilities to fill in the others.
Worked great

And you're still buying a standard MR so you can buy from t:1 if you like smile.gif
Rethrisse
QUOTE(DanM @ Jul 24 2014, 12:41 PM) *
For the death Knight MR, I'd just write your own undead tree to go along with the standard MR.
That's what I did for Corpse

Pick 4 "innates" and the MR lets you buy them at certain levels. I wrote 2 innates, plus a curing ability and then 2 perm abilities to fill in the others.
Worked great

And you're still buying a standard MR so you can buy from t:1 if you like smile.gif


That was the plan smile.gif reckon I'll get away with regen instead of a healing ability? (12/12 every hour is more useful than spending all the points on innates, methinks, plus it'll be very useful if I can upgrade that to 24/24)

So, Necrotic damage (black mana/evil spirit) for 5 minutes, Walk Through Walls, Spirit Form and the regen?

APs apparently do take casting damage for advanced innates so I'll leave that line in, but do you reckon that the line at the top of Unholy Knight "this counts as being in the priest bracket" will count towards letting me buy advanced innates? (Because I really do think it should...) I'd rather not waste the points on Spirit Warrior when I won't actually get anything out of it (already have the discerns from Discern Spiritual Aura, I'm a Wraithtree Human so my life won't go up, and it won't give me any Warrior specialists)
Rethrisse
Okay, so here's what I've got (after some re-writing):

Tradition: Unholy Knight

Represents devotion to the Church of Iron and Empire, rather than merely sowing evil for its own sake.

Prerequisites: Wraithtree Human, LE, Unholy Knight, Ley + True Believer in Church of Iron and Empire, Enhanced Discern Spiritual Aura
Blessing of the Wraithtree – additional Wraithshield 1/day (___,___)
Unholy Soldier – Any weapons held (or sheathed) or armour worn gains the benefits of being both Cursed and Apprentice-Crafted, but loses these benefits as soon as they are dropped or taken off.
Discern Spiritual Aura now goes to Line of Sight range.

Multiclass: Unholy Knight

(Like Woundweaver, which AP's can't normally take)

Level 1 – Gains 4 spirits/level of innates chosen at the start of the day from any Causing Tree or Sphere miracle known. This Multiclass counts as being in the Priest bracket.
Level 2 – The Unholy Knight may now cast Causing miracles "through" his weapon, acting as one hand (if O class) or two hands (if B class).
Level 3 – Causing miracles may now hang indefinitely.
Level 4 – No damage casting Causing miracles (Tree and Sphere).
Level 5 – No longer needs to shout the verbals to any Causing miracle, as long as the words are spoken clearly and audibly.
Level 6 – May now cast multiple Causing miracles to hang simultaneously until discharged with a separate and distinct touch or weapon blow. This may be used with the Level 2 and 3 abilities above.
Post-6th: May buy Advanced Causing Sphere miracle innates for 10 pts/spirit, or 7 pts/spirit if either form of Devotion is owned.

Multiclass: Death Knight

Fusing with weapons and armour making self a walking engine of death.
Prerequisites: Tradition: Unholy Knight, Multiclass: Unholy Knight

Level 1 – Instruments of Death – All gear held or worn becomes Master-crafted for as long as it is in the Death Knight's possession. Additionally, the Death Knight gains +1 innate PAC while wearing Master Crafted (phys-repped) armour.
Level 2 – Unnatural Power – The Death Knight gains +1 Grade of Strength (stacking to a maximum of +3)
Level 3 – 1/15 minutes, may cast an innate miracle as if benefitting from Soul's Hunger or Lesser Wings of Darkness
Level 4 – Otherworldly Resilience – 1/day while wearing Master Crafted (phys-repped) armour, may activate a physical Rockskin (___,___)
Level 5 – No enemy gains the benefit of Accuracy ("through" damage) against the Death Knight, as the line between the ending of the armour and the beginning of the Death Knight blurs (thus eliminating any weak spots to exploit).
Level 6 – Unholy Force – 1/day Knockback or Knockdown (chosen at time of using). Requires 3 grades of strength. (___,___)
Post-6th: For ___ points on Table ___, may upgrade the Level 1 ability of this multi-class to make any weapons held or armour worn beneficially inseperable from the Death Knight.

I know the level 4 may be kind of silly, but I'm still going to see if I'll get it. This class is all about being hard as nails, after all. I also wanted the level 6 to be another 1/15 minutes thing, but I highly doubt I'd get it that way.

Multirace: Death Knight

Prerequisites: Tradition: Unholy Knight, Multiclass: Death Knight
Death Knights are terrifyingly powerful undead, striding across the battlefield like avatars of the cold spectre of death. This multirace functions in the same way as Multirace: Undead, but with the following adjustments:

Levels 1-6 as per standard Undead Multirace, with undead type Death Knight (for naming purposes)
Level 7 – Unholy Fury: The Death Knight is now permanently under a 25% rage vs. Magic (regarding weapons, this only applies versus pure magic weapons – physical weapons with a magical component are not affected by this)
Level 8 – The Death Knight gains fully active Spirit Sight.

Death Knight Abilities:
1 – Necrotic Strike: May inflict Necrotic damage (combined black mana and evil spirit) for 5 minutes 1/day (___*)
2 – Freeze(t) as per Wight 1/day, which may be channeled through a weapon blow (___*)
3 – Walk Through Walls 1/day for 5 minutes as per Wraith
4 – Embody Death Knight: Acts as an innate Spirit Form miracle 1/day (___*)
Instead of innates of a healing ability, the Death Knight may purchase a permanent regeneration, at a rate of 1 TBLP and 1 Loc to the worst location every 5 minutes.

Once again, comments very welcome smile.gif
PaulM
Necrotic strike I would personally leave that out and just purchase empower weapon spiritually and then path to gain the mantic side this then becomes a perm ability. (Although I imagine spiritual damage will do for a long time)

Also unsure why a death knight would have walk through walls. So would suggest something along the lines of 1day for 5 min all sharp damaged is halved after all calculations to a minium of 1.

Go for normal freeze touch and do a separate pts app after buying x freeze touch's may now channel freeze through a weapon blow build it up it should work out cheaper.

Also the 25% reduction go for perm physical reduction and purchase mystical rages as a warrior subclass .
PaulM
Sorry also the regeneration as a heads up you will struggle to get this above 3tblp 3to each loc.

Use the freeze ability to heal yourself and seperately points app undead regeneration wink.gif

The Death Knight multiclass is going to be very expensive and has things in it that would normally be in a multirace
To give you a idea in one of my multiraces it has rockskin and +3 strength, regeneration, some damage reduction some innate PAC and that's close to 2000pts.
Rethrisse
QUOTE(PaulM @ Jul 24 2014, 11:39 PM) *
Necrotic strike I would personally leave that out and just purchase empower weapon spiritually and then path to gain the mantic side this then becomes a perm ability. (Although I imagine spiritual damage will do for a long time)

Also unsure why a death knight would have walk through walls. So would suggest something along the lines of 1day for 5 min all sharp damaged is halved after all calculations to a minium of 1.

Go for normal freeze touch and do a separate pts app after buying x freeze touch's may now channel freeze through a weapon blow build it up it should work out cheaper.

Also the 25% reduction go for perm physical reduction and purchase mystical rages as a warrior subclass .


The 25% perm range sounds horrifying and I wants it.

Otherwise, that sounds a lot more efficient in the long run. Thanks much smile.gif
jasonprice
lo, my 2 grulls.
evel 1 – Instruments of Death – All gear held or worn becomes Master-crafted for as long as it is in the Death Knight's possession. Additionally, the Death Knight gains +1 innate PAC while wearing Master Crafted (phys-repped) armour.
dont bother with pac, do as add on's.

Level 2 – Unnatural Power – The Death Knight gains +1 Grade of Strength (stacking to a maximum of +3)
try 1 per day option, then add on to buy more will be cheaper, and still have power ups for fights.

Level 3 – 1/15 minutes, may cast an innate miracle as if benefitting from Soul's Hunger or Lesser Wings of Darkness

Level 4 – Otherworldly Resilience – 1/day while wearing Master Crafted (phys-repped) armour, may activate a physical Rockskin (___,___)
not to hard but will cost, you might be told needs to be an armour based MC.

Level 5 – No enemy gains the benefit of Accuracy ("through" damage) against the Death Knight, as the line between the ending of the armour and the beginning of the Death Knight blurs (thus eliminating any weak spots to exploit).
dont bother buy off tables waste of a lvl. Go for 25% off none Spirit damage from weapon blows.

Level 6 – Unholy Force – 1/day Knockback or Knockdown (chosen at time of using). Requires 3 grades of strength. (___,___)
again wasted can buy off tables. maybe Death aura from lvl 5, 1 per day can when wearing MC metal armour gains 50% against none spirit based weapon blows.

Post-6th: For ___ points on Table ___, may upgrade the Level 1 ability of this multi-class to make any weapons held or armour worn beneficially inseperable from the Death Knight.

I know the level 4 may be kind of silly, but I'm still going to see if I'll get it. This class is all about being hard as nails, after all. I also wanted the level 6 to be another 1/15 minutes thing, but I highly doubt I'd get it that way. its fine a few of us have this.

jay
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