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> Very young players, Age groups for parties
doublethebass
post Sep 6 2009, 07:05 AM
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I recently brought my son and a friend down for the first time, both of them have just turned 11 and we're so excited about coming to the young players event.

There was a big age difference in the party with most of them being 14 and 15. Whilst I appreciate the adventure is for 11-15 year olds it did lead to a few problems as some of the party were not that nice to them and excluded them a bit, there was also a lot of swearing. I wasn't there so it's hard to know what actually happened as I wasn't there but both my kids started to feel unhappy by the end of the day. They were in an all evil party on their first adventure and things fell apart a little in the dungeon which didn't help either.

I know the staff can't control the game play but was annoyed about the constant swearing and the way the other players excluded them a bit. Maybe part of the problem is that the age, maturity and size difference between 11 and 15 is massive and I wondered if there was a way of organizing a younger young players event where the age range is more like 11 to 13 so they don't feel so small against the 15 year olds.
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Bruno
post Sep 6 2009, 07:23 AM
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I've seen this be a problem now and again in the past - the difficulty is that it often works ok, and there's usually just not the numbers to have a further age split. Someone official will be along to say something from management's point of view I expect, they might have some ideas.

Of course players are always welcome to organise adventures themselves, and therefore make a booking for 8 or 10 people who are in their age range, or potentially even use these forums to round up players of the right ages, but I expect that's easier said than done in practice.

Sorry your kids had a bad time - every adventure is different, and every player group has different people on it, so it would be quite possible to have a completely different experience next time, but I agree that your flagging up the problem has to be a good thing!


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darkwolf1060
post Sep 6 2009, 09:50 AM
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Just wondering, if this does happen, would the very young players have a choice of what dungeon they want to play on? Because I am 12 and have been going laby for a while and have made friends with all 14 and 15 year olds so I would probably prefer to go on dungeons with them.


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PhilB
post Sep 6 2009, 10:22 AM
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Really sorry that your kids didnt enjoy their day at Labyrinthe as much as they could have... As you rightly say, the age difference between 11-15 can be quite significant, but Bruno is quite right that a further age split is, at this time, impracticle - there simply isnt the quantity of YP's currently to split into two age ranges. It is possible to organise closed events to ensure that a tighter age range is achieved - however, this kind of event is player driven (which, for a new player at Labyrinthe, will likely prove tricky as they probably dont know enough people to orgainise a group...)

The social dynamic of YP's is not something that we can fully control or influence... outward/obvious bullying is not to be tolerated, and our YP refs are briefed to deal with such behaviour - however, it is impracticle for us to try and control social exclusion... as Bruno also said (he has a huge amount of past experience in the running of Labyrinthe... smile.gif) every dungeon is different, and the exact mix of players and monsters can change the dynamic and experience completely.

We do see swearing and inappropriate behaviour from time to time (it seems to come and go in cycles...) and bad language is not to be tolerated. This is something that we can and will deal with more directly.

Thanks for your feedback - if we dont know what is wrong, then we cant fix the problems... and, again, sorry that your kids didnt enjoy their day as much as I would hope.

Phil.
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Brucifer
post Sep 6 2009, 07:48 PM
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INterestingly the last YP dungeon we reffed (a couple of weeks ago now), we had a big chat with the players about appropriate language for caves (modern swearing is not just offensive, its actually really really OOC) and also about how they refer to each other. We spotted a couple of them referring to each other as 'retards' and i felt it necessary to stamp on that ASAP.

After the chat the YPs were absolutely golden all day. All i can say is that maybe there could be something in place about this and refs encouraged to bring such language to the attention of the desk for persistent offenders.

Echoing Phil and Bruno though, a shame the guys didnt enjoy their day. Caroline and I are reffing on the 12th of Sept, and would be happy to have your guys back and show them what the caves is REALLY all about. biggrin.gif

B


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Salamander
post Sep 6 2009, 09:09 PM
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Really sorry to hear they didnt enjoy it.
However looking back I could understand why (The first section having little fighting fighting and more threat/roleplay/ritula needed until the end when a priest and his relatively uber-powerful skeleton was massacring everyonewho tried to stay and complete the mission) and as such wouldnt be appreciated by a first-timer (Who maynot understand why we are all scared of the guy doing mantic suspend lifes).

I remember on my first few times enjoying the combat for its own sake with most roleplay and otherthings going completely over my head (and I was 13 when I started)
So therfore a section with only one skirmish (which was over as soon as the combat began due to the spiders trying to jump over and died en route) would not be particularly satisfying. The only other real chance for fighting was against the skeleton which would have OHKO'd them if it critted them.

As for the afternoon dungeon content I cannot comment as I left at lunch.

However from what I have been told there was a major party divide due to the nature of one of the PCs (werewolf) and it all went belly up from there.

If it had happend when I was new I wouldnt have know what to do and thus would have had a dissapointing experience.


As an all evil guild start up it was destined to fail (Distinct lack of healing) and it was unfortunate that their first time coincided with the start up.

IC being evil means that tolerance would be at a minimum.



Any other day and I promise that they would have enjoyed it throughoughly they were just unlucky to try it out on the day that everything went wrong for the party

Playing for the first time is odd there is no denying it. Trying to get your head around roleplaying and the like
Having a successful adventure first time round helps ease this somewhat as your correlate the roleplaying with the goodfeeling you get when you win things.


Again sorry they didnt enjoy it and we all hope that they can come down some other time and learn what it is really like smile.gif

Alistair


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doublethebass
post Sep 7 2009, 11:02 AM
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Thanks for all you comments. I understand of course that every adventure is different and they were a little unlucky to be put in an all evil guild adventure on their first time. Seems like most of the players new each other and couldn't really be bothered to take time to help the noobies apart from one or two nicer players. I was pretty upset to hear about the amount of swearing that went on though, it would be good for refs to nip this in the bud early. I also wonder if as a new player there was confusion between evil characters being unpleasant when role playing and taking it personally?

I also think it was a tough dungeon for a new player as apparently most monsters were hitting doubles and some triples which is pretty heavy for a level 1 scout! Now the dust has settled they would like to come again but I think i'll take a little care to see what group they are being booked with first and hopefully avoid a bad experience. If any young players read this and feel like helping them out a bit it would be great for them.

Shame the kids can't play with adults, they would make great little stabby hobbits that could attack your ankles. I understand why they can't though from reading a few forums on here.

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saracentruth
post Sep 7 2009, 01:14 PM
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Hey Matt,

assuming that it isn't actually my nephew's birthday party on 3rd October, I was intending to bring my son Jack and his friend Daniel along to the a.m. session of the Young Players (probably a.m. only so that they get a feel for it first). From what I gathered from speaking to your's on Saturday they were very polite and a credit to you, they'd get along very well together. Jack only turned 11 at the end of May, and Daniel's 11 as well. They are all near enough of a size also.

It's a bit of an issue with regards to a possible party, but as soon as I find out then I'll let you know if you wanted to both join in the Low as an adult and bring the kids to the YP low as well ? I've booked on to the adult Low myself, just waiting on my sister in law making her mind up about whether she's organising my nephews party on a Saturday or Sunday now.

As a sort of general comment as a parent intending to bring his children down, I wouldn't be very happy if I found out there was swearing going on, and I would expect it to be stamped on sooner rather than later of course. Needless to say, I'd probably end up not bringing them again unless (as has happened above, and which I believe) I was assured action would be taken to ensure as much as possible it didn't happen again. I realise of course it's probably impractical and definitely illegal to duct-tape children's mouths closed wink.gif but I expect there will be some quiet words with refs about stopping bad language on adventure, apart from anything else young children are 'in the care' of labyrinthe whilst on-site and none of the adults I've met down there, erm, 'here' ?, would advocate bad behaviour.

I'd definitely try again, and hopefully on the 3rd October smile.gif


(Zhoto)


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doublethebass
post Sep 7 2009, 02:03 PM
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Thanks Dan,
The kids spoke highly of you and enjoyed meeting you. I'd say that potentially the 3rd of October is good although I would need to check it over with my lady first. We have a three month old baby and time out is a little tricky sometimes. It would be great to have some nice kids of a similar age going together, I think it would be great for them. Of course if I took them then I guess I'd be forced to have a game too wink.gif. Long live Bob and Zhoto!
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saracentruth
post Sep 7 2009, 02:14 PM
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Hai !

(lol)


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Regards, Dan.

For those that know, or care:
Talen, of the Duron. 99% Human. Ranger. | Zhoto Dzen. Human. Monk. | "Old Ma". Human, female, about 80 years old give or take a decade. Midwife. | Rotundulous. Winter Elf, Warlock. "but I'm telling you, my arm *is* broken" | Forty One. Human. Warrior(Pit Fighter). unlettered and uncultured, but good to his friends (a new idea to him) | Recolo. Alfar (Light, but aspires to be as the original Alfar). Forest Guardian. | Book, Prophet of The Word. Human. Errr, Prophet ;)
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darkwolf1060
post Sep 7 2009, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE(doublethebass @ Sep 7 2009, 12:02 PM) *
Thanks for all you comments. I understand of course that every adventure is different and they were a little unlucky to be put in an all evil guild adventure on their first time. Seems like most of the players new each other and couldn't really be bothered to take time to help the noobies apart from one or two nicer players. I was pretty upset to hear about the amount of swearing that went on though, it would be good for refs to nip this in the bud early. I also wonder if as a new player there was confusion between evil characters being unpleasant when role playing and taking it personally?

I also think it was a tough dungeon for a new player as apparently most monsters were hitting doubles and some triples which is pretty heavy for a level 1 scout! Now the dust has settled they would like to come again but I think i'll take a little care to see what group they are being booked with first and hopefully avoid a bad experience. If any young players read this and feel like helping them out a bit it would be great for them.

Shame the kids can't play with adults, they would make great little stabby hobbits that could attack your ankles. I understand why they can't though from reading a few forums on here.

I wasn't actually there last week so i don't know how it all went down but as it was COTES start up they were quite unlucky. But I don't mind showin all the new peeps around! biggrin.gif


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.Stuart.

PLEASE! DO WE HAVE ANY GIANT MOUSETRAPS OR ANYTHING?!
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doublethebass
post Sep 7 2009, 08:26 PM
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Thanks Darkwolf, I'll let you know if they go again. Be good for them to meet some good players.
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Edd
post Sep 9 2009, 10:35 PM
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Hey,

I'm the ref for the 3rd of October. It's actually my little brother's birthday, he's turning 11 so it's his first ever adventure. My co-ref and I are writting the adventure with this in mind, and if your kids are gonna be booked too, we can take that on board so the adventure will be more accomodating. If you've any questions feel free to PM me, but (without wanting to give anything away) we've got, if I do say so myself, a great adventure that accomodates both new and experienced players alike.

Edd Insley


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JossDixon
post Sep 12 2009, 09:11 PM
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Just going back onto the Cult of the Everliving Shadows GS thingy, it was a bit unlucky and I'm sorry for you that your kids did get thrown into the flak first time and it was a very fast-paced stressful dungeon. Having been in YP's for about four years now, I do back up YP's quite biasedly and I know on dungeons as tricky as the CotES GS people aren't ready to deal with noobs, especially the guild leader, Seb Humphries because it was a hell of a struggle to get it off the ground (Still failed :S). I think dungeons specific for younger youngers are useful because frankly it's not easy the Senior YP's if there's smaller kids running around looking befuddled.

We do get stressed as well, please remember that. YP's are not simply overexcited teenagers with Llareggub else to do on Saturdays, and I think it's well known that you 'mature' adults have your own tantrums. mellow.gif

I always pounce on as my characters with my roleplay is when people say things like 'Christ' on dungeon, because even though it's not swearing it is an OOC extremity. I'm personally not brilliant with noobs, sorry sad.gif but I will do my best if I meet the little 'uns. I'm usually down every week (I'm the small grumpy one in the black patchy trenchcoat and black pinstripe trilby-not a friendly image I know) so now you know what to look out for.


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alex
post Sep 13 2009, 12:25 PM
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In my experince in YP i dont actually hear as much swearing as you described. Like many other people have said it was really just bad luck to have come on that day if they were to try it again i am sure we would all be a bit more supportive but yes as Joss said we have failed that event once and now once again smile.gif so wasnt going to well. I can only speak for my self but if they do come down again i will be more than willing to help them get involed a little more without being killed at the same time smile.gif

Alex.


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darkwolf1060
post Sep 13 2009, 12:49 PM
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PLEASE DISREGARD THIS POST


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.Stuart.

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saracentruth
post Sep 25 2009, 03:32 PM
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Looks indeed as if I am going to be bringing my son, Jack, and his friend to the caves on Saturday 3rd October to the YP Low. Only the morning session because Jack is going to my nephews birthday party which starts at 2:30ish, and also I want to see if he enjoys the whole thing first, so if everyone could do their best I'd be grateful - not the least of which is that if he wants to come to the caves then I'd get the opportunity to bring him ! lol

Both Jack, and his friend Daniel, are 11.

Thanks,
Dan


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Regards, Dan.

For those that know, or care:
Talen, of the Duron. 99% Human. Ranger. | Zhoto Dzen. Human. Monk. | "Old Ma". Human, female, about 80 years old give or take a decade. Midwife. | Rotundulous. Winter Elf, Warlock. "but I'm telling you, my arm *is* broken" | Forty One. Human. Warrior(Pit Fighter). unlettered and uncultured, but good to his friends (a new idea to him) | Recolo. Alfar (Light, but aspires to be as the original Alfar). Forest Guardian. | Book, Prophet of The Word. Human. Errr, Prophet ;)
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AndrewBucknell
post Sep 25 2009, 04:35 PM
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Hi Dan
i am bringing a load of new players on the 25th october (yes the sunday) so if your two want a world of first level newbies to play with then make it a date.
Andrew
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JossDixon
post Sep 25 2009, 09:00 PM
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...I think that would be splendid?


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saracentruth
post Sep 28 2009, 09:22 PM
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QUOTE(AndrewBucknell @ Sep 25 2009, 05:35 PM) *
Hi Dan
i am bringing a load of new players on the 25th october (yes the sunday) so if your two want a world of first level newbies to play with then make it a date.
Andrew


Hi Andrew, thanks for the heads up/invite and whilst that sounds great, unfortunately Jack has just joined a football team, which plays on Sundays sad.gif

If they decide to come again on a Saturday however, please let me know ! I'm sure Jack and Daniel would be up for that again, I know both are a little worried about their first time down the caves.

Beginning-ish of November will probably be the earliest I can get down next time, hopefully Jack will enjoy himself on Saturday and be on my wife's case to come down as soon as possible wink.gif


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Regards, Dan.

For those that know, or care:
Talen, of the Duron. 99% Human. Ranger. | Zhoto Dzen. Human. Monk. | "Old Ma". Human, female, about 80 years old give or take a decade. Midwife. | Rotundulous. Winter Elf, Warlock. "but I'm telling you, my arm *is* broken" | Forty One. Human. Warrior(Pit Fighter). unlettered and uncultured, but good to his friends (a new idea to him) | Recolo. Alfar (Light, but aspires to be as the original Alfar). Forest Guardian. | Book, Prophet of The Word. Human. Errr, Prophet ;)
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