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MattJ
post Feb 5 2018, 04:51 PM
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So there are a few things about the CC benefits system that get my goat. CC contracts are not meant to grant IC benefits to people, they're to fill in gaps in the gameworld,
allow people to establish influence etc. I think CC benefits and contracts are a great thing.

However, crypts add nothing to the CC system. This is a mystical 10isp for a rebirth that you cannot get from anywhere else. Generally you get 10ISP per 1,000 points you
were post 8th. So a crypt is like being 1,000 points higher...for 1 cp...it doesn't make sense to me.

Personally I think crypts should either be removed or have their benefit drastically changed. We've seen at least 2 guilds giving all their members crypts. Why would they do
that? It's not because of some amazing rp reason it's because of the awesome stat benefit they bring. There weren't any guild prior to this benefit being published saying
"wouldn't it be awesome if we had a kick ass mausoleum".

Anyway I wanted to air my thoughts and hear what others have to say on the subject.

p.s. I'm not knocking any of the guilds/people with crypts, after all if a kick ass stat benefit is available it's absolutely OK to want it...it's just that like immunity to bruising I think
that the system would be better off without it.
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BBB
post Feb 5 2018, 05:14 PM
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I certainly your point that if CC are not supposed to grant stat benefits then Crypt and a few other odd thing certainly need a rethink regards granting stat benefits.

There does seem to be a little blurring of the line with some of a couple of the CC.

BBB


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giles
post Feb 6 2018, 12:27 AM
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I agree that Crypts don't just not add anything to the cc system - I don't think they add anything to the game - a tavern, a small business etc - has a name, you can talk about it. I suppose a family crypt etc. could be a cool place - but I don't think it lends itself to much. But then neither does paying 10 pts for the Rebirth ability - adds nothing to the game, it's just a 10 pt tax for no reason whatsoever. My view is it's there and it broadly doesn't do anyone any harm - and one day someone will do something innovative with it. I feel a bit like that about Crypts - they don't do any harm - is 10 ISP a kick ass stat benefit? +1 MAC & Cure Wound, Live to -6 Spiritual 1st time you need it 1/day? I still don't think Rebirth ISPs equate to the tables anyway - the ref writes what they think is a suitable rebirth and the GSM costs it/approves it - I'm not sure 10 ISP figures that much in the grand scheme of things
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Kail
post Feb 6 2018, 07:16 AM
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So the shadow legion one has a roleplay reasoning behind it and I'm hoping to get more player contracts off of it. So to lay out my plans publicly the crypt is based on keeping a role of those in the guild that have fallen, think of the military collecting dog tags. From this I'm hoping to do a contract for a guild status, which yes is stats again but that's how you get a guild status. The roleplay behind that on is the role now recording people's acts of valour. Then I'm going to go for a status similar to the noble/new years honors ones which will be based on the idea of military honours/medals. Again may give some stats.

The crypt benefits other players do get for free but the others they will pay points for. With this over view is it acceptable?

Other cps that give stats. Mystical mount, a free mass word of recall. Forge, the tinker benefit where no one on the party losses an armour us. Extra pair of hands/ quiet place/ place of power, give better make chances. Farms/ tamarisk patch have been used to get cheaper potion makes. Business/ day at the races give you grulls that you can buy potions/ items with. Guild halls give guilds extension points so you can keep claiming guild benefits. Traider, gives you free items.

Which, if any of these, do people think are a problem as well? I'm not trying to be stroppy I just wonder how far people realise cps can affect stats or should affect status.

Edd
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Benson
post Feb 6 2018, 08:12 AM
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There is other cc awarded Ic benifits, like: day at the races, dealer, apprentice scribe, should we get rid of these?

I do think how some have got them is a bit tongue in cheek!
R


QUOTE(MattJ @ Feb 5 2018, 04:51 PM) *
So there are a few things about the CC benefits system that get my goat. CC contracts are not meant to grant IC benefits to people, they're to fill in gaps in the gameworld,
allow people to establish influence etc. I think CC benefits and contracts are a great thing.

However, crypts add nothing to the CC system. This is a mystical 10isp for a rebirth that you cannot get from anywhere else. Generally you get 10ISP per 1,000 points you
were post 8th. So a crypt is like being 1,000 points higher...for 1 cp...it doesn't make sense to me.

Personally I think crypts should either be removed or have their benefit drastically changed. We've seen at least 2 guilds giving all their members crypts. Why would they do
that? It's not because of some amazing rp reason it's because of the awesome stat benefit they bring. There weren't any guild prior to this benefit being published saying
"wouldn't it be awesome if we had a kick ass mausoleum".

Anyway I wanted to air my thoughts and hear what others have to say on the subject.

p.s. I'm not knocking any of the guilds/people with crypts, after all if a kick ass stat benefit is available it's absolutely OK to want it...it's just that like immunity to bruising I think
that the system would be better off without it.

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whiteknight
post Feb 6 2018, 09:11 AM
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Crypts - you don't have to have one. Personally I don't care so therefore I wont have one or chase around trying to blag one on an adventure. if someone wants and needs the 10 ISP then why not?

I don't have one as it doesn't fit the character. But that's just my opinion.

I also have a farm and can sell and produce Goblin Ale - I don't get anything for this but its just part of the role play for me.

Let it all stay and use them if you want to.

Just my humble Tuesday morning opinion.

Key board warrior Rich.


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Darkended
post Feb 6 2018, 10:42 AM
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Educate the CC noob here - is crypts like, a standard/common cc contract people apply for that has a specific benefit?

I'm pretty certain I've been viewing ccs wrong for a while, I've been trying to use them to make my amles status abilities work outside of amles..


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sonof
post Feb 6 2018, 10:47 AM
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I'm sure someone can link them but there's a guide to them in the downloads of what they are.
There's also an article from Jasper when he was CC in downloads, and I did some bits in the latest Almanac in general.

As for Crypts specifically -
I'm not against them, I'm not certain I like them being set on the dungeon the person died on unless they were already written into the dungeon.

Why? Well I have a list of 4ish months of CP's issued and crypt isn't very common because its kinda difficult to make sense.

I also agree they should be relevant not just "have a crypt".

For guilds getting them I kinda see it like the Stars on the Wall, or rolls of honour of the names of the dead.

And are they any worse than an Obituary?

Lee


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BBB
post Feb 6 2018, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE(sonof @ Feb 6 2018, 10:47 AM) *
I'm sure someone can link them but there's a guide to them in the downloads of what they are.
There's also an article from Jasper when he was CC in downloads, and I did some bits in the latest Almanac in general.

The Download is Here

QUOTE(sonof @ Feb 6 2018, 10:47 AM) *
As for Crypts specifically -
I'm not against them, I'm not certain I like them being set on the dungeon the person died on unless they were already written into the dungeon.

Why? Well I have a list of 4ish months of CP's issued and crypt isn't very common because its kinda difficult to make sense.


As a statistical counter point: How many perm deaths eligible for ISP Rebirths have there been in that four months...?

QUOTE(sonof @ Feb 6 2018, 10:47 AM) *
I also agree they should be relevant not just "have a crypt".

For guilds getting them I kinda see it like the Stars on the Wall, or rolls of honour of the names of the dead.

And are they any worse than an Obituary?

Lee


I don't think its a case of them being bad / wrong / worse than other stuff

I think the point is the base description of the CC System is that they don't grant direct Stat Benefits to the Player, in the same way Heroes positions never granted stat benefits to the player without follow up points apps.

Personally I'm not fussed either way if CCs grants small benefits but perhaps a better definition of how they function might be in order (because, you know, cavies, we like to push boundaries and to do that need to know where they are...)

BBB


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BBB
post Feb 6 2018, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE(Darkended @ Feb 6 2018, 10:42 AM) *
Educate the CC noob here - is crypts like, a standard/common cc contract people apply for that has a specific benefit?

I'm pretty certain I've been viewing ccs wrong for a while, I've been trying to use them to make my amles status abilities work outside of amles..


Its a basic standard CP Option available for a referee to set.

Funnily enough I just started experimenting with CC stuff this week, mainly to try and carry over some of the cool signature / flavour stuff I built up in the nearly 20 years of playing heroes and for stuff for the two newer* characters I'm currently playing up.

Will be interested to see how they pan out.

BBB

*newer being a relative term given I have characters who are over 10 years old that I think of as new...


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Darkended
post Feb 6 2018, 02:56 PM
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QUOTE(BBB @ Feb 6 2018, 01:24 PM) *
The Download is Here



Thank you! This coupled with the almanac is very informative, especially having the application form with which to use them. smile.gif


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Leo
post Feb 6 2018, 04:33 PM
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At risk of stating the obvious, why don't we just make them cost 10 ISP instead?
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MattJ
post Feb 6 2018, 05:09 PM
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Because item ISP does not relate to rebirth ISP.

I agree it's not a massive problem, merely a bugbear of mine. I was bored on a train on Monday and decided to have a random rant.

It's more that it's a benefit you can't get elsewhere. Obits will apply to everyone, I have also regularly seen awarded (and been given) crypts as people perm...it makes little sense to me.

I don't doubt there are great rp reasons for guild crypts etc just as there would be great justifications for mausoleums for noble families it's just the stat benefit for a cc contract that I don't like. Oddly I would be happier if it just gave you access to a unique ability you could then buy with points. It's just that it feels like an item without it being an item.

Anyway, someone has pointed out to me (albeit privately) that I am guilty of farming indirect stat benefits through cc contracts (yhey are of course correct, it's a fair cop)...as such I'll just continue bathe in my own hypocrisy.
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JackFlashblade
post Feb 6 2018, 05:58 PM
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So, I like the current CC system and see nothing wrong with crypts or any of the other stuff that grants in game benefits.

Anyone can have a crypt, they just need to crew a themeday type event and spend 250 monster points.

Just my 2P

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Chris
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TimTreadwell
post Feb 6 2018, 11:42 PM
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Crypts - people are dying to get them.

Tim.
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Trickyz
post Feb 7 2018, 09:05 AM
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There is nothing wrong with getting a crypt, prior to rebirth I got one on a dungeon and was very glad of it 9 months later when I perm'd.

Most players have a way of getting one its not exclusive to a particular race, class or anything like that.

It's not system breaking in my view so its broadly fine. It would not bother me if it was removed or kept.


Tim - lol, so cheesy


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Padallen
post Feb 9 2018, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE(BBB @ Feb 6 2018, 01:24 PM) *
I think the point is the base description of the CC System is that they don't grant direct Stat Benefits to the Player, in the same way Heroes positions never granted stat benefits to the player without follow up points apps.

Personally I'm not fussed either way if CCs grants small benefits but perhaps a better definition of how they function might be in order (because, you know, cavies, we like to push boundaries and to do that need to know where they are...)

BBB

For me this is the big thing, the base for CC from games and also CC contracts were defined as not giving stat benefits. This is clearly not the case and needs updating! :-)


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sonof
post Feb 9 2018, 10:53 PM
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If it helps I think it was always "in Game" benefit other wise its never been following its own rule.

And broadly from day 1 the CC gave in character benefits, so the comments about them not is a lot foolish. Dealer, Tamarisk Patch, Place of power etc. All IC benefits. If anything Crypt is one of the least IC ones as you have to die to use it.


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Ryan
post Feb 9 2018, 11:02 PM
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QUOTE(sonof @ Feb 9 2018, 10:53 PM) *
If it helps I think it was always "in Game" benefit other wise its never been following its own rule.

And broadly from day 1 the CC gave in character benefits, so the comments about them not is a lot foolish. Dealer, Tamarisk Patch, Place of power etc. All IC benefits. If anything Crypt is one of the least IC ones as you have to die to use it.
Lee


Not even die... perm die! You lose all your points and start agin!
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Ikwos
post Feb 12 2018, 11:42 AM
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Hi all,

Thanks for pointing the use of crypts as a CC. As a new returning player this sort of discussion/posting helps me uderstqnd some of the more qwerkier elements of the system.

P.S I want a crypt now 😜


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