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> Torrents
sonof
post Jan 1 2018, 06:54 PM
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So it has happened. I honestly hoped the problems they causes 3-4 years ago wouldn't happen again and people had become cool with them. Alas over the final dawn they appeared and resulted in really tedious fights with people not parrying and being dull.

Now I think I'll be open I don't, stat wise, object to torrents. I think they are a perfectly reasonable thing however certain players act like idiots when they have them up and ignore blows rather than fighting properly.

So torrents as they stand yesterday will be gone. The question is what do they become. My options are:

Get rid of them completely
Change them to be a Numerical in someway.
Limit them somehow.
Other ideas from those that have them and want to keep them.

You have about a week to discuss it and I'll post a ruling. Unless someone comes up with a problem with that ruling it will be so in two to three weeks.

Lee


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isbiraven
post Jan 1 2018, 06:59 PM
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I think making them numericals would solve part og the problem...
Either that or limit to 3 a day in a similar way to act of faith.

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Stuart
post Jan 1 2018, 07:08 PM
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What's a torrent?

Stuart
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Netheril
post Jan 1 2018, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE(isbiraven @ Jan 1 2018, 06:59 PM) *
I think making them numericals would solve part og the problem...
Either that or limit to 3 a day in a similar way to act of faith.


For my 2p worth making them 3/day, and fwiw cap retros in the same way, would be definite improvements.

Cheers,

Sean
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fatteacher
post Jan 1 2018, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE(Stuart @ Jan 1 2018, 07:08 PM) *
What's a torrent?

Stuart

What is a torrent please? You can just say ‘a post 10k thing’ and I can just ignore all this


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Carlo
post Jan 1 2018, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE(Stuart @ Jan 1 2018, 07:08 PM) *
What's a torrent?

Stuart


They are a sneaky damage reduction based miracle, but not actually a reduction.

For every x points of damage, target is healed y.

Then people with hard damage reductions were making a profit on being hit, or were immune to
Encounters while still being able to interact.

Very silly, get rid entirely. At best, make them a major healing based divine invocation or something.

Carlo
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Will
post Jan 1 2018, 07:32 PM
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I am completely unfussed. Ditch them as spells/miracles/evocations, keep them as limited innates would be my option if something were done.


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Will
post Jan 1 2018, 07:34 PM
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The typical torrent is "Get healed 3 points every time takes external damage, if takes any other healing goes down" and then used in combination with lots of damage reductions so that when you are taking a few points from a blow you become effectively immune, as also gets around bruising etc.

There are variations, 1 points, 6 points, etc.

Other idea: Limit them to one point.


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TheFury
post Jan 1 2018, 07:37 PM
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My thoughts over chats. I liked the idea of making them count as one of your three damage reductions. So can replace numerical, percentile or fractional.

Likely with some sort of cap eg max 12 as numerical.


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RichardCraig
post Jan 1 2018, 07:40 PM
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I'd either limit them to 1pt or alternatively make it so that even after the healing you have to take 1pt so people can't be immune to encounters.

Or just make them self only, I think there wouldn't be an issue if they were being used by the people who cast them, it's only when warriors get their hands on them that the issues start!
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iainwimble
post Jan 1 2018, 08:08 PM
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Minimise them so you have to take 1pt a blow and maybe innates x aday they can make you fully
Immune to the blow or only the caster can take no damage. Or only heal 1/1 if xast on others and 3/3 oneself
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bendy
post Jan 1 2018, 08:35 PM
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Anything that makes it so that they can't be immune would be good, it can be v tedious crewing against an immune front rank.

Sounds like a blags way around the three types of damage reductions so as others have said may make sense to make it one of the three although tbh don't know enough about them for sure as am still in rank of running away / parrying.
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Ryan
post Jan 1 2018, 08:45 PM
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I think Craigys suggestion that they can only be cast on yourself is a good start then just limit who they get passed for.

If you’re going to make it a numerical then you would need to look at bedazzle too imo ... MCC always toyed with the idea of making bedazzle a numerical for the same reason - it’s a cheeky 4th reduction.

Maybe they kick in before percentiles and fractional to limit the damage they do but still stack with a numerical.
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Ryan
post Jan 1 2018, 08:56 PM
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Just a thought as I’m fairly sure I wrote the first one - mine only works one per x amount of time... your body can’t take it too many times etc. Maybe they should have all be like this rather than the usual escalation of each passed the last getting better and better?
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Gordon
post Jan 1 2018, 09:34 PM
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1) Self only, MJR Healing or equivalent.

2) Make them all spirits of ‘Parry More’ like Beserker spirits if you are being tedious or shameful in your fighting style they leave you in disgust and you cannot benefit from them again.

3) Make them cost a level or even two levels to either the recipient and/or the caster.

4) Just take weapon skills off tedious combatants as we would do to unsafe players in the past, enjoy your torrent but you can’t fight back, guess you should have parried more 😀


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Cast of 2013: Amorphus, Golgari, Kessel, Marimar, Radiant, Strale & "Terry"
Cast of 2014: Amorphus, Hex, Godstone, Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Radiant & Strale
Cast of 2015: Amorphus, Karador, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2016: Zaton
Cast of 2017: Amorphus, Equinox, Godstone, Golgari, Hex, Karador, Prowl, Radiant, Variel & Zaton.
Cast of 2018: Amorphus, Despair, Equinox, Golgari, Karador, Lannary, Prowl, Templeton, Vanderlaine, Void & Zaton
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Forefallen
post Jan 1 2018, 09:46 PM
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Like the idea of powering up to be immune, lets be honest, we're going to do it one way or another.

I do however think something like:

'Gives the user self defence restrictions'

Or Gordons idea of being spirits of protection/parrying so you have to actively be more defensive etc is very cool

Or just dock peoples points... If they're effectively immune because a torrent is healing them then they are still taking damage, if they don't roleplay it then... Dock them points for not roleplaying.


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SamR
post Jan 1 2018, 09:48 PM
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Just get rid of them entirely, they are awful abilities that display the very worst and most tedious aspects of the high level system.

Whilst we’re at it I’d add a system rule that if you are affected by and inflicting a powerbase then you should always take a minimum of 1pt a blow to make combat always matter and get away from blase semi-OOC fighting encounters.
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BBB
post Jan 1 2018, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE(TheFury @ Jan 1 2018, 07:37 PM) *
My thoughts over chats. I liked the idea of making them count as one of your three damage reductions. So can replace numerical, percentile or fractional.

Likely with some sort of cap eg max 12 as numerical.


I like this option.

BBB


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Onasuma
post Jan 1 2018, 10:08 PM
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QUOTE(SamR @ Jan 1 2018, 09:48 PM) *
Just get rid of them entirely, they are awful abilities that display the very worst and most tedious aspects of the high level system.

Whilst we’re at it I’d add a system rule that if you are affected by and inflicting a powerbase then you should always take a minimum of 1pt a blow to make combat always matter and get away from blase semi-OOC fighting encounters.


Both of these.

Pete
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Ryan
post Jan 1 2018, 10:11 PM
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QUOTE(SamR @ Jan 1 2018, 09:48 PM) *
Whilst we’re at it I’d add a system rule that if you are affected by and inflicting a powerbase then you should always take a minimum of 1pt a blow to make combat always matter and get away from blase semi-OOC fighting encounters.



Let’s get rid of spirit form, mana form and power base immunities while we are at it?!

Where do you stand on immune to bruising ?! - breaks the one point a blow rule...
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