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> A new use for monster points?
LucyH
post Aug 8 2008, 07:23 PM
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Merely as a suggestion:

Sometimes characters get items that are special, or character defining, or generally add flavour to what they do, and it's always disappointing when these items blow up - particularly if they do something that is a bit "different".

Would it be possible to add an option for spending monster points such it was possible to 'match' the ISPs set for a specific item to make it a DNBUOD item? Obviously there would be a desk veto if they feel the item is overpowered, but it would be much cooler if a paladin who found a holy sword didn't have it blow up because he died defending his fellow party members two weeks later...

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Jan
post Aug 8 2008, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE(LucyH @ Aug 8 2008, 08:23 PM) *
Merely as a suggestion:

Sometimes characters get items that are special, or character defining, or generally add flavour to what they do, and it's always disappointing when these items blow up - particularly if they do something that is a bit "different".

Would it be possible to add an option for spending monster points such it was possible to 'match' the ISPs set for a specific item to make it a DNBUOD item? Obviously there would be a desk veto if they feel the item is overpowered, but it would be much cooler if a paladin who found a holy sword didn't have it blow up because he died defending his fellow party members two weeks later...

Lucy



Or even spend monster points to avoid just the NEXT blowing up on death, so you can pay for it one death at a time?

I like Lucy's idea.


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post Aug 9 2008, 12:00 AM
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QUOTE(Jan @ Aug 8 2008, 08:43 PM) *
Or even spend monster points to avoid just the NEXT blowing up on death, so you can pay for it one death at a time?

I like Lucy's idea.


It is a good idea, although I shy clear of actually liking it lest I agree with Jan.

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Jan
post Aug 9 2008, 12:05 AM
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QUOTE(SimonMercer @ Aug 9 2008, 01:00 AM) *
It is a good idea, although I shy clear of actually liking it lest I agree with Jan.


You're just jealous of me. And I posted first. Naaa naaaa daa naaa naaaa.

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Brucifer
post Aug 9 2008, 07:39 AM
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Like it.

Ive lost count of the number of very cool and helpful items i lost as Armitage...

B


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JulianW
post Aug 9 2008, 08:34 AM
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I like this too. I've seen so many really cool & character defining items lost by various people over the years due to totally random or unlucky deaths. A way to keep the item if you really care about it enough to pay the price tag would be good.

Julian


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post Aug 9 2008, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE(JulianW @ Aug 9 2008, 09:34 AM) *
I like this too. I've seen so many really cool & character defining items lost by various people over the years due to totally random or unlucky deaths. A way to keep the item if you really care about it enough to pay the price tag would be good.

Julian


Good idea
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ethuil
post Aug 10 2008, 10:02 AM
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I think rather than a perm DNBUOD, the pay-per-death suggetion Jan has is sensible. It means there's still a risk of losing your item (if you die more times in one day than you have purchased DNBUODs) but also lets you avoid things like, ah, getting a character and +0 mantic chainmail then being PKd by the Paladin for being an AP the next day...

(Sorry Tony!)


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Darkended
post Aug 10 2008, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE(ethuil @ Aug 10 2008, 11:02 AM) *
(Sorry Tony!)


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Yes, Jan's idea sounds good to me, though chances are to make it fair the amount of points it would cost would need to differ from item to item.


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warren
post Aug 11 2008, 09:52 AM
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Great Idea!!!

Warren
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TonyMilevcic
post Aug 11 2008, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE(warren @ Aug 11 2008, 10:52 AM) *
Great Idea!!!



Agreed.


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abyatt
post Aug 11 2008, 03:30 PM
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I quite like the idea for character defining items, although the definition of "character defining" would be rather up for interpretation.

For example I personally wouldn't classify a +24/+8 life item as "character defining" even for a warrior - however I'm absolutely certain that some people would disagree.

From an admin perspective it would work far better if done at the point of issue, so as to avoid having to look through files to find out how many ISPs an unusual item was when it was given out 17 months and 26 days ago. One option would be to put the ISP cost on every item, however I'm also certain that that would lead to weekly "discussions" on ISPs on particular items.

As mentioned - quite like the idea - just needs refining a little.

The option to purchase DNBUO next death is also a nice one - but would need some thought on how to record it in such a way to not be open to abuse. Would also need an appropriate cost added to the actual item.

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JulianW
post Aug 11 2008, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE(abyatt @ Aug 11 2008, 04:30 PM) *
I quite like the idea for character defining items, although the definition of "character defining" would be rather up for interpretation.

For example I personally wouldn't classify a +24/+8 life item as "character defining" even for a warrior - however I'm absolutely certain that some people would disagree.

From an admin perspective it would work far better if done at the point of issue, so as to avoid having to look through files to find out how many ISPs an unusual item was when it was given out 17 months and 26 days ago. One option would be to put the ISP cost on every item, however I'm also certain that that would lead to weekly "discussions" on ISPs on particular items.

As mentioned - quite like the idea - just needs refining a little.

The option to purchase DNBUO next death is also a nice one - but would need some thought on how to record it in such a way to not be open to abuse. Would also need an appropriate cost added to the actual item.

Andy


I would suggest that the whole debate about what is / is not character defining for any character is incredibly subjective to the point of being near impossible to make a call on it. E.g. for a combatant priest a +0 spirit mace makes a huge difference to their stats & it may be highly significant as the first item they ever got that came from a truly epic & emotional adventure. However the card just says +0 goodly spirit mace.

Simplest restriction would be that you could only have one of such an item at a time. Easily enforced by the ref who would otherwise be ripping up the item cards.

Julian


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giles
post Aug 11 2008, 04:57 PM
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I agree with Julian's restriction of 1 character defining item per character.
Would also mean, I think, you could just charge a set number of item points - irrespective of the item's potency eg. 100 monster points.
Then just take the 'character defining' item card to the desk - they sign on DNBUOD and then the Character Number and cross 100 monster points off the yellow card - all done.
Would mean people were very careful about their 'character defining' item, as once the choice was made - you were stuck with it ie. could not change this if you found a new 'character defining' (ie. harder) item.

Giles.
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MarkCox
post Aug 11 2008, 06:13 PM
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Are there really that many items that people receive that are character defining?

If an item is unique and different enough then apply for it as an ability - this is fairly common with myths items and some 'defining' 3 day items

The key to suceed is to form the item into some sort of restrictive advancement [multiclass/tendency/tradition/status]


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LucyH
post Aug 11 2008, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE(MarkCox @ Aug 11 2008, 06:13 PM) *
Are there really that many items that people receive that are character defining?


Well, I said "character defining" as one of a number of criteria for items that people might not want to loose - I was thinking specifically of a couple of items I have had in the past that were interesting, or unusual, and added flavour to the character - a cup that granted potion facility, which I haven't seen before, and a pair of glasses that granted Read Languages. Neither "defining" but both "flavour adding".

Just being able to say "this item is cool/is the one I got off that particular dungeon/has sentimental value/whatever, I'd like to keep it rather than have it blow up if I die" without having to join Companions was my idea.

Turning an item into a points app is all well and good, but useless if the character dies and looses the item before being able to buy the ability, or if it's something small and quirky rather than a big 'multiclass cost' thing like a Myths item.

Hence paying some monster points for it not to blow up - after all, as things presently stand you can buy DNBUOD items with monster points anyway...

Lucy


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SiDeards
post Sep 30 2008, 08:58 PM
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Another idea for Monster Points would be to allow them to be used in the reverse of Ref points but maybe twice the cost?

Where as 1 Ref point is equal to 1 character level or 5 points i believe?

Maybe make 10 Points be usuable in reverse to buy 1 Ref Point to put 1 lvl on a character?

The reason i say this is because quite often low level and mid level dungeons fill up pretty fast, and its not possible for some people to play every week, so this can lead to no choice of adventures to play on unless you want to take your lvl4 on a max 500 dungeon or something.

Not everyone can ref or A-Ref to earn those points straight up, so it would be nice to have another route to gain some levels on a character when you have time to play but maybe you have nothing suitable for any dungeon running that week smile.gif
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sonof
post Oct 1 2008, 11:06 AM
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I like the idea on stopping items blowing up, and in truth who cares if it is defining.
The wizard gone warrior called JJ (for example, and in no relation to a real character), gets a +0 magic sword. Now this is really important as he is a KotL so can now use a sword and shield without having to spend 14 mana on making his sword magic.
Next dungeon he does a Dragon hunter (again no relation to real life bla bla bla) jumps on him and kills him because he is silly and not immune to backstab, his nice new sword goes bang.

So how about something like:

Within 1 month of an item being issued (so must still have 17+ months on the blow up date) a person can purchase the following item with monster points for it:
Proeteciton of "Item". The first time the item would blow up on death it doesn't, and instead this item does. May at the end of the dungeon repurchase this item if desired.
May only have one item protected in this way at a time.
Costs 5 monster points per ISP of the original item.


As for the idea of converting monster poitns to ref points No. Simply put any one can earn monster points, and not everyone should be allowed to skip the straight 8th system. It is a very important part of the system for new/inexperianced players.

Son of






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Jasper
post Oct 1 2008, 11:16 AM
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Whilst the obvious solution to JJ's problem is for him to buy Empower Weapon (350pts?) I quite like Sonof's idea about a secondary item card. How do you know whether someone has more than one, though? And how do you retroactively calculate the isp of a nonstandard item?

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LucyH
post Oct 1 2008, 11:26 AM
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QUOTE(sonof @ Oct 1 2008, 11:06 AM) *
As for the idea of converting monster poitns to ref points No. Simply put any one can earn monster points, and not everyone should be allowed to skip the straight 8th system. It is a very important part of the system for new/inexperianced players.

Son of


Or to put it more tactfully than Son of does...

Ref points were brought in to allow referees, who had played loads of characters through the pre-8th system, to skip that stage (and were moderately controversial at the time for that reason). If you aren't experienced/system-knowledgeable enough to be a ref, you probably aren't experienced enough to skip the pre-8th system.

They were also brought in because ther weren't enough refs around. It is a much harder task than monstering, and therefore it was felt that it deserved a different reward. If you can turn monster points into ref points, the incentive to ref is devalued again.

That said, I can see an argument for 10 MPs = 1 RP for the purpose of regaining a level lost making an item.

Lucy


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