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> Crew incentive, Sunday evening topic
JackFlashblade
post Jun 16 2013, 08:24 PM
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Ok, so getting crew is the age old problem. monster credit pay is very good, and monster point / ref point rewards are high. Neither should be increased imo.

Favours only go so far, and only with certain people, so what could be done to encourage more people to crew (and reduce Jo's weekly headache).

Two thinks I can think of, firstly make crewing more fun. The more fun people have crewing the more likely they are to do it in the future. Ideas to do this on a post card.

The other idea I had was making more stuff that can be done with monster and ref points.

Basically stuff people are keen enough to be able to get that they will crew in order to get the points to do.

Ideas I had were:

1. Allow people to add up to 10% of the points they have got as their highest character to new characters / existing characters when they are played. (to a minimum of say 250 points).

Yes, this would mean Lee dale could spend 2500 monster points to start up a character at 2500 points, but I don't personally see a problem with this?

2. Allow people to use monster points to advance CC contracts and buy CP's for standard CC rewards (though I think with CC contracts some of the Cp's should have to be awarded from adventure).

I would actually spend monster points on this if I could

3. Extend the blow up date of guilds

4. Allow people to buy any item that can be standardly set (but at a higher cost than the more basic items currently available).

5. Extending blow up date of existing standard iterms (or non standard items whose isp cost is known). Some people may use this option on guild items.

Anyone got any other ideas?

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ddevonport
post Jun 16 2013, 10:24 PM
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I think your first point was right. Make crewing adventures more fun. There's already good bribes to monster and they aren't enough to reduce Jo's headache. I think that's because we probably don't have much free time, and what we do have we want to spend playing.

Personally I'd like to see more costume on the monsters, because dressing up is a fun part of the hobby for me. Although I realise not everyone feels that way.

I'd also like to read the adventure before the day, if I've booked on to monster. At least then I can be prepared and make sure I've brushed up on the right verbals etc.
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Jasper
post Jun 16 2013, 11:08 PM
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#1, #3 and #4 yes. #2 over my dead body.


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giles
post Jun 16 2013, 11:33 PM
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I am, as is often the case, in agreement with Jasper.

Also I think the benefits for monstering/crewing are pretty good already - I can see the attraction in offering a list of increased benefits - but will they really make a difference ? I think it's just that peoples willingness to crew is outstripped by the demand for being able to play - I think I'm probably right (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm not) in saying that we run more frequently than any other system (multiple events running concurrently twice a week, even aside from extended length events) - that's a huge demand for crew. Add to that the focus on combat, which isn't everyones cup of tea and you have a demand for monsters that will never be fulfilled. Offering increased perks usually offers a short term salve at best - April last year a large no of increaed monster point benefits were introduced, has it made much of a difference ? The fact we're looking at new benefits already, suggests - either they weren't that good, or that motivating monsters doesn't by and large derive from game perks.

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DanM
post Jun 17 2013, 08:42 AM
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I would monster more, if a decent rate of conversion from Credits to MP existed.

People who want to monster, monster
People who can afford to play, play

I pay in cash, and don't require credits, therefore I only monster/ref for the mp.
An increased rate of credits to MP would encourage me to monster more for the non-financial benefit.


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Strife
post Jun 17 2013, 08:51 AM
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Radical idea- Running fewer adventures creates fuller parties and monster crews.

Not saying that I necessarily agree with this, but I do believe this is a major factor in finding crew, the huge demand for monsters.

On a personal level, points apps that are only signed off when you have crewed is a decent incentive for me. I think the level of credits is pretty decent for the most part... It helps that I quite enjoy monstering.

Edit: Just noticed that Giles has said exactly the same thing a few posts above.


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Alasdair
post Jun 17 2013, 12:33 PM
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I'm with Jasper and Dan... but I'd add:

- key to crew enjoyment is (a) the quality of the written dungeon, (cool.gif having the chance to read it, absorb plot and roleplay, and prepare 'big parts' in advance, and © continuity - best expressed in the pre-myths/myths formats, which allow NPCs to develop and roleplay to deepen (and smoother gameflow as non-standard impacts from Yellow Paper are clear).

So I conclude: use long duration adventures as the cornerstone to the system that they are, and encourage much earlier plotting by organising thresholds, themes and refs centrally (at least for some open campaigns) to open out the experienced player 'best of Laby' to a wider constituency. This also helps the wider 'round in the pub' that breeds favours etc.

Al
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Ryan
post Jun 17 2013, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE(Alasdair @ Jun 17 2013, 01:33 PM) *
I'm with Jasper and Dan... but I'd add:

- key to crew enjoyment is (a) the quality of the written dungeon, (cool.gif having the chance to read it, absorb plot and roleplay, and prepare 'big parts' in advance, and © continuity - best expressed in the pre-myths/myths formats, which allow NPCs to develop and roleplay to deepen (and smoother gameflow as non-standard impacts from Yellow Paper are clear).

So I conclude: use long duration adventures as the cornerstone to the system that they are, and encourage much earlier plotting by organising thresholds, themes and refs centrally (at least for some open campaigns) to open out the experienced player 'best of Laby' to a wider constituency. This also helps the wider 'round in the pub' that breeds favours etc.

Al


I disagree, Monster enjoyment is based entirely on a: do you know your fellow monsters and get on well with them, b: are the party being tedious with abilities and power (imo of course - but I actually crew so it's a valid one)... I'll always have a good day monstering with certain people regardless and I will always have a bad time if everything I play is assassinated (and not in a cool way) / beaten to death in a darkness / killed over a prot. etc. etc.

As for incentives we have loads, these probably are never going to fix the problem - which incidentally only exists at the high end of the system the low that got booked last Wednesday had full crew within 24 hours...

Out of curiosity is the high level credits being used effectively? I thought this was brilliant
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Strife
post Jun 17 2013, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE(Ryan @ Jun 17 2013, 01:57 PM) *
I disagree, Monster enjoyment is based entirely on a: do you know your fellow monsters and get on well with them, b: are the party being tedious with abilities and power (imo of course - but I actually crew so it's a valid one)... I'll always have a good day monstering with certain people regardless and I will always have a bad time if everything I play is assassinated (and not in a cool way) / beaten to death in a darkness / killed over a prot. etc. etc.


Yeah, totally agree with this.


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Mojo
post Jun 17 2013, 02:20 PM
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Guilt is currently the only reason for me to monster.

I do see the argument against better credit to mp conversion, but it is the only incentive that has any influence on me. Not saying it is right, then again you don't hear me complaining about pretty much anything so meh.


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JackFlashblade
post Jun 17 2013, 03:34 PM
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Right, so to make monstering a more enjoyable experience:

The ref's can get a copy of the adventure to the monsters in advance so they can read over it and come back with any questions.

I think also monsters will get more from the day if the ref (or a ref) takes the time to explain parts of the system relevant to the adventure which they are unsure of (not mantics, obviously).

I think thanking monsters also makes a difference, and Ryans post got me thinking on how the party can also give the monsters a better day, thus making them more likely to crew again, by not being tedious.

Another good point is I think some are more likely to monster for a campaign, where there is consistency in the storyline, which they can see unfold with each adventure, and with a party they enjoy interacting with.

More stuff to use monster point on. As pointed out the options for items bought with monster points were increased last year. No idea if this really made a difference, though I am suggesting other options are considered that may interest people who are less interested in items.

I think allowing people to start characters above 75 points with monster points would interest some people (not me personally, but I know people who are not keen on the lower threshold part of the system for example).

I also think increasing the range of items that can be bought with them may interest some people (well, probably), as may the option to extend the blow up date of guilds.

I could of course be wrong.

I think increasing the exchange rate for credit to monster points would generate more income for the club whilst encouraging some to crew so they can earn credits (to convert to monster points).

C
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Elferrick
post Jun 17 2013, 03:36 PM
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How about letting monster points being used by a character on the day he's monstering so they don't feel they are missing out. I mean not everyone can come down regularly and so they would most likely be playing and not want to monster. I for one would be more inclined to transfer over or just monster more if I was able to enhance one of my post 8th characters say at lunch time so not to slow things in the morning. This would be with points already acquired not what you will receive that day...


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Moony
post Jun 17 2013, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE(Ryan @ Jun 17 2013, 01:57 PM) *
As for incentives we have loads, these probably are never going to fix the problem - which incidentally only exists at the high end of the system the low that got booked last Wednesday had full crew within 24 hours...


That was an event organised primarily for the ARU group so that we could use up some money and have a few people start new characters. We generally can provide our own crew and have on a number of time brought down a minibus half full of players and half full of people crewing for different dungeons. This dungeon was mostly played by us and aside from the ref and aref was completely crewed by us.


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MattJ
post Jun 17 2013, 04:16 PM
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Crewing for people I don't know is often an incentive for me, although the main reason is generally to return favors done by others. The ARU crew recently crewed the Catskinner's overland (which was greatly appreciated). They were fab to roleplay with etc and it was great to see new faces (I hope to return the favor some time soon).

Matt
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Fenris
post Jun 18 2013, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE(JackFlashblade @ Jun 17 2013, 04:34 PM) *
Right, so to make monstering a more enjoyable experience:

The ref's can get a copy of the adventure to the monsters in advance so they can read over it and come back with any questions.

I think also monsters will get more from the day if the ref (or a ref) takes the time to explain parts of the system relevant to the adventure which they are unsure of (not mantics, obviously).

I think thanking monsters also makes a difference, and Ryans post got me thinking on how the party can also give the monsters a better day, thus making them more likely to crew again, by not being tedious.

Another good point is I think some are more likely to monster for a campaign, where there is consistency in the storyline, which they can see unfold with each adventure, and with a party they enjoy interacting with.

More stuff to use monster point on. As pointed out the options for items bought with monster points were increased last year. No idea if this really made a difference, though I am suggesting other options are considered that may interest people who are less interested in items.

I think allowing people to start characters above 75 points with monster points would interest some people (not me personally, but I know people who are not keen on the lower threshold part of the system for example).

I also think increasing the range of items that can be bought with them may interest some people (well, probably), as may the option to extend the blow up date of guilds.

I could of course be wrong.

I think increasing the exchange rate for credit to monster points would generate more income for the club whilst encouraging some to crew so they can earn credits (to convert to monster points).

C


Ryan is totally right, and Chris is just after something - but like a finely crafted points app, we just can't see what yet.

It's exactly the same as it's always been:
Students/people with no money, crew for credits so they can afford to play, when they aren't more out of pocket by getting down to the adventure.
Everyone else monsters when they actually fancy it, or feel they should do someone a favour/put something back.
You don't need a finely crafted adventure, weeks in advance with time to plan costume changes, script to say, motivations for characters - because we all know that on anything other than extended lengths there is no time for any of that.
You need to not be sitting around in a dark cave/windy field for ages, waiting for the party to comm their way around the dungeon/argue amongst themselves/ro each other into the ground. You don't need to be combat parts doing 8 all the time (although it helps), but you need the adventure to flow for you, just as much as the party does. Unsafe fights, w@nky blows, tedious abilities, players not reacting to anything you do regardless - it all just wears you down, and so - why would you bother?

The REF needs to know the dungeon, the Aref needs to know the dungeon and not just be the first monster who booked on for the extra credit. Make it easy for the monsters to have a good time and monster - and the rp, the good fights, the costume changes where possible, will all flow.

Constantly being in a darkness/mists that monsters can't see through/bus numbers and invulnerability/not even shrugging off the monsters effects - let alone roleplaying being hit by gouts of fire (heaven forbid!) etc. are all the things that grind monsters down.

Short answer - there's no problem, it's always been the same, Chris just wants something.
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DanM
post Jun 18 2013, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE(Fenris @ Jun 18 2013, 12:59 PM) *
Students/people with no money, crew for credits so they can afford to play, when they aren't more out of pocket by getting down to the adventure.


True. There is the section of people who monster just for the credits. Which is fine

QUOTE(Fenris @ Jun 18 2013, 12:59 PM) *
Everyone else monsters when they actually fancy it, or feel they should do someone a favour/put something back.


Also, true in part. Some people monster solely for the Monster Points or Ref for the ref points. When a monetary reward is of no use, this helps.
I really do think, a decent rate of credits to MP conversion would increase the amount of monsters from this category and appeal to people who 99% pay in cash.
It will save money for the caves, and cost nothing.


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Ryan
post Jun 18 2013, 12:11 PM
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Let's say hypothetically the CMT changed it to a 5 - 1 conversion meaning one day monstering in the caves gave you 100 Monster Points.

This would mean you could play twice for each time you monstered and add your 50 points at the start of the day...

Now I think this would be totally excessive number of points but lets go with it and say it was a good number would you actually then monster once for every two times you played... I suspect the reality is you would not.
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sonof
post Jun 18 2013, 12:14 PM
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Any changes to the number of monster points you get for credits should be:

A-Ref/Monsters only.
And only doable on the day.

I do agree though that a higher rate might encourage people. It had a brief effect when it went up before, but people soon realised it wasn't enough to be worth not playing if they had the cash.

Lee


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Fenris
post Jun 18 2013, 12:20 PM
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Let's not get into the whole 'only adding monster points on the day and in costume/how many you can spend at a time based on if there's an R in the month/if it's unbalancing for people to gain points for no character risk' debate - because it's rubbish frankly. It's a game. You monster, get points, put them onto who you want, when you want, however many you want, the world doesn't end, everyone is happy and still plays the game.
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sonof
post Jun 18 2013, 12:23 PM
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You missed the point baily, as normal.

A better rate for credits to MP's, but only for credits from monstering/a-reffing. So the only realistic time to do it is on the day you earn them.

Lee


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