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> Topic for discussing Black Guild changes
PhilB
post Jun 25 2011, 04:03 PM
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Please use this topic for discussing the proposed changes to evil faiths, black guilds and outlawing due to miracle list. The announcement is Here

Below is the proposal:-

'Churches and Hermit Priests are no longer automatically outlawed for their miracle list. Should a Church or Hermit priest have over 31 evil spirits on its miracle list, It may choose to be an outlawed faith. This choice must be made at the point of creation, and ordinarily cant be subsequently changed. For an outlawed Church, all it's members (Priests, ley Belivers etc) are automatically outlawd, and should they somehow be pardoned, then they are autmatically re-outlawed between events whilst they remain a member of that faith. For a hermit priest, should they be pardoned, the player may choose weather to become re-outlawed in between events.

An outlaws Church may choose to be a 'Black Guild'. This choice is also made at its creation, and cant ordinarily be changed after. Black guilds use the published rules, and can be found in the Priest Handbook (Words from Above).'
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Stuart
post Jun 25 2011, 04:16 PM
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I think it's a great idea. For donkey's years now the Empire has in many representations been basically lawful evil, and having this change simply introduces more flexibility into the system for people playing their characters.

Stuart
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BBB
post Jun 25 2011, 04:21 PM
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And thus clearing up some of the odd anomalies in the alignment system regarding churches.

BBB


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SiDeards
post Jun 25 2011, 07:10 PM
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So if im correct by this change, it means your not automatically outlawed anymore for having more 31 or more evil spirits on your List? instead you can choose to be outlawed or not? as the current system means if you do have 31 or more evil spirits on your list you ARE automatically outlawed.

Thus it would mean i could have say 40 evil spirits and still not be an outlaw if i chose to?

Si


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PhilB
post Jun 25 2011, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE(SiDeards @ Jun 25 2011, 08:10 PM) *
So if im correct by this change, it means your not automatically outlawed anymore for having more 31 or more evil spirits on your List? instead you can choose to be outlawed or not? as the current system means if you do have 31 or more evil spirits on your list you ARE automatically outlawed.

Thus it would mean i could have say 40 evil spirits and still not be an outlaw if i chose to?

Si


yup, means exactly that.

Phil.
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jasonprice
post Jun 25 2011, 07:49 PM
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Brilliant at last, Weldon Phil, and team ....... ph34r.gif


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SiDeards
post Jun 25 2011, 07:51 PM
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Excellent! Welcome the change

Now to devise my plan for total domination as a pure evil Hermit Priest! smile.gif

Si


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Hiro - Definitely not an Assassin
Glurk - Ebony Ogre Warlock
Simon - St Michael Paladin
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Abel
post Jun 25 2011, 07:53 PM
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Would these changes, which are cool btw, mean existing Hermit priests would be able to opt for a change in their base list to reflect the changes?

If so, that would be great or would it cause a power shift?

Either way, great change


Jules


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post Jun 26 2011, 07:34 AM
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Is there any benefit to be gained from chooising to be outlawed as an evil hermit priest by this system? I can see that there are reasons to remain as a black guild, but not as any other sort of outlawed evil priest.

How does the interaction of the Unholy Knight ability and being in a black guild work?

Lucy

P.S. <<Pedant Alert>> You might want to spell-check that before final publication...
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iainwimble
post Jun 26 2011, 09:55 AM
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So does a Black Guild at the start of creating it chose not to be a non outlawed guild now? .

Iain
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post Jun 26 2011, 11:12 AM
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QUOTE(iainwimble @ Jun 26 2011, 10:55 AM) *
So does a Black Guild at the start of creating it chose not to be a non outlawed guild now? .

Iain


No, the logic goes like this.

1) Do we have 31+ evil spirits?
2) If yes, do we want to be outlawed?
3) If yes, do we want to be a black guild?

Black Guilds are a subset of outlawed churches.

Lucy

(Now pondering the concept of a "white guild" by the same logic...)
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PhilB
post Jun 26 2011, 05:08 PM
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QUOTE(Abel @ Jun 25 2011, 08:53 PM) *
Would these changes, which are cool btw, mean existing Hermit priests would be able to opt for a change in their base list to reflect the changes?

If so, that would be great or would it cause a power shift?

Either way, great change
Jules


Broadly, i dont see a big reason to change existing hermits... in the main, they will likely have added the evil miracles they want nyway (without becoming outlawed in the process)


As ever, if someone feels they want me to look at a specific character, they should let me know/catch me at the caves....

Phil.

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PhilB
post Jun 26 2011, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE(LucyH @ Jun 26 2011, 08:34 AM) *
Is there any benefit to be gained from chooising to be outlawed as an evil hermit priest by this system? I can see that there are reasons to remain as a black guild, but not as any other sort of outlawed evil priest.

How does the interaction of the Unholy Knight ability and being in a black guild work?

Lucy

P.S. <<Pedant Alert>> You might want to spell-check that before final publication...


sort of depends on your view i guess... some may see being an outlaw as an advantage smile.gif but, joking aside, beyond being outlawed (which may allow certain non-standard progression) there is no advantage for a hermit.

The Unholy Knight ability stops a UC from being automatically outlawed because of their class. They would still be outlawed by faith (should they be in an outlawed church). If someone were to commune or have add-ons to disc. outlaw, then they could tell the difference... but beyond that, the UC would still be an outlaw (so not very much point in buying it...)

Thanks for the pedant alert... i will correct the typos/spelling failures later smile.gif

Phil.
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PhilB
post Jun 26 2011, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE(iainwimble @ Jun 26 2011, 10:55 AM) *
So does a Black Guild at the start of creating it chose not to be a non outlawed guild now? .

Iain


what Lucy said...

Phil.
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Jasper
post Jun 26 2011, 11:30 PM
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Devil's Advocate... (ha ha see what I did there?)

LE pro imperial characters are really boring/ten a penny and shouldn't be proactively encouraged.

Before any changes to rules regarding alignment some meaningful rules regarding alignment should be added.

Priests who buy extra miracles should be bound by their alignment.


J


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Jan
post Jun 27 2011, 07:07 AM
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Is it possible LE pro imperial characters represent a base line of what the population of imperial 'middle management' actually consists of (hence the idea that the Empire itself is LE in its meta-alignment, as opposed to the boring typical (ten a penny? smile.gif ) benign fantasy kingdoms seen elsewhere?

I do agree that some basic alignment tennets shold be put in place, not rules as such but for places on say a trio of axioms. and then a paradigm of tolerance, how much those axioms are an internal code for the character ("I don't kill peons") as opposed to how the character prescribes the activities of others ("You shouldn't kill peons").

Moral alignment those could diverge from spiritual alignment, an idea i keen on


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Jasper
post Jun 27 2011, 07:37 AM
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QUOTE(Jan @ Jun 27 2011, 08:07 AM) *
Moral alignment those could diverge from spiritual alignment, an idea i keen on


Yep. Me too.


J


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Stevelouch
post Jun 27 2011, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE(Jasper @ Jun 27 2011, 08:37 AM) *
Yep. Me too.
J



Looks like a very cool idea, i never really agreed wiht the logic of guilds being outlawed due to the amount of evil spirits on their list.

Also damn you! i have gone through a great deal to make the Iron and Empire non outlawed and now you do this!!

lol

what happens to current guilds and churches?

steve
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Pants
post Jun 27 2011, 12:02 PM
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Indeed what happens to Black guilds that exist?


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Harrumph
post Jun 30 2011, 01:54 PM
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yes could somebody do a list of which of the existing churches are black and which aren't?

thanks
Richard
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