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Guidance sought - Labyrinthe Forum
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DavidFisher
post Jan 10 2022, 09:29 AM
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Within a church, there can be many points of view and stances on a range of moral topics.

I am seeking opinion and debate (rather than dogma, needless quarreling or finger pointing) on the topic of mercenary necromancers. On previous missions, distinction has been made between those that utilise necromancy powers to inflict harm on their own soul verses those that inflict harm on the souls of others. The point was made that is a priest calls upon the powers of necromancy to cast "Ghoul's Touch" or embodies an undead they harm no-one but themselves. Specifically, this is why we were able to work with Max on the 4 day quest come to be called "The Gothic event".

On a mission yesterday, I encountered a Tryst priest called Kassadin. He used necromancy to walk through walls, paralyse our foes, to place a zombie as a protective layer around himself and even embody a wraith warrior (bound with magic). He did not summon undead outside of himself.

My instincts were to watch him and report back, to discuss his use of these powers within the group and with him, very openly. The Knight of the Land indicated if he created undead that then became uncontrolled and went on a rampage, they would see this as enough to be a calls to arms. He did not do this. The druids were balanced, with one very against his actions and the other agnostic (to this and pretty much everything else).

Obviously, breaking one's word to work together as a mercenary party and potentially becoming an outlaw must be a consideration as well. I'm not saying it is a red line but it is a consideration. We can do less good work if unable to enter the general mercenary community.

So, where do people stand on this please?

The Redeemed
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Forefallen
post Jan 10 2022, 09:44 AM
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Redeemed,

I hope you are well! It’s a pleasure to meet you.

Excuse me for the intrusion into your spaces, but I feel my quandaries may be of value to our brothers in faith.

Slightly different but a similar vein, I am opposed to demonic forces. I believe them to be fundamental forces of evil that exist almost expressly to worsen the life of the general folk snd people of the many worlds we know of. I wouldn’t suffer a demon to live, should I be able to slay it and the appropriate checks have been done to ensure no extenuating circumstances (A person enthralled by demonic power and the like).

I would place my desire for peace and safety of the people above my legal status, heaven cares not for the Empires law.

In Mercy,
Joshua Defontaine
Of Shaehan


--------------------
QUOTE(Jack)
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Will
post Jan 10 2022, 11:27 AM
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If I saw that he had summoned an undead, whether within himself or otherwise, I would seek to destroy it.

Being a mercenary does not give you an excuse. Our faith holds us to a higher standard than mortal law.

Villaine


--------------------
Will Power - will@labyrinthe.co.uk
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giles
post Jan 10 2022, 01:51 PM
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The Redeemed,

What I have taken from the teachings of our Church, and there are almost certainly other points of view and interpretations, is that Mortai patrols the border between life and death, ensuring that undead do not stray outside the restrictions to which they are bound. A necromancer, any necromancer, whether a mercenary or not, uses their knowledge, skill and dark power to allow undead to transgress those binding restrictions and as such are in diametric opposition to our Lord and faith. How a necromancer is dealt with may vary amongst individuals in the Church, if a living being, whilst our faith allows us to make an exception, I still believe in the sanctity of life very strongly, others may hold a different view. I would seek to prevent a necromancer from being able to raise the dead first and foremost, if that meant they died that is a regrettable consequence of their path, but I would not seek to kill them.
As for drawing forth undead spirits, the suggestion that it does no harm other than to the necromancer, that is to neglect the undead spirit itself. The undead are many and varied, some may well be tormented spirits, summoning it forth may extend that torment or prevent it from ever achieving peace or being at rest. What happens to a spirit when it is forced to trangress the boundaries placed upon, or even if it is brought across willingly may still be harmful to its chances of being laid to rest. Necromancy is never a victimless crime against life, even if the victim is not immediately obvious.
Likewise as Villaine has said, many of us have pledged ourself to a set of ideals, I freely accept that those ideals may not be the same for us all, which is why we have these discussions, not to apportion blame but to better understand each other and how we may best serve our Lord Mortai, for me whilst mortal law is not something I would break lightly, it is a very minor consideration for me in light of my faith and the responsibility I have to my Lord and his teachings. I hope my words have been of help in your quandary, it is not for me to preach to one of the faithful, your path is for you to choose.

Father Thoby
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dhurrell
post Jan 10 2022, 05:39 PM
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**How a necromancer is dealt with may vary amongst individuals in the Church, if a living being, whilst our faith allows us to make an exception, I still believe in the sanctity of life very strongly, others may hold a different view**

I echo the words here by Brother Thoby, I believe this is a personal choice.

Personally, given my lawful outlook and the years I spent as a priest of Shallya I would do whatever I could to influence a change in lifestyle before taking any life, including that of a living necromancer.

My own skills are much more focused on putting undead back where they belong; however I know some would argue why focus on the end product and neglect the cause of the problem?

Halvor
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Saladin
post Jan 10 2022, 07:57 PM
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OOC

So I don’t like to kill party members should I always check to see if there’s a necromancer in the dungeon and never ever do a dungeon with a person that is a necromancer as my Mortai priest?

It must surely be a middle way


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Hoz
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JamesBroderick
post Jan 10 2022, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE(Saladin @ Jan 10 2022, 07:57 PM) *
OOC

So I don’t like to kill party members should I always check to see if there’s a necromancer in the dungeon and never ever do a dungeon with a person that is a necromancer as my Mortai priest?

It must surely be a middle way



Yes avoid them if your committed to the role play of the faith it’s not all cupcakes and rainbows
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jj420
post Jan 10 2022, 09:28 PM
Post #8


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Being prity new to mercenary life this isnt something I have yet come across as a problem. Guarding caravans of pilgrims was much simpler. see an undead kill it, see a bandit cast repulsion till it got board and went away.

I'd like the think I would hold true to my faith above a caring for the laws of man. Undead are an abomination and so are those who summon them. Offer to turn the necromancer onto the correct path and if this fails then use the way of steal.

I hope this helps my friend.

And I look foward to seeing what Squire has to say on the matter

Russ Silverhoe
Gardian of pilgrim's
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Jasper
post Jan 10 2022, 10:13 PM
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Perhaps I am lucky, in that as a servant of both Mortai and Shaehan, the decision is not mine to make. I would not kill a living necromancer and would only seek to harm one who was undead in their own right if they were a threat to those around me, or other innocents who could not defend themselves.
You should act as you see fit, however. Mortai has never made a pronouncement on this matter, so it is a matter for your own conscience.


Sir Garath Vaine


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No of course I won't ref. Are you mad?
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JamesKearns
post Jan 10 2022, 11:07 PM
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Greetings this evening to you The Redeemed, and to you all, brothers and sisters of Mortai.

My meditations on your quandary are given after many hours kneeling in the chapel praying for Mortai’s divine guidance.

As I prayed, light first shone through the stained glass windows illuminating the face of her lady the sister of our noble lord who is portrayed in one of the glass murals. I took this as a sign that we should always look to the sanctity of life first above all other considerations. So I thought we must not simply butcher any living necromancer regardless of how he uses his powers, through summoning or embodiment of foul undead.

Then as the sun moved across the heavenly sky, next to be lit up was an image of a shackled man carrying water. I took this to be a sign that we should imprison any necromancers we come across rather than allowing them the chance for their creations to spill the blood of the living.

Finally as the day ended and the dawn rays turned to those of dusk, a robin flew into the large stained window, by accident, with a thud. This interrupted my commune with our lord as the day ended, so I stepped outside to see if the bird was ok.
To my dismay I discovered the robin had knocked itself out and fallen onto the Hawthorn bush below and was impaled on a particularly long sharp thorn which had pierced its brain through its eye. It must have died immediately for I tried to cure it, but to no avail. I took this as a final sign answering my questions in prayer.

If we meet necromancy do not first look to end the life of those who practice it’s foul art, instead it was clear we must imprison them so they do not corrupt the water of life flowing in the living. Failing this we must, before the day ends, run a holy sword through their neck until their blood runs down their chest.

Praise be to Mortai for answering my prayers so clearly.

Celestial Dawn Ray

Spiraqwe Paladin
Knight Templar of Mortai
Watching of Imrazil




--------------------
Shlucky Wolf
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muttleyskragg
post Jan 10 2022, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE(JamesKearns @ Jan 10 2022, 11:07 PM) *
Greetings this evening to you The Redeemed, and to you all, brothers and sisters of Mortai.

My meditations on your quandary are given after many hours kneeling in the chapel praying for Mortai’s divine guidance.

As I prayed, light first shone through the stained glass windows illuminating the face of her lady the sister of our noble lord who is portrayed in one of the glass murals. I took this as a sign that we should always look to the sanctity of life first above all other considerations. So I thought we must not simply butcher any living necromancer regardless of how he uses his powers, through summoning or embodiment of foul undead.

Then as the sun moved across the heavenly sky, next to be lit up was an image of a shackled man carrying water. I took this to be a sign that we should imprison any necromancers we come across rather than allowing them the chance for their creations to spill the blood of the living.

Finally as the day ended and the dawn rays turned to those of dusk, a robin flew into the large stained window, by accident, with a thud. This interrupted my commune with our lord as the day ended, so I stepped outside to see if the bird was ok.
To my dismay I discovered the robin had knocked itself out and fallen onto the Hawthorn bush below and was impaled on a particularly long sharp thorn which had pierced its brain through its eye. It must have died immediately for I tried to cure it, but to no avail. I took this as a final sign answering my questions in prayer.

If we meet necromancy do not first look to end the life of those who practice it’s foul art, instead it was clear we must imprison them so they do not corrupt the water of life flowing in the living. Failing this we must, before the day ends, run a holy sword through their neck until their blood runs down their chest.

Praise be to Mortai for answering my prayers so clearly.

Celestial Dawn Ray

Spiraqwe Paladin
Knight Templar of Mortai
Watching of Imrazil


The Celestial Dawn Ray.....

I wonder....... did you pray hard enough for the fallen Comrades murdered by your own fair hand? Was it then that you marvelled at the sanctity of life.....

I'm surprised you didn't snap the Robins neck yourself you vile creature. I would expect nothing less than bloody murder from you.

As the shadow of your actions haunts you, ever will I crawl under your skin.

Your beloved bound spirit.

Murderers Torment
Spirit Bound to The Celestial Dawn Ray.

Ps let the necromancers thrive..... its fine by me....

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AJull
post Mar 8 2022, 08:17 PM
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Dear Redeemed,
The meeting of Max on our quest was an interesting one, I had witnessed the use of a ghouls touch (I believe), and if memory serves me he was evasive when questioned and dodge my detect lies with half-truths and wit. This prompted a few discussions around the use of tormented spirits. On the whole he had a respect for our religion and he kept his powers to himself and out of my eye sight. I also saw Max casting many miracles that helped the group and aided in the completion of the quest, I did not witness the summoning or embodying of undead spirits. I have also openly discussed my feelings towards the living and how highly I regard this part of my faith.

The embodying of undead and the use of tortured souls is not acceptable, and should not be tolerated. The teachings of Mortai are quite clear, undead should be returned to his ever watchful gaze.

How we each approach your situation may vary, but action must be taken.

I will pray for you The Redeemed,
Squire
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