Monster shortage, Ideas welcome |
Monster shortage, Ideas welcome |
Sep 5 2014, 03:25 PM
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#21
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Mercenary Group: Members Posts: 1,393 Joined: 24-July 09 From: essex Member No.: 1,111 |
Monstered alot when I was getting lifts, then I cut to nearly nothing when I had to travel by train as I would lose money for the effort. Then Jules started a-reffing and reffing it made it a bit better for us, then I started driving making the whole thing much better, but we still have the added issue of childcare.
Interesting monster parts do make the day better, something to talk about on the way home compared to I played waves of elementals all day. I understand people do want to pay and play, especially if They cant get down very often, but a rota type thing should be looked at, the young players are made to take turns... -------------------- Laura
Known to occasionally play; Xue Yanshi- crazy fairy Kensai with death wish Ningyou Dansu - Crane Daimyo- Honoured One, Celestial Mind (Mystic plus) Supai- Awakener Serenity - Tainted Ramillion shard, Absent Blade (budoka/ warrior priest) Esmerelda Dawbringer - Human Noble, Pure Priest Lilith Darkthorn - Blauz, Assassin/Wizard Bayushi Nanori - Amles Human, Warrior Devana - Nightsoil, Silver Wizard Opal - Dwarf, 'stone' Guardian (forest guardian) |
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Sep 5 2014, 03:39 PM
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#22
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Legend Group: Members Posts: 3,493 Joined: 23-November 07 From: Petts Wood Member No.: 62 |
I would rather play, living away does that.
Enjoy monstering for extended/guild specials. Won't drive home for random 750's but don't mind making the effort if a full knights and most my mates on it. Plus the beer at end makes worth while. I think the face that it takes refs awhile now to write and not getting dungeons early. Would rather get dungeons Thursday/Friday so can read through. -------------------- Lord Knight problems... Contact Stacey. I'm free!
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Sep 5 2014, 03:40 PM
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#23
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Mercenary Group: Members Posts: 1,617 Joined: 14-April 12 From: under a rock Member No.: 2,327 |
A-ref - will advoid this as lots of work and works out better if I ref. I personally love a-refing - loads of work keepings monster informed and happy, setting, cleaning up etc and getting to swing a few swords around as a monster too. The only gripe I ever have is not having a copy of the dungeon in advance. Sam was brilliant in sending me drafts and I would add some of my own ideas too so I didnt just feel like the refs B1tch. Monster/A-refing extended lengths seems to have no fixed rules so maybe something a bit formal up front would be better. Additionally offering alternatives like "xx ISP item for character of your choice" or "xxx pts character" are great incentives for extended lenghts without costing Laby too much cash/admin. -------------------- Marcos
Lucien Hollowfall - Phoenix Warlock Flint - Ratfolk "warrior" Huskar - The KRAKAN Boglo - Weapons Priest Borin - Elder Fey Blue Mage |
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Sep 5 2014, 04:39 PM
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#24
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Heldsman Group: Members Posts: 946 Joined: 23-November 07 From: Coulsdon Member No.: 55 |
More people willing to ref YP's would free me up some time to monster.
They're the best way I can try and get new monsters into adults but its a slow process. Also having been let down a couple of times on reciprocal monstering arrangements made me less enthused tbh. As has been said before, even in YP's we sometimes have a shortage but we try and keep a track on those who haven't volunteered recently and they are moved to monster. They all understand the need to participate as part of a club. T |
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Sep 5 2014, 06:21 PM
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#25
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Militiaman Group: Members Posts: 414 Joined: 14-June 08 Member No.: 564 |
Used to monser when younger (and do the Wednesday clean up when I was younger and unemployed). Tried to monster once awhile ago and the results proved too bad
Physically not up to it - having to sit / lay down for a second or 2 after every other encounter due to back/legs not handling it, was not a good sign add to that the time it took to recover from the stiffness and bruising. Monstering is by far more physically demanding than playing Mentally not up to it - as i am almost brain dead after a week of mind numbing at the slave pit, I could barely remember the basic stats that were just told to me, let alone any verbals. and trying to calculate when i should take a dirt nap was not easy. Skill wise - I suck with weapons - being too bad (think i managed to hit a handful of times maybe two handfuls the whole dungeon) and offering no challenge what so ever is almost as bad as being able to take on a fully stocked party of duel wielding fighters surounding you and being able to parry them all. J -------------------- J - The thing known as Dog
- Tyrone (twiglet Wizard, because they are yummy) |
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Sep 5 2014, 07:47 PM
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#26
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Mercenary Group: Members Posts: 1,365 Joined: 22-February 14 From: Sidcup Member No.: 3,369 |
I monster as much as I possibly can given work and family commitments.
I have only played 2-3 times but I have earnt over 1,000 points since joining a few months back so I expect my ratio is pretty solid!! I have a good job so money is not really an incentive, I do it because I enjoy it most of the time and because it helps people out. I also do it to learn more about the system whilst not being able to play a suitable dungeon. It can be disappointing though when you are putting a lot in by monstering and days you are booked on to play get cancelled because of a shortage of refs or similar. The monstering experience really depends on the a-ref, a great a-ref really makes it loads of fun, keeps you engaged, happy and motivated. A poor a-ref assumes you know everything, kind of lets you get on with it without much direction. An a-ref needs personality and needs to keep you engaged. 8 hours of being left to your own devices is pretty dull. A good a-ref stays with you and gets you to all work as a team. I do tend to monster a lot but I am starting to learn who I like monstering for and who I don't so much. I guess for more seasoned players this is even more likely to be the case. As much as a-refs and refs judge players and monsters perhaps some 360 feedback might work that way a-refs and refs might be more keen to ensure monsters enjoy themselves? As for any incentive I think it is where it should be, I have excess credits that I do try to spend in the caves on equipment and on playing but will always have enough. I appreciate more credits might work for some people though. As some people have said new players is the key as they will want to monster to learn the system whilst it is less important for seasoned players. Anyway that is just some of my thoughts otherwise I will rattle on forever!! -------------------- Richard Eden (Possibly human maybe a vampire)
General Arkus (Toy Soldier Mystic) Rangar (YO YO - Vitae bleeder) Ref (Garden of Eden) |
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Sep 5 2014, 10:38 PM
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#27
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Hero Group: Members Posts: 2,052 Joined: 24-November 07 From: Royal Tunbridge Wells Member No.: 123 |
I'm in the mind of incentives are great - and I will take them if on offer - but generally for me, it's simply a case of time.
If I'm working, then I can't monster - if I have one day off and it's on a weekend - I 'might' monster as topping up on sleep is necessary... If i've got a couple days off and one falls ona weekend, then transport permitting I'll likely come down to monster/play. As unless booked in advance, my time off on weekends is so random I likely don't have characters in the threshold/theme of dungeons running - so will monster instead. The only incentive that would get me personally able to monster more would be pay me enough that I don't have to work anymore.... On a more serious note, and slightly derailing - I'd like to offer a thankyou to those who do monster when they are able. Be it for me or others. This is a Club, and monsters make dungeons ! How we can get more ? Make clones of people, so they can come monster and their clone can work/spend time with the kids/wife etc. Dave |
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Sep 7 2014, 08:52 AM
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#28
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Hero Group: Members Posts: 2,183 Joined: 23-November 07 Member No.: 112 |
As per every time this comes up, just let me put 90pts on and get no credits, 12 credits means nothing to most of us these days I spend more on 3 drinks down the pub.
I know people say oh but I pay cash which let the caves run so thats my contribution but honestly thats a bit short sighted as doing good dungeons is what makes the caves run, you can tell when people are having fun by doing good things just by the traffic on the boards and the dungeons getting booked, and good dungeons only happen when you have good/experienced monsters to challenge us. I'll agree that sometimes monstering is dull as [----] but as ryan said if everybody just sucked it up and did it once in a while then there wouldn't be a problem. Oh and as per everytime this comes up move the 3k monster point table so that you can buy them for any chr. |
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Sep 7 2014, 07:31 PM
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#29
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Hero Group: Members Posts: 2,756 Joined: 2-February 10 From: Guildford Member No.: 1,355 |
As per every time this comes up, just let me put 90pts on and get no credits, 12 credits means nothing to most of us these days I spend more on 3 drinks down the pub. I know people say oh but I pay cash which let the caves run so thats my contribution but honestly thats a bit short sighted as doing good dungeons is what makes the caves run, you can tell when people are having fun by doing good things just by the traffic on the boards and the dungeons getting booked, and good dungeons only happen when you have good/experienced monsters to challenge us. I'll agree that sometimes monstering is dull as [----] but as ryan said if everybody just sucked it up and did it once in a while then there wouldn't be a problem. Oh and as per everytime this comes up move the 3k monster point table so that you can buy them for any chr. This forum so needs a 'Like' button! -------------------- Andy
...................................... Godric Snowsson - Warrior/Wizard/Warrior Priest - 7.8k Ginkgo Panama - Kensai/Warrior Priest - 4.9k Grandbow - Human Spirit Warrior - 663pts Noyen Nopac Zu - Snake Clan Monk - 1.9k Coconut (aka ‘Dead Ogre Walking’)- Half Ogre Warrior - 4k 'It can't rain all the time!' |
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Sep 7 2014, 07:43 PM
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#30
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Mercenary Group: Members Posts: 1,617 Joined: 14-April 12 From: under a rock Member No.: 2,327 |
In summary seems most people want better "in game" rewards - don't get me wrong the cash is handy but £12 once you cover travel/food/beers doesn't leave much change.
and why not - why shouldn't people that come in on their free time to help monster have slightly better gear/characters when they get to play. -------------------- Marcos
Lucien Hollowfall - Phoenix Warlock Flint - Ratfolk "warrior" Huskar - The KRAKAN Boglo - Weapons Priest Borin - Elder Fey Blue Mage |
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Sep 7 2014, 08:52 PM
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#31
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Legend Group: Members Posts: 3,493 Joined: 23-November 07 From: Petts Wood Member No.: 62 |
I do tend to agree with Craigy.
Rather have something than 12 credits. Like he said spend more on few drinks.... -------------------- Lord Knight problems... Contact Stacey. I'm free!
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Sep 7 2014, 09:43 PM
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#32
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Heldsman Group: Members Posts: 843 Joined: 23-November 07 Member No.: 92 |
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Sep 8 2014, 07:15 AM
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#33
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Mercenary Group: Members Posts: 1,990 Joined: 12-August 08 From: Rochester Member No.: 644 |
I think Ryan has it right, lots of people never crew. I know playing gives the caves the money to run but just look at how many dungeons are cancelled due to lack of crew and you can see that people monstering is also needed to keep the caves running. Those people that never crew who say they don't need the credits and will just go home if they have to book off and monster when there is no crew need to understand that it's needed for the club to keep going.
I like the idea of taking no credits and signing 90 monster points on a character, that might get some of the people who never crew to help out. They might like the idea of sneaking a character up to high points and getting to start as the big bad. Edd |
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Sep 8 2014, 10:14 AM
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#34
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Arch-Enemy Group: Members Posts: 6,236 Joined: 23-November 07 Member No.: 40 |
I think Ryan has it right, lots of people never crew. I know playing gives the caves the money to run but just look at how many dungeons are cancelled due to lack of crew and you can see that people monstering is also needed to keep the caves running. Those people that never crew who say they don't need the credits and will just go home if they have to book off and monster when there is no crew need to understand that it's needed for the club to keep going. I like the idea of taking no credits and signing 90 monster points on a character, that might get some of the people who never crew to help out. They might like the idea of sneaking a character up to high points and getting to start as the big bad. Edd Tbh I think if you checked, the number of events cancelled due to lack of crew is probably lower than the number cancelled due to lack of players. Normally because 'someone' (usually the same subset of people I'll grant) books off to monster/ref. I can't see a reason why monstering shouldn't have the same game reward as playing (if you convert credits into monster points) but I don't actually think that it will improve the situation much - the same people who already monster/book of to monster will just get a better reward (which is not to say that they shouldn't). I hate monstering for the most part. The monster points and credits are nice but basically meaningless to me. I certainly don't ever monster just to get monster points. On the rare occasions that I do monster, it's either in order to pay back favours or (more rarely) because I think that for some reason it will be a fun way to spend my day. If it more often seemed like it would be fun, then I would more often decide to monster. I monster/crew at other systems proportionately much more than I do at the caves, for what it's worth. This isn't a new problem by any stretch of the imagination. It's been a problem since the original bunch of players started to get jobs and value their time a little more. Make it more fun and people will see it as a better use of their valuable time. I'm not entirely sure how to do that, but I think it involves some fairly large changes to the format. J -------------------- No of course I won't ref. Are you mad?
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Sep 8 2014, 10:30 AM
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#35
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Hero Group: Members Posts: 2,536 Joined: 27-August 09 From: Harlow, Essex Member No.: 1,166 |
You say you monster more at other systems than you do in this one, and you find less fun monstering at lab. What are the reasons you lack fun in monstering. The answer to that may help in the long run. What will make monstering more fun for you?
-------------------- Jules
Seth/800 Blades - 10k - Pure Priest/Budoka/White Wizard Kazan Toshimoko - 9.8k Council Yojimbo Xeno - 6.2k - Ivory Warrior/Wizard Dipp - 4k - Far Northfolk True Awakener Sosen Oku - 3.7k - Jade Dragon Shaman (Bene/Healing/Jade Wiz) Lt Benjamin Ford - 3.6k Nightsoil Comms Grey Knight Moru - 3.1k - Twilight Elf Utility Wizard - Abel - RIP (21/08/15) |
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Sep 8 2014, 12:22 PM
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#36
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Arch-Enemy Group: Members Posts: 6,236 Joined: 23-November 07 Member No.: 40 |
You say you monster more at other systems than you do in this one, and you find less fun monstering at lab. What are the reasons you lack fun in monstering. The answer to that may help in the long run. What will make monstering more fun for you? Proportionately - I attend Labyrinthe more than other systems - but yes. I think it's the format. Monstering is more fun when you have more interesting set pieces and fewer waves of faceless orcs/elementals/whatevercouldbeanything. Monstering at Labyrinthe is also often extremely demoralising, playing boring parts in the face of tired apathy on the part of PCs who are so tough as to make the fights a foregone conclusion*. Add to that costume which often smells of someone who wore it five years ago... This is sounding very negative when I don't mean it to be, but I'm trying to express the reasons why I don't enjoy monstering. Part of this is the linear format which is (almost) the only feasible way of doing things at the caves site. Part of it is the dominance of LRP tropes which should perhaps be handed a loaded pistol and left alone to do the honourable thing. Part of it is the hideous environmental conditions in which the kit has to be stored and the rapidity of turn around preventing it being washed too often. I don't really have any answers I'm afraid. J *which is a different question entirely. -------------------- No of course I won't ref. Are you mad?
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Sep 8 2014, 12:42 PM
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#37
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Mercenary Group: Members Posts: 1,431 Joined: 1-May 13 Member No.: 2,812 |
Having more monsters would make monstering more fun because you wouldn't need to keep running ahead of the party and flitting between sheets of paper to see what wave is next.
It would open you up to play more interesting parts who can interact with the party whilst another group goes off and still has monsters. It would mean being able to keep the party on their toes by them never knowing how many monsters will be in each encounter or what direction they'd be coming from. Expand the a-ref role so they can take a small group of the party on a sub-plot and have enough crew to make it work. Expand the role of armourer so that they help set areas and do area sweeps after - a lot of monsters hate setting because it's more of their time to set it and then pick it up again after. Set up a process to help wash kit regularly - I've said before I'm happy to help wash it because so much of it gets so rank. If we had one person setting/clearing up, one a-ref who can lead sub-plots if needed and still have 5 or 6 monsters then the ref could write a more interesting dungeon instead of having to write expecting minimal crew. -------------------- Stacey
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Sep 8 2014, 12:59 PM
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#38
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Legend Group: Members Posts: 3,350 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Purley Member No.: 472 |
Having other crew booked early helps. I have to admit that twice in the past 6 months I have suddenly found myself with a free day and considered booking to A-Ref/Monster a dungeon but changed my mind as no other crew have been booked. It's not fun running a game with limited crew and makes everyone work twice as hard. Another factor was as there was no ref booked I was worried that I might be asked to step up and ref and this has aso put me off and would not want to say no (this hasn't ever actually happened to me so it's not a criticism but it was something that went through my mind so thought I'd mention it).
Matt Quick edit - I forgot to mention I do monster primarily as favours. For example on a couple of recent dungeons I've booked to crew specifically because Fi and Lee have been playing and they've done plenty of crewing for me. The more you crew, the more people should do favours for you. |
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Sep 8 2014, 02:49 PM
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#39
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Mercenary Group: Members Posts: 1,431 Joined: 1-May 13 Member No.: 2,812 |
The more you crew, the more people should do favours for you. In theory that's how it should work but it doesn't seem to be the case; it still seems to be the same people regularly crewing. If it was favours returned, there'd be a much more even spread of who monsters. -------------------- Stacey
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Sep 8 2014, 03:03 PM
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#40
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Legend Group: Members Posts: 3,810 Joined: 25-November 07 Member No.: 155 |
I monster when I can (60+ miles & working every other weekend - sometimes every weekend!) and tend to monster, by preference, for people that I "owe" because they have reffed/monstered for me. I want these people to see that their efforts are appreciated.
Tried reciprocal monstering before - I did mine..... Stuart Maggs reffed a great campaign a few years ago & had huge monster loyalty due to it being well written & themed with relevant recurring NPC parts. Possibly reciprocal campaigns? But in short - you need people with time on their hands or want to put back into Laby even if it costs them. The monster points & credits (which you can exchange for monster points I believe) are a nice bonus though. Tim. |
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