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> New race idea
JamesC
post Jul 7 2015, 10:16 PM
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So after the substantial amount of comments pointing out the near impossibility of playing a winter elf warrior and after seeing the amount of damage that can be done on a simple pre 8th I have conceded the point. In the pub after the days monstering someone (I forget who sorry) mentioned that I could do anything with yellow paper.

So here is my solution, comments as always welcome, especially whether or not it will pass or tweaks to make it more likely.

Reasoning

"After the prison Dunatis created for the seasonal elves of Primus was finally opened the combined essence of the trapped elves was release back into Primus. Many of these coalesced spirits were strong enough to manifest as the Seasonal Elf we know today. What remained unknown was that there remained parts of weakened elves still in their original pure seasonal form, lacking the strength to manifest their essence has roamed Primus since the breach. A recent Epidal convergence near the Focus occurred precisely as one of these errant essences passed through an unwitting human. The result of the convergence was an invasion of the humans spirit by the elves essence. The combination of which caused an imbalance in the Exostance resulting in part of the humans spirit being converted into sand and drifting off towards the Epidal planes.

The resulting creature was a new creation, one directly linked to the plane of Primus as a manifestation born of it."


And so I give you the Primal Elf

The elf comes in the four flavours of the Seasonal Elves, they all have a common tree as follows:-

2: Primal speed (+1 DAC)
4: +2 DAC (total)
6: +3 DAC (total)
8: +4 DAC (total)

Gets seasonal innates at 50% of the rate i.e. for a winter elf

2: May cast Body of Ice 2/3 lvls (instead of 1/1)
3: Immunity of natural cold (1/2 supernatural)
6: May cast Javelin of Ice 1/6 lvls (instead of 1/4)

Regardless of flavour they have the following restrictions/benefits:-

Same as 1/2 Elf plus
May never wear metal armour (this is because significant metal interferes with their connection, trapping a Primal Elf in a metal box is akin to them leaving Primus)

As their power comes directly from there connection to Primus if they ever leave that plane they suffer the following effects.

Immediately lose access to their race based innates
Immediately suffer a -3/1 to their total life until they return to Primus
After 1 day lose their racial DAC bonus as their power wanes.


That's about it for the Primal Elf. However to complete my journey I will need an appropriate multi race so here goes.

Reasoning

"Through a consensual act of belief in Primus a Primal Elf can shed what remains of their spirit and convert it into power strengthening their link to the plane. By doing so what was left of the human is destroyed and one of the original Seasonal Elves are born. The human spirit so powerful that it is has empowered the recreation of those that once warred unchecked across the plane."

So here is the Primal Avatar

1: Becomes full Elf as per seasonal type (gains full appropriate innates, loses spirit, not F&B, lembas etc, does NOT change with season as there is only one essence here), Regeneration 1 tblp/1 loc (Their stronger link to Primus nourishes them, as per troll ability)
2: Minor power as per Primal Soul, must choose type
3: New innate as per season upto 6 mana 1/3 lvls
4: Medium power as per Primal Soul, same type (regen option acts as double causing 5th ability to be triple)
5: Regeneration x 2 (2 tblp/2 loc) (see lvl 4)
6: Primus Relocation (1/3 levels)

Post 6th: May buy on the post 8th tables as a normal Elf, but not a Seasonal Elf, may also buy regeneration abilites on the tribal tables as per 1st race Troll.

Primus Relocation: This ability allows the elf to commune with Primus and through will relocate to another place, there is no range restriction on this but it requires 30 seconds of meditation communing with Primus to achieve, during this time the elf cannot be engaged in combat, speak or do any other action. If the Elf is not on Primus this ability can be used to return their but requires 2 minutes of meditation due to the distance involved. This ability cannot be used to move to another location in a plane other than Primus.


Restrictions

Multi race is only available to Primal Elves

Should the Avatar leave Primus the following applies (note this supersedes the Primal Elf abilities i.e. no -3/1)

Immediately losses racial innates
Immediately losses regeneration abilites (connection is too weak to sustain the ability)
After 1 day lose their racial DAC bonus.
After 5 days loses any strength bonuses.
After 10 days their regeneration restarts but in reverse doing damage at the same level (the stronger the link was the greater the suffering.)
After 12 days if somehow still alive the Elf disintegrates into a pile of their element. The remains must be returned to Primus before any raise dead or rebirth may be undertaken.

Upon returning to Primus the innates and regeneration immediately return, the other skills take 1/5 of the time it took to lose them to return, i.e. DAC returns after 4 hrs 48 mins, strength after 1 day.

Should the Primal Avatar ever have their connection to Primus completely severed they collapse and are helpless. Their reverse regeneration begins immediately, and should they die they cannot be affected by Raise Dead.




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Estarriol
post Jul 7 2015, 11:28 PM
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QUOTE(JamesC @ Jul 7 2015, 11:16 PM) *
So after the substantial amount of comments pointing out the near impossibility of playing a winter elf warrior and after seeing the amount of damage that can be done on a simple pre 8th I have conceded the point. In the pub after the days monstering someone (I forget who sorry) mentioned that I could do anything with yellow paper.

So here is my solution, comments as always welcome, especially whether or not it will pass or tweaks to make it more likely.


Not much time to comment now, so I must be brief.

As before I like your ideas and the way you are referring to the source materials to come up with something new.

The way to play a Primal Elf would be a base race change, rather than something that would be published for all players. So it would be an ability you'd buy as your first post 8th ability that changed your base race, presumably from 1/2 Elf (but also check out Alfar for something that may be of interest).

Your Primal Elf idea is too powerful though - it's more the sort of thing you'd get in a multirace. Base race changes are usually not much more powerful than any other race - but something that has +4 DAC, partial elf innates and human life and can be healed would be clearly much better than any other published base race.

If you want to have 1st-8th innates or some DAC for a half-elf, consider what real limitations you could take to get there - e.g lower base life, reduced effect from various beneficial powerbases or healing potions etc. I'm not convinced that's a great idea though. An example of a sensible and cheap base race change is (if it doesn't exist already, I can't remember if it does) from 1/2 elf to 1/2 seasonal elf.

Once you have done that, an easy way to get further in the direction you want is to buy Primal Soul (you can do this from Table 1) and then write a levels 7 and 8 addon that does all your extra Primal Avatar (maybe "Seaonsal Avatar"?) stuff. This has the advantage of being available early and fairly cheaply, and you can change the flavour and abilities in levels 7 and 8.

Note that for both your proposed base race and especially your multirace - I am not fond of massively binary disadvantages that in practice will either never apply, or ruin your day if they do - i.e. the dungeon is on Primus - your disadvantage never applies; the dungeon is off Primus - you book off or are too weak to enjoy it. Flavour-wise it makes sense, but the system has to work too.

Cheers,
Paul C
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giles
post Jul 8 2015, 01:14 AM
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To be honest - I think you can do this more simply - Seasonal Elf - 50 points Table 1 multi race Elder Fey - gives you half a spirit
and a large choice of possible innates - maybe go for the Druidic heal options if you are Primal.

or if you wanted the Regen badly - simply go Primal Soul (40 points Table 1)- I don't think you will get full Troll regen, but for 7th & 8th of Primal Soul you might get better regen - also base it on seasons post 6th Prmal Soul - eg. when in snow/cold with Winter abilities better regen etc.

Again some cool ideas, especially background stuff - but statwise, again, I really would try to use what is there first as
1. It's a good indication of the sort of power levels to aim for
2. Yellow paper may well come back telling you, you can do this standardly.

Giles.

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RichardCraig
post Jul 8 2015, 06:31 PM
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Even easier; be a hollow bone goblin, gives you all the dac and no spirit and then maybe a warlock/powermaster or something to get some magical power.

M/R elder fey and you've got everything you want for 50pts past.

Maybe your class change gives you access to the seasonal elf innates as spells.

Or you can cast pact with the seasonal dragon and sacrifice 20 mana for full innates.

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JamesC
post Jul 8 2015, 07:03 PM
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Great advice thanks, one thing is very clear, there is a lot I don't know about this system and I suspect there is a great deal not covered by the books.

What I want in a character is a DAC based warrior, with high mobility and a strong alpha strike ability, that is spiritless and can regen. Ideally having the basics of this shortly after post 8th with the ability to improve them as I develop. Currently all the costume I have coming is white hence my winter elf obsession. Any ideas on how to go about achieving the above?

Also is changing your base race really that easy at post 8th I don't remember reading that in evolution.


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One man monster support.
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Onasuma
post Jul 8 2015, 08:38 PM
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You're after an awful lot really quickly basically. Dac is expensive as it applies so readily and to so much. Damage grades are expensive because we like pretending we're calling for a bus. Being spiritless is expensive because its thousands of points of immunities. Regeneration is expensive because its "free" healing.

Personally, I think you want to play a budoka, ignore the spiritless side of things and go primal soul for regen.

Pete Long
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Ryan
post Jul 8 2015, 08:40 PM
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Non standard class race change a half winter elf white Power Master - you can keep all the white costume, fight, get free class DAC and forearm parry, you get some spells to cast if you want to dip a toe in that prt of the system and they have total heals to boot... The only downside is your awful life scale!
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Mart07
post Jul 8 2015, 09:45 PM
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Good call Ryan - if you really want regen multi race primal soul. Life will be an issue though.

If this is your first character it might be worth going for something with a little more survive-ability - maybe half winter elf warrior (or warlock maybe if you are feeling daring?)

You could always multi race primal soul on T 1, and apply for full elf innates 1 level per table replacing the T8 ability. You would then gradually build up a few magical innate abilities.

The system is huge, and can be quite daunting. From the various posts I've seen so far you're obviously an experienced roleplayer, just new to Laby. It may be better to start simple and get used to things a little first (though some of your ideas sound very good!)

Mart

QUOTE(Ryan @ Jul 8 2015, 09:40 PM) *
Non standard class race change a half winter elf white Power Master - you can keep all the white costume, fight, get free class DAC and forearm parry, you get some spells to cast if you want to dip a toe in that prt of the system and they have total heals to boot... The only downside is your awful life scale!


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JamesC
post Jul 8 2015, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE(Mart07 @ Jul 8 2015, 10:45 PM) *
*snip*
maybe half winter elf warrior (or warlock maybe if you are feeling daring?)

Mart


Now that is an option I had not considered, only got around to looking at the Grimoire today and the warlock does in fact tick a lot of boxes, removes the whole front line thing I didn't want, works with elves, adds power and the alpha strike. Hmmm this could work.

Multi race in Primal Soul for DAC, regen and more alpha, multi class war dance for more DAC cold rage and better defence, im in the warrior bracket, with monk skills available. Would cost a lot but I think this works if I yellow paper in the rest. Could even keep the theme of the Primus based elf with a few less restrictions as winter is Primus based and not from a dragon.

DAC based (through multi-class,) winter elf white warlock, just have to figure out the lack of metal issue and we have the character.

Is there a way to have a warlock dual wielding or sword and board with weapons beyond a dagger?


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giles
post Jul 9 2015, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE(Ryan @ Jul 8 2015, 09:40 PM) *
Non standard class race change a half winter elf white Power Master - you can keep all the white costume, fight, get free class DAC and forearm parry, you get some spells to cast if you want to dip a toe in that prt of the system and they have total heals to boot... The only downside is your awful life scale!


And no items sad.gif (or scrolls)

Giles.
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Estarriol
post Jul 9 2015, 08:50 AM
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QUOTE(JamesC @ Jul 8 2015, 11:48 PM) *
Is there a way to have a warlock dual wielding or sword and board with weapons beyond a dagger?


They gain 'E'-skill so dual-wielding is there already, although the metal restriction may get interesting. There are various ways of dealing with that. (Edit: Depends on which weapons you want to dual-wield as to how)

Sword and board - you have enough metal allowance for the sword and shields can be wooden standardly, so metal allowance is not an issue. However Warlocks don't standardly gain the ability to utilise a shield. They can buy it as an ability, multiclass to level 1 of something that does have that ability, or gain the skill elsewhere (e.g. the first stage of Knights of the Land's Warmage status, which suits a Warlock anyway).
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Estarriol
post Jul 9 2015, 08:53 AM
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Double post.
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Mart07
post Jul 9 2015, 08:57 AM
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Though if you want to follow the wardancer route - would you really want a shield?* As Paul states Warlocks already get E skill, so thats one thing less to worry about.

* Just to point out shields are an amazing aid to staying alive!

Whatever you decide, have fun on your first adventure - you'll only really know what feels right when you mould your choices/backgound/stats in to the character and are on dungeon in the thick of it.

M


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Jasper
post Jul 9 2015, 09:27 AM
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QUOTE(Estarriol @ Jul 9 2015, 09:50 AM) *
They gain 'E'-skill so dual-wielding is there already, although the metal restriction may get interesting. There are various ways of dealing with that. (Edit: Depends on which weapons you want to dual-wield as to how)

Sword and board - you have enough metal allowance for the sword and shields can be wooden standardly, so metal allowance is not an issue. However Warlocks don't standardly gain the ability to utilise a shield. They can buy it as an ability, multiclass to level 1 of something that does have that ability, or gain the skill elsewhere (e.g. the first stage of Knights of the Land's Warmage status, which suits a Warlock anyway).



Don't Warlocks get U skill these days? I admit I'm looking at a copy of the WG from the future but I thought they already got U skill.


J


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Leo
post Jul 9 2015, 09:44 AM
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QUOTE(Jasper @ Jul 9 2015, 10:27 AM) *
Don't Warlocks get U skill these days? I admit I'm looking at a copy of the WG from the future but I thought they already got U skill.
J


It's a specialist.
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giles
post Jul 9 2015, 10:13 AM
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Re. your metal issues & shields - you get a Specialist skill at 6th, 7th, 8th -
Specialists are 6/2 Life, WM, Unarmed Combat, Proficiency (+1 Casting Level for offensive spells),
Metal Resistance - increases metal allowance to allow up to 2 O Class weapons + Studded Leather armour or Studded Leather & a B class weapon,
Utilise Shield
Chosen of the Dragon (+2 DAC)

you might want to think about joining Knights of the Land and taking the latter 3 Specialists

Giles.
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Jasper
post Jul 9 2015, 10:38 AM
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QUOTE(Leo @ Jul 9 2015, 10:44 AM) *
It's a specialist.



Ah. In the future, all Warlocks will have shields.


J


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Estarriol
post Jul 9 2015, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE(Jasper @ Jul 9 2015, 11:38 AM) *
Ah. In the future, all Warlocks will have shields.
J


Ooh, they're playable now. Tempting.
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