The future to come Options

[Carlo]

Time is running out. There's loads of stuff I can cheat at, but time isn't one of them. Yet.

We need to make a decision, we've discussed what we think, but somewhere, someone has to decide what we are doing.

Basil? What shall we do? I know you've probably been real busy with recent events, and they couldn't have happened at a worse time, but we need to put them aside for a bit and know what we are to do.

Who is meeting at the abbey just over a week from now? I'd like, that when we meet we already have a firm idea of what to do.

Running out of time to scry too, only a couple more days then the Lady will be busy with the Valar before she can pay me any attention for a bit.

If anyone has any questions, any scrying they want done, any visions they want to see, please, speak up now.

Bradley.

[JustinC]

I would suggest the following:

Evensong takes the mantle of the "Dark Valar".
The faithful speak to the Valar and see who wishes to remain a presence on Primus.
Those that wish to remain siphon a portion of themselves into new hosts, thus protecting them from Christian's rites.
Those that do not wish to remain immediately absent themselves from Primus, thus escaping Christian's rites.
The faithful find and stop Christian.

We then discuss, with Evensong, what should happen. If necessary, we shall bind him and I shall place a portion of myself to guard him.

Eldias

[miles]

I will be at the abbey ready to help where i can.


Lament

[Carlo]

Few things...

Eldias, The Lady said you knew stuff about the Kin, or Slaugh? She didn't say anything else, just to ask you about them - Could you tell us what you know?

We need to remember, that timing, and the order in which we do things, matter.It'll save a whole lot of pain and suffering.

She made of point of saying, we need to remember we, as priests of the Lady believe in, and act as Priests of the Lady should.

Stuff to bring, Holy Water, Purgatives (not mystic honey) ways to summon elemental children, axes and fireblades. Also some of that funny binding powder to carry round elf essences. Of course, It's my job to make sure we have this stuff but if you have stuff in your mercenary cupboard it couldn't hurt to bring it along too.

B

[miles]

Also remember we are meeting at the abbey that is right in the path of the Pine warrior army, so will be bringing some form of axe cos you never know when it will be handy.


Lament

[Carlo]

Some more bits...

The Abbey is fine, and well looked after by Mattie. It's all safe and stuff.

The first thing we will do, is Scry and locate the places Christian has set his forces. Once that is done, we need to work out what we want to do. Then, on Starsday when he begins the rituals we need to travel to, and then stop them.

I tried looking into how we bind the valar into ourselves, or the lady herself. It's all a bit unclear really, normally it would need a complex rite involving them being dead, but, since someone is doing something to change them its a bit different. This will be easier to find out once he has done.

The whole Dark Valar thing, not quite sure how we do it. It's also unclear that one will even arise.

Bradley

[AndyWashington]

I will be there at the appointed time. I can probably find an axe although I cannot wield it. I have several scrolls of fireblade in case Jerico is not around. I can summon elemental children of every hue except sylphs and larger gnomes as well.

I think we should be looking to save as many of the Valar as desire it but oviously I am not of the priesthood.

There are apparently rituals bound against each of the vulnerable Valar but also one extra. I suspect this ritual will be key. I cannot scry but if it binds the other rituals together or is the one to raise the new Valar then this will be a keystone in Christian's plans.

I know the location of a Dwarven Shrine to Aule so if we need to create ritual artifacts of power to help in the bindings then this may be a powerful enough place to do it, could you check if it is relevant?

Lastly the latest Primal Times refers to several areas where ther has been a large scale hiring of guards, it may be worth trying to divine if this is the work of Christian seeking forces to protect his ritual sites.

Asta

[dnsmantra]

If there's anything you can't find out about Bradley, or that you want a hand looking into, just let me know and I'll ask the Lady herself. Her gaze can't be deceived and sees much that cannot be seen. I, sadly, cannot travel to the Abbey; she has me engaged in other tasks, but I trust that you will all triumph in the end and that the right decisions will be made.

Aurora

[OxMatt]

I will be at the Abbey. As for what to do, for the first time, I do not know. My Lady wishes one thing and I another. I can only trust that we shall make the right decisions when needed.

Ignatius

[Stuart]

I very much regret that I cannot be there. I would lend my voice to that of Eldias - seek to defend those of the Valar who wish to retain a presence on Primus. It would be preferable, in my opinion, for one of them to depart rather than remain and have their essence tainted.

My strong recollection is that the two clearest threats were:

Dispute between ourselves over what we should be doing, and
The issues presented by Christian who is aware of the weaknesses in the faith's unity.

I did discuss this with Falorn, and I appreciate her candidness in her response. Whilst it is clear individuals will not bind themselves to act in a way that runs counter to their honestly and deeply held beliefs, if the position of the Church could be stated, by Basil perhaps, then that will at least provide some guidance to those who are able to attend.

It would be a tragedy should the faith suffer as a whole due to relatively minor and predictable disagreements at a time where action is needed rather than argument.

Keledrien

[Carlo]

I will be there at the appointed time. I can probably find an axe although I cannot wield it. I have several scrolls of fireblade in case Jerico is not around. I can summon elemental children of every hue except sylphs and larger gnomes as well.

I think we should be looking to save as many of the Valar as desire it but oviously I am not of the priesthood.

There are apparently rituals bound against each of the vulnerable Valar but also one extra. I suspect this ritual will be key. I cannot scry but if it binds the other rituals together or is the one to raise the new Valar then this will be a keystone in Christian's plans.

I know the location of a Dwarven Shrine to Aule so if we need to create ritual artifacts of power to help in the bindings then this may be a powerful enough place to do it, could you check if it is relevant?

Lastly the latest Primal Times refers to several areas where ther has been a large scale hiring of guards, it may be worth trying to divine if this is the work of Christian seeking forces to protect his ritual sites.

Asta

Right, so the shrine was one to Mahal, another name for Aule. No dwarfs have worshipped him for ages, on account of that Moradin bloke turning up.

Not much we can do with it now, the damage has been done. Some evil priests turned up, and ritually empowered 15 objects to be significant foci for the Aule. Then, Asta you turned up and chatted with the gnomes there.

In the long run, it could be set up as a shrine to Aule/the crafter - and it's a ritual place of power.

The Lady also says, that if we were ritually striking someone using a ritually significant object to represent them, then you'd only need 1 object, not 15.

Bradley

[AndyWashington]

croos posted with Carlo

[JustinC]

It is possible that the 'extra' rite is in fact a rite targeting The Fallen.

The Slaugh are demon-tainted Elves. A short version of their history is that they left Primus, became tainted by demons, and returned with the Myronese. It is their belief (and this seems supported by my experiences) that in slaying Primal Elves they themselves grow stronger. They are skilled in combat, intelligent and cunning. They are also vulnerable to water and ice.

If you wish to know more, I will endeavour to assist - I have fought a great many of the Slaugh.

Eldias

I'm so sorry that I can not be there. The Abbey is quite safe and ready for your arrival.

As for what the church should do..............

I feel that if Basil is waylaid due to the other issues that are going on at the moment and is unable to guide us in what needs to be done, we should take the path suggested by Eldias.

We should also agree on what path we need to take before you all meet. It is imperative in my opinion that the path chosen should be strictly adhered to and any suggestions that wavering from that path should be ignored. It is very important that we all sing from the same hymn sheet.

Good luck to you all, I shall leave some provisions and equipment at the abbey, that will hopefully aid you all.

In Starlight,

Mattie.

[Bruno]

All

Some observations and information, first. I realise some of this has been referred to by others already.

How to approach the dark valar issue.
It is not essential to have a being take on the mantle of dark valar, and if no-one does so, this is not catastrophic, simply different in the outcome:
* Should no-one take on the mantle, the force of evil will be 'unfocused', and more available - there will be no grand plan, there will be no figurehead to oppose, I would draw a comparison with the evil spirits called on by a hermit without any involvement of a deity or intelligent force.

* If the power is channeled and focused, then the force is 'focused', more worshippable, and bound to an entity which can be challenged and opposed. That figure will ultimately be far more dangerous than 'unfocused' power, but equally far more thwartable.

* If one of strength of faith and will takes on the mantle, they will be slower corrupted. There would be a period in which they might direct this evil force and use it as they wished. To be clear, this is a morally questionable act - I might compare it to controlling a ghoul and directing it to slay other evil beings. At any rate, they will over time become corrupt and truly evil.

* The proposal of captivity is not completely unfeasible, but a focused force of divine evil held prisoner is exactly the kind of figurehead which will lead to evil forces seeking to free it and ally with/use it. Ultimately this plan failed with the Enemy, but it succeeded for a long time before it failed. It would not be a case of locking up a man, once this force was within someone and changing them, it would have a quality of divinity and any prison suitable for an individual mortal would become less suitable over time.

I will not be present, and will not try to dictate from here what should happen. I personally agree with the recommendation of Eldias and others above on the topic of the other valar, in that protecting them is something the Lady would wish.
I personally have strong doubts about binding the dark valar force to any of the faithful. It is reasonably clear to me that not doing so would not have catastrophic consequences especially if it is left unfocused, and by choosing to see the power bound to one of us, we are losing a strong and righteous person from the fight, we are actively creating a dark being which would in time work against our cause, and we are considering "using" the forces of darkness via this sacrifice.
However, I am aware of the arguments in both directions, I cannot see anything that makes this decision unequivocally clear in either direction, and as I said, will not try to enforce a church ruling on this.

In Starlight,
Basil

[Bruno]

On the matter of disunity. It is not news that within the faith and our friends we have varied views on a number of topics...
I had intended to make a public statement next week, after the current issue has reached a definite conclusion (once a full 2 weeks have passed), the purpose of which will be to protect our position with the vitaed community and the lawmakers of the Empire.
I cannot and will not claim that it is a divine edict that no member of the faith should take it upon themselves to rid the world of a vitaed necromancer, for instance. It is not, and the Lady smiles to see a tainter of souls removed from the world. However, as high priest it is my role to consider the worldly aspects of the Lady's faith, to protect the faithful where I can, and to act with the intent of building the church's strength so that we can achieve the Lady's wishes forever.

What specific thing causing disagreement amongst us needs clarification before our force sets forth?

In Starlight,
Basil

[Fionamullin]

To be honest Basil, lots of things.
Should we be sending the valar to join with the Lady?
Should we be sending them away from Primus?
Should we be seeking to bind them to people, or siphon off some of their power and then send them to the Lady or away?
Yes we should stop Christian, wind touched he is, he still needs to be stopped!
On a more personal note is there anything wrong with letting the evil man who is doing the right thing go, vitae or not, I just fail to see the value in killing someone who may be redeamed?
In confusion and starlight,
Zhara

[OxMatt]

I suspect that christian intends to use the differing attitudes within the faith to those of dark heart to his advantage. There is little we can do about this beforehand, but it does not overly concern me. He may find that our practiced will to work together despite such differences surprising, and sufficient to thwart plans in that direction.

More personally worrying is that I fully expect him to engineer some kind of situation which attempts to force a choice between the lady of the stars and the lady of tears. I would do so, were I in his position, and of dark heart.

Ignatius

[Carlo]

On the matter of disunity. It is not news that within the faith and our friends we have varied views on a number of topics...
I had intended to make a public statement next week, after the current issue has reached a definite conclusion (once a full 2 weeks have passed), the purpose of which will be to protect our position with the vitaed community and the lawmakers of the Empire.
I cannot and will not claim that it is a divine edict that no member of the faith should take it upon themselves to rid the world of a vitaed necromancer, for instance. It is not, and the Lady smiles to see a tainter of souls removed from the world. However, as high priest it is my role to consider the worldly aspects of the Lady's faith, to protect the faithful where I can, and to act with the intent of building the church's strength so that we can achieve the Lady's wishes forever.

What specific thing causing disagreement amongst us needs clarification before our force sets forth?

In Starlight,
Basil

There isn't anything specific. This happened when we travelled. We met some evil men, but they were guarding and protecting the people of Gothiel from the forces of Myron. Quite literally, half the church started the fight, and the other half (if they got there first) ushered them away to save them from death. It's situations like these where the faith splits in two. It's nice and easy when they are bad, bad guys, and we all work together incredibly well - but it's in situations like those where we suffer.

I agree, I dont think we should make one of us a dark valar. Most of the futures don't see this happening, and the ones that do are far worse, and far more painful than any other.

Essentially, we have a load of Valar. We, should try and save them all because it's the right thing to do. Most of us, are just men and time is something that isnt on our side, we have a set time to achieve as much as we can and saving 14 valar I dont think is possible - it might be, and things will be clearer when Christian starts his rites.

We have the power, to fix things, but nothing is certain. Some of us can host and save some of the Valar, but its not clear what happens. It might destroy us trying, it might not.

Eldias suggested talking to the Valar to see what they want - I don't think it really works that way, I think they are mostly selfless entities that will sacrifice themselves to make sure the others live. We, as mortals give them power and our choices will reflect what they become and them being saved or not.

I think, we are in agreement at least, that we save as many of the Valar as possible. But, we need to work out who we save first and go from there. Any time we spend arguing over which to save, is time taken away from actually saving as many as possible, so maybe that's what we need to do here? To recap (and, im sure people know, but in case they dont)

Eldias, Zenith, Valesius are safer, because they are 'newer' and have more power than the others.

Manwe - Lord of the Skies
Ulmo - Lord of the Waters
Aule - The Crafter
Orome - The Hunter
Mandos - Keeper of the Dead
Lorien - The Guardian of Dreams
Tulkas - The Guardian of the Stars
Varda - The Lady of the Stars
Yavanna - Mistress of the Forests
Nienna - Lady of Sorrows
Este - (Sorry, I dont know this one)
Vaire - Weaver of the future
Vana - Protector of Children
Nessa - Lady of the Dance

These are who we need to save. We might have to choose.

Bradley

[AndyWashington]

I believe that Christian also said that Varda herself was tied sufficiently strongly to Primus that he could not assault her directly.

Asta