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Contramastery vs distancing. - Labyrinthe Forum
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> Contramastery vs distancing.
Simon
post Oct 25 2021, 12:58 PM
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Which would you buy:

Enhanced distancing

or

Contramastery all swords


...and why? Which is better?


(for the record, in this specific case, ED is 150 points, CM swords is 250 points)

Discuss.
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Onasuma
post Oct 25 2021, 01:00 PM
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These days, enhanced distancing because all the nicest armoury weapons arent swords.

Heather
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Simon
post Oct 25 2021, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE(Onasuma @ Oct 25 2021, 02:00 PM) *
These days, enhanced distancing because all the nicest armoury weapons arent swords.

Heather


Ha, fair point, (and one for which I'm responsible). I did deliberately make a big batch of hafted armoury weapons for this precise reason.


... which reminds me, I must finish the batch of armoury sword repairs I have in the workshop and let the pendulum swing back the other way...
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Onasuma
post Oct 25 2021, 02:23 PM
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Just let me find 250pts first....
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Gordon
post Oct 25 2021, 03:10 PM
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Contramstery all Swords because:

1) It's a 6pt Numerical from all swords be they O or B class
2) Enhanced Distancing is only ever getting you a 3pt Numerical and only if they are using O class
3) Swords are the predominant mode of attack of choice for many monsters when they choose their own weapon selection
4) B class is generally the modus operandi of the "bad guys" TM as monsters rarely take shields

Ultimately if you are ending up with 12/6/3 distancing I'd buy both for when Contramstery isn't any good, be it weapon selection or your opponent being simply immune to counter/contra.


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Gordon Court
Port Miere business: portmierecitycouncil@gmail.com
Known to play: Amorphus, Radiant & Zaton
Cast of 2009: Amorphus, Ash, Cyric, Godstone, Kessel, Prowl, Mithaniel, Radiant, Raven, Strale, Void & Vorell
Cast of 2010: Amorphus, Aqueous, Blaen, Godstone, Hex, Kessel, Mithaniel, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Vanderlaine & Void
Cast of 2011: Cyric, Hex & Prowl
Cast of 2012: Kessel
Cast of 2013: Amorphus, Golgari, Kessel, Marimar, Radiant, Strale & "Terry"
Cast of 2014: Amorphus, Hex, Godstone, Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Radiant & Strale
Cast of 2015: Amorphus, Karador, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2016: Zaton
Cast of 2017: Amorphus, Equinox, Godstone, Golgari, Hex, Karador, Prowl, Radiant, Variel & Zaton
Cast of 2018: Amorphus, Despair, Equinox, Golgari, Karador, Lannary, Prowl, Templeton, Vanderlaine, Void & Zaton
Cast of 2019: Amorphus, Despair, Kodai No Ha, Lannary, Prowl, Radiant & Zaton
Cast of 2020: Amorphus, Isamaru, Karador, Kodai No Ha, Lannary, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2021: Amorphus, Grizzled Wolf, Isamaru, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2022: Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Lannary, Leovold, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Strale, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2023: Isamaru, Leovold, Numai, Radiant & Zaton
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Simon
post Oct 25 2021, 05:51 PM
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Ok then, how do they compare to the Armour Master/Knight's Armour skills? More expensive at 600 points for six points off everything, but six points off ~everything~ ...
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Gordon
post Oct 25 2021, 05:59 PM
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Huge fan of Armoury Mastery as a catch all reduction.

You need to invest points in making sure your armour applies, so immunity to accuracy or fotitude.

It doesn't work against pure weapons which counter/contra/distancing do unless you go Armour Master M/C (if you can) which again is a solid choice if you are/can remain bracket pure.

Even better when Grulls can buy you an extra 3pts of it (Another Radiant Special).

Each have their pros & cons but I now have two characters with Armour Mastery one at 9pts and another at 12pts and if you are going to wear the armour it would always be my personal choice of reduction.


--------------------
Gordon Court
Port Miere business: portmierecitycouncil@gmail.com
Known to play: Amorphus, Radiant & Zaton
Cast of 2009: Amorphus, Ash, Cyric, Godstone, Kessel, Prowl, Mithaniel, Radiant, Raven, Strale, Void & Vorell
Cast of 2010: Amorphus, Aqueous, Blaen, Godstone, Hex, Kessel, Mithaniel, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Vanderlaine & Void
Cast of 2011: Cyric, Hex & Prowl
Cast of 2012: Kessel
Cast of 2013: Amorphus, Golgari, Kessel, Marimar, Radiant, Strale & "Terry"
Cast of 2014: Amorphus, Hex, Godstone, Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Radiant & Strale
Cast of 2015: Amorphus, Karador, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2016: Zaton
Cast of 2017: Amorphus, Equinox, Godstone, Golgari, Hex, Karador, Prowl, Radiant, Variel & Zaton
Cast of 2018: Amorphus, Despair, Equinox, Golgari, Karador, Lannary, Prowl, Templeton, Vanderlaine, Void & Zaton
Cast of 2019: Amorphus, Despair, Kodai No Ha, Lannary, Prowl, Radiant & Zaton
Cast of 2020: Amorphus, Isamaru, Karador, Kodai No Ha, Lannary, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2021: Amorphus, Grizzled Wolf, Isamaru, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2022: Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Lannary, Leovold, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Strale, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2023: Isamaru, Leovold, Numai, Radiant & Zaton
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dnsmantra
post Oct 25 2021, 06:58 PM
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I think this is a good case of either can work. A lot depends where you take it. I'm personally a fan of distancing (and/or armour mastery), because it just works. No need to worry about weapon types, or if the target is a weapon master. And I've had good mileage for two characters in extending it up and beyond the standard. For example, things like:

Kensai: Every X pts of DAC over 12 increases distancing by 1/1/1.
Grace Angel: I see glimpses of the future, and gain a 0/1/2 increase to distancing per m/c level.

Both are capped at 12 total, and both are bracket locked battle-master types so mileage on what you'll get without the restrictions will vary. But counter/contras can work too if you go for it, and I've had stack counter/contra with distancing to max 12 pts off passed and upgrade contra swords to blades to weapons, again for bracket locked chars. So the answer may be "buy both".

Armour mastery is also good, as is just going all in on Battlemaster and aiming for a 6pt perm blade fury and upgrades from that.

Really it's horses for courses. Pick your poison and what flavour fits your char.

Huw
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Simon
post Oct 25 2021, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE(Gordon @ Oct 25 2021, 06:59 PM) *
Huge fan of Armoury Mastery as a catch all reduction.

You need to invest points in making sure your armour applies, so immunity to accuracy or fotitude.

It doesn't work against pure weapons which counter/contra/distancing do unless you go Armour Master M/C (if you can) which again is a solid choice if you are/can remain bracket pure.

Even better when Grulls can buy you an extra 3pts of it (Another Radiant Special).

Each have their pros & cons but I now have two characters with Armour Mastery one at 9pts and another at 12pts and if you are going to wear the armour it would always be my personal choice of reduction.



Sadly, can't m/c out of the priest bracket, but I've a 7th/8th Weaponpriest m/c that's all about armour and allows buy-as Warrior, but two tables lower; it gives 'armour always, Always, ALWAYS applies' though.

The Radiant armour stacks with tables Armour Mastery? That's promising. I'm betting you can't make neutral armour though...
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Gordon
post Oct 26 2021, 07:08 AM
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QUOTE(Simon @ Oct 25 2021, 08:22 PM) *
Sadly, can't m/c out of the priest bracket, but I've a 7th/8th Weaponpriest m/c that's all about armour and allows buy-as Warrior, but two tables lower; it gives 'armour always, Always, ALWAYS applies' though.

The Radiant armour stacks with tables Armour Mastery? That's promising. I'm betting you can't make neutral armour though...


Replied privately.


--------------------
Gordon Court
Port Miere business: portmierecitycouncil@gmail.com
Known to play: Amorphus, Radiant & Zaton
Cast of 2009: Amorphus, Ash, Cyric, Godstone, Kessel, Prowl, Mithaniel, Radiant, Raven, Strale, Void & Vorell
Cast of 2010: Amorphus, Aqueous, Blaen, Godstone, Hex, Kessel, Mithaniel, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Vanderlaine & Void
Cast of 2011: Cyric, Hex & Prowl
Cast of 2012: Kessel
Cast of 2013: Amorphus, Golgari, Kessel, Marimar, Radiant, Strale & "Terry"
Cast of 2014: Amorphus, Hex, Godstone, Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Radiant & Strale
Cast of 2015: Amorphus, Karador, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2016: Zaton
Cast of 2017: Amorphus, Equinox, Godstone, Golgari, Hex, Karador, Prowl, Radiant, Variel & Zaton
Cast of 2018: Amorphus, Despair, Equinox, Golgari, Karador, Lannary, Prowl, Templeton, Vanderlaine, Void & Zaton
Cast of 2019: Amorphus, Despair, Kodai No Ha, Lannary, Prowl, Radiant & Zaton
Cast of 2020: Amorphus, Isamaru, Karador, Kodai No Ha, Lannary, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2021: Amorphus, Grizzled Wolf, Isamaru, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2022: Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Lannary, Leovold, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Strale, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2023: Isamaru, Leovold, Numai, Radiant & Zaton
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Alasdair
post Oct 26 2021, 02:47 PM
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Distancing and countermastery are both strong, as a base… both need ‘buffing’ with points apps. And I wonder how easy it is to work the two together (a bit like the buff to armour mastery that allows distancing to stack)

Personally I’d go with distancing, because it works out cheaper as a base and still works v weapon masters.
(12/6/3 is 435pts? 6pts of ALL is likely to be about 600.)

Both are solid.
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Stuart
post Oct 26 2021, 02:53 PM
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My favoured route for countermastery is:

A multiclass that starts with innates, ending up with countermastery swords
Upgrade that to contramastery blades, and upgrade the earlier countermastery innates to blade furies
It’s relatively straightforward to end up with perm 9pts contramastery weapons and 4 innates to turn them into pure damage reductions before table 11. Where you go thereafter is for people who enjoy that end of the system more than me.

Stuart
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Simon
post Oct 26 2021, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE(Stuart @ Oct 26 2021, 03:53 PM) *
My favoured route for countermastery is:

A multiclass that starts with innates, ending up with countermastery swords
Upgrade that to contramastery blades, and upgrade the earlier countermastery innates to blade furies
It’s relatively straightforward to end up with perm 9pts contramastery weapons and 4 innates to turn them into pure damage reductions before table 11. Where you go thereafter is for people who enjoy that end of the system more than me.

Stuart


I generally find that end of the system is something that happens to other people...
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JonMace
post Oct 26 2021, 06:10 PM
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Was sure it was clarified, that 1st class warriors could now buy both counter and countra mastery so they get 9 points off all weapons, think it worked out about 800 points. This is going back 4 to 5 years ago so my memory could be in correct
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