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Two Swords vs. Sword and Shield - Labyrinthe Forum
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> Two Swords vs. Sword and Shield, Mages look elsewhere :p
post Apr 18 2010, 08:55 PM
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During my first couple of visits to Labyrinthe, I was very kindly kitted out from the armoury with a standard sword-and-shield combo. Now as I'm sitting here debating what actual kit to purchase (and wishing that Primal Forge accepted payment in grulls... drat) I find myself thinking that maybe Drizzt has it right, and two swords is the way to go.

On the other hand, I want to make sure I'm not making an excessively foolish error in the name of looking really killy. The dogma says that using two swords is less effective since you can't generate a levering action to maximise the force of the blow, but that's presumably irrelevant in LARP (really irritating monsters notwithstanding, I suppose?).

Does anyone have experience using a two-sword style? Can you comment on the pros and cons?
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ethuil
post Apr 18 2010, 09:02 PM
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It's hard. It's especially hard in the caves, in my experience. When I was fighting with E-class swords I always felt like I needed more room to flail, basically. Overlands were much easier. I've now swapped to O-class + forearm parry, which I find is meaning I get hit a lot less.

You need to be good at parrying. You either attack with both and parry with both, or parry with one and attack with the other, at which point you might as well have a staff in your offhand to parry better with.


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Bruno
post Apr 18 2010, 09:04 PM
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Shields are massively, hugely, powerful if you want to be a warrior who faces things in combat and doesn't die. Two swords is nowhere close in effectiveness. The same reason that leverage doesn't matter much, makes parrying blows meaningfully much harder than it would be in RL (...in some senses; not others!) and it's not a very defensive combo at all.



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Phil
post Apr 18 2010, 09:05 PM
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I have experiance of be attacked by someone who is skilled in useing a sword in each hand and i was cut down really quickly. If you know what you are doing then its a very strong fighting style.


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post Apr 18 2010, 10:29 PM
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two swords is a good aggressive style and can be very effective. although defence is a problem (hence where monk parries come in handy)


but rule of labyrinthe is "a shield is the best damage reduction in the system"



for a proper fighting character where you are going to be the front line all the time, pack a shield
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post Apr 18 2010, 10:49 PM
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Hmm, okay - it's sounding like a shield is the way to go until I develop better RL swordsmanship! (Though admittedly the latter may be a faster process than acquiring the 3000-odd points for BattleMaster...)

Thanks all for the advice happy.gif
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post Apr 19 2010, 07:28 AM
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If you want to proper Tank, sword and board is the only way.

1. Buy a big shield, hold it to your shirt at all times, thereby reducing the locations you can be struck to two - sword arm and leading leg (and it's suprisingly easy to reduce it to one, by simply lifting your leg when monsters swing at it)
2. Make sure you pick up Trusty shield off the tables.
3. Kill casters quickly
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Jasper
post Apr 19 2010, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE(EvilSanta @ Apr 19 2010, 08:28 AM) *
1. Buy a big shield, hold it to your shirt at all times, thereby reducing the locations you can be struck to two - sword arm and leading leg (and it's suprisingly easy to reduce it to one, by simply lifting your leg when monsters swing at it


Nooooooooo!
Use the shield to parry!


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post Apr 19 2010, 08:26 AM
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I find as my monk that I need a lighter offhand weapon in order to attack well with both weapons, that off hand weapon is my hand.

-although it does mean you have to buy weapon masteries in both weapons it is extremely flexible if you're being attacked by sloths, gorillas, turtles, snapping turtles, rabbits and worst of all - an angry 15 year old playing a honey badger who's main attack strategy is to repeatedly bash me over the head with his hands, in that case I dropped my sword and started hitting him in the chest with my hands,
but that's YP's for you and I expect you'll be against worse than badgers with much more space to move around.
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post Apr 19 2010, 08:28 AM
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.
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JulianW
post Apr 19 2010, 08:40 AM
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As I see it, there are two problems with using two swords -

1) You will take a lot more damage than if you use a shield. Your healing priest will not thank you for it if they have to heal you after every fight.

2) There's a big risk fights just descend into 'who can hit the other person faster', which tends to result in blows getting smaller and smaller and you looking a bit silly

For a straightforward front-line warrior, shield and sword is both massively more effective and probably more enjoyable to fight with than two swords.

Julian



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post Apr 19 2010, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE(JulianW @ Apr 19 2010, 09:40 AM) *
2) There's a big risk fights just descend into 'who can hit the other person faster', which tends to result in blows getting smaller and smaller and you looking a bit silly

-like two 6 year olds having a hissy fit against eachother...
sorry, I just looked out the window and said what I saw... should I get the hose?
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Stevelouch
post Apr 19 2010, 08:53 AM
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QUOTE(JulianW @ Apr 19 2010, 09:40 AM) *
As I see it, there are two problems with using two swords -

1) You will take a lot more damage than if you use a shield. Your healing priest will not thank you for it if they have to heal you after every fight.

2) There's a big risk fights just descend into 'who can hit the other person faster', which tends to result in blows getting smaller and smaller and you looking a bit silly

For a straightforward front-line warrior, shield and sword is both massively more effective and probably more enjoyable to fight with than two swords.

Julian



Yup i can definately testify that sword and shield works very well for a front line warrior!

Using the 5 point striking style works well especially if fighting someone else with a shield.

Actually mace and shields not bad either for priests (with a cord around wrist for mace and small shield for easy casting total heal etc)

Steve
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JulianW
post Apr 19 2010, 09:01 AM
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Oh - there is one thing to consider - are you left handed?
I'm told this totally changes the dynamics of sword and shield, as the opponent is generally attacking from the side you have the sword on instead of the shield.

Julian


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ChrisAndrews
post Apr 19 2010, 09:04 AM
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QUOTE(EvilSanta @ Apr 19 2010, 08:28 AM) *
1. Buy a big shield, hold it to your shirt at all times, thereby reducing the locations you can be struck to two - sword arm and leading leg (and it's suprisingly easy to reduce it to one, by simply lifting your leg when monsters swing at it)


You forgot the head. And if you do this you'll get hit in the head. A lot. And you then you can't complain about it.

Go with Jasper's idea - parrying means you give the monsters a chance to not just hit you in the face, and can move the shield when they go to hit you in the face. And you can use a slightly smaller shield and thus have it within the size limitations for shields.

Most importantly it looks better...

Chris
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post Apr 19 2010, 09:15 AM
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QUOTE(ChrisAndrews @ Apr 19 2010, 10:04 AM) *
You forgot the head. And if you do this you'll get hit in the head. A lot. And you then you can't complain about it.

Go with Jasper's idea - parrying means you give the monsters a chance to not just hit you in the face, and can move the shield when they go to hit you in the face. And you can use a slightly smaller shield and thus have it within the size limitations for shields.

Most importantly it looks better...

Chris


I like being hit in the head. It makes the voices louder.

Keeping the shield close to your chest/ab also prevents you from smashing someone in the face with the shield - which I've done - and broken someone's nose.

And I didn't mean NEVER parry. Just dont wildly flail the shield around hoping to block a blow. You may aswell go E-skill if you're going to do that.
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post Apr 19 2010, 09:17 AM
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also - if there's a few people with shields a shield wall is effective until the enemy spearheads you to break the formation and when that happens you will get hit a lot while trying to figure out who's a friend and who's a foe and who you don't like
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dnsmantra
post Apr 19 2010, 10:03 AM
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QUOTE(ethuil @ Apr 18 2010, 10:02 PM) *
You need to be good at parrying. You either attack with both and parry with both, or parry with one and attack with the other, at which point you might as well have a staff in your offhand to parry better with.


I'm not convinced a staff in the offhand is better to parry with. The big advantage of a pair of, say swords, vs parry stick + sword, is that you can choose to parry with either hand (and frequently need to), attack with either OH or MH, or indeed both together as the situation dictates. It's very versatile because you can adapt to the situation required.

Sure it's not defensively as strong as shield + sword, but it's far more instantly versatile and adaptable, at least imho. This does come from the perspective of parries+ though, rather than no parries, so might be a slightly skewed stand point if you're considering such without parries to back it up.

Certainly shield+ is the best defensive combo you're going to get.

Huw
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evilwizard
post Apr 19 2010, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE(JulianW @ Apr 19 2010, 10:01 AM) *
Oh - there is one thing to consider - are you left handed?
I'm told this totally changes the dynamics of sword and shield, as the opponent is generally attacking from the side you have the sword on instead of the shield.

Julian


As a left hander I certainly do think I fair better off when going against someone with a shield (Whos right handed) for the above reason.

I personally favour 2 swords, I use a heavier(better weighted) sword in my right hand which I parry with and stike with my left.
or cross them if your looking to parry a spear etc and then close into their feet.
to me I like this more than using a shield as its more fun and you can quikcly go more offensive if you find someones side or back.

And as Jasper says use the shiled to parry with not as fixed chest defender. There foam and laytex(spelling?) not the wooden armoury shields of old where you got told to grab you tunic and never let them swing out from the body.

Neil





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Jasper
post Apr 19 2010, 12:07 PM
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I'm told shield and spear is the weapon combination all the cool kids are using this summer.

J


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