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System changes from Lee - Labyrinthe Forum
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sonof
post May 28 2014, 12:04 PM
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As I said in the “mission statement” post I don’t want to engage in a mass clarification, but there are a few things I think need changing and want to get it done at the start of things, so here we go:


1) Varial Caster. Dan can finally get his way. It is being removed as of now. If people need to respend it come and see myself or Duncan. I am happy to arrange small respend of recently purchased abilities so people can buy up casting levels to keep casting the spells they want, or to respend spells. The reason behind this is pretty simple. It makes it far too easy to cast high level spells. It will become apparent from future posts that I believe the curve of mana cost to casting level is an important one.

2) The Webdale rule. As one D wins, one D loses. It is a silly rule and is all Fromants fault. If Trufts abilities were so unreasonable he should have been clarified and not the poor brown power master. I would like to remind people that to use fore arm (or any) parry you need to be able to move freely. So an Iron skin would normally prevent forearm parry.

3) Powercast, Force of Magic/faith, and force of arms. All of these are being removed. Simply put they open far too many abuses, such as Shower of flames. Force of arms means that spending points on damage reductions becomes pointless and the Warrior/brown wizard becomes king rather than the battle master. I am aware this will result in some respends. If you are simply losing the ability then any desk staff or senior ref can sign it off. If it involves changing an ability then please see me to check it.
This also applies to any other “inflict a minimum amount of damage ability”. In this case please bring them to me for checking and most likely respending/adjusting.
With regards to abilities based on force of arms please bring them to me for checking.

4) Blade Rune – Vorpal Wounding – In light of the above it is changed so that the force of arms aspect is removed. Instead it now means that 1 point of damage inflicted per damage grade cannot be healed until the next dawn. EG if you are inflicting Quad then 4 points of it cannot be healed. If a person can reduce the damage below 4 points then anything suffered is permanent.

5) Numerical damage reductions. The system limit for numerical damage reduction is now 12 points. I’ll be open this is in the same as the system limit for max a/c is 12. I am not going to say it is impossible to use your 10k gift to exceed it, but it is the territory of 10k gifts. On the subject of numerical reductions if you have a permanent numerical reduction above 6 points I would like to see it. I’m not going to take it away I actually want to see what restrictions you have on it so I can be fair to everyone going forward.

6) Battle-master. The restriction of being table 10 to begin this class is removed. You can start it as soon as you want. I’ve gone through a few spends with this and I can’t see any problems that it creates. If something unforeseen happens then this will get reviewed. Hopefully this will help to make warriors below table 10 a bit more playable without points apps.

7) Items of fore-arm/leg parry. Please email the booking line if you have one, and let them know the item number and when it was from (roughly). This will let Duncan check how many ISP were put into it. Then it will either be counter signed as OK if it is, or a suitable replacement will be issued. Going forward setting forearm parry as an item will cost 16isp.

8) Dealer. After consideration if you want to use it (or any other flexi isp) to get points abilities you can, but they must be ones you could buy (class, table etc.). Also I’d remind people that doing things like taking 1/ever items with temporary isp isn’t acceptable, you just can’t do it.


There will also be separate posts about Instant Degeneration and Ivory Warrior.

I think it is also worth mentioning Grull pools. They are becoming more common. If I catch people with a grull pool I will simply take all of their grulls off them. If they get caught a second time they will be banned from having grulls and any grull based equipment. It’s not difficult to keep grulls separated between characters so let’s do?

Finally the signing on of points apps. For anything I have passed it can be signed on by myself or a member of the management (Duncan and Kat). Hopefully this will mean people can keep up to date on cards. For previous GSM’s points apps it needs to be signed on by me. This is to let me check it and make sure I am happy with it. If you have an old Jan points app you are basing your spend around then you might want to show it to me before you plan around it. Likewise if you are thinking now is a good time to open folder C it probably isn’t.

Lee


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sonof
post Jun 2 2014, 10:34 AM
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Updates:

Ivory warrior. After the discussions on it a lot of cool idea's have come out. Some of these will end up in the new Wizards Grimoire. For now the changes will be:

Ivory Warrior now has a flat duration of 30 minutes regardless of the number of runes cast.


Degen and Instant Degen. For the present nothing will change but they will get amended in the new Words from Above.

Lee



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sonof
post May 17 2016, 01:55 PM
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As I mentioned almost two years ago (wow) when the new books came out I would be looking at more things than my initial list, and we have books so here they are:

My backstab isn't backstab - if you have an ability that changes your backstab to masteries/base damage/anything like this please bring it to me. It will all but certainly be removed.

Perm spell shields, or any ability that means you can cast enhanced spell shield without casting a spell shield. Again this will probably be removed.

Combining power bases. Magic and spirit is fine. Anything that lets you add a power to/with EP will most likely be removed. Adding neuronic to magic or spirit, again this is likely to be removed. Adding magic or spirit to neuronics, it is potentially ok but needs checking (for example spirit/psi purity of mind is unlikely).
Slayers/anything damage outside of a 10k gift or demon slayer style abilities (eg only vs undead)
Non-published advocacy abilities.
Anything that knocks on to other players (obvious ones are I count as 3 of X on the same sheet as you get extra life from X is ok for you, but it could then be used by someone else so I need to check).
‎Retro's passed by a GSM other than me. They are highly likely to be changed depending on their nature.

I would also remind people about the 12 point damage reduction limit, removal of force of arms/abilities that inflict minimum damage/cut through everything.


Lee


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sonof
post Mar 20 2018, 07:44 PM
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So another two years (aiyee) but:

Trolls - Sorry you can't learn Neuronics it was missed off.
The Beats within Conclave - The creators (animals) clearly counted on their fingers and got it wrong so please add:

Spiders silk
Ears of the Wolf
Pumas Speed

to the list. And yes Cats grace is 3ep not 4.

Ley believer/hanger on ~ These cannot be set as items without GSM approval. Temp/other ISP to get them mean the individual must buy the relevant ability, or otherwise cover it, and only work on guild speicals. So..
10 points short of Hanger on to Earthern Conclave and the Maestro gives you an item, and you buy it off the dungeon. OK
10 points shoft of 1st level priest, so you use a dealer to gain ley believer and at the end of the dungeon go level 1 priest. OK

Broadly don't abuse it, and play fair with it.

"only hit" races. please rememebr the restrictions on them, especially how this owrks to using PAC.
And on this lines you must always be able to suffer damage from at least one power base (Physical, magical, Spiritual, Neuronic) or you die. So no being a spiritless, immune to neuronics, immortal that casts Mana shield.

EP generally generates a physical effect, so immortals with the upgrade ar eprobably immune to beneficial EP. Not always, but generally.

Lee
(Hoping its 2 more years before I do this).


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DavidFisher
post Feb 1 2020, 05:21 AM
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Only a few more weeks until the 2020 update gets posted... smile.gif

lol, I don't think I have any actually, but once I catch up on everything I will check my notes just in case.

Lee
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sonof
post Mar 2 2020, 11:30 AM
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So despite saying I didn't have any... and it's not really.

I'd like to remind people if they are playing Almanac races that significant changes to them may effect your stats.
This would include:

Where they have restrictions on religion and you use a players ability to change it.
Where you are in a tribe and get asylum'd into a different one.
Anything that clearly deviates from the intention.

If this happens then please contact me with details so I can adjust things if needed. If you can include a picture of the original entry (or point to where it is) that will make it quicker.

Lee


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sonof
post Feb 27 2021, 10:24 AM
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Hello,

So it’s been a year since I did anything like this, so here it is. Mostly reminders/minor tweaks of abilities, although there are a couple of proper changes and a clarification on how things work.

~ Reminders ~
Points app becoming Published
As a reminder. When a points app become published (be it the 2016 rules, or as an Almanac ability) this does NOT mean you can have your non-standard version and the published ones. The most obvious examples being old play your undead abilities stacking with the published ones, but it applies to all abilities.
When in doubt assume you can’t without checking.

New Battle boards
No ability can carry over onto a “New Battle board” without the power or innates remaining used. This will normally only be relevant on Extended lengths and effects that have long durations, or even last the dungeons.
The exception is the published Mark Ally spells and Joining, and the use of supreme sacrifice/similar (as this isn’t really a new battle board)

Stacking points apps.
You may not use or combine the effects of multiple points apps together unless at least 1 of the points apps specifically mentions the other it is being used with. In general, if abilities are on the same page it is assumed they will work together. This includes gaining additional benefits from the same spell/miracle/evocation, such as ivory warrior grants 12/4 life, and ivory warrior glyphs last twice as long.
This is a re-wording of the original rule no 2 points app work together unless the mention each other. Given people put new points apps in and didn’t know they would when putting in the original, this rule re-wording isn’t a change merely a common sense re-wording.

Additionally if you have something that enhances a published ability it doesn’t stack with other enhancements (even published ones) unless it says. EG if you have Druidic heal cures an extra 6/6, this wouldn’t stack with Affinity with nature.

10k sign off/signing on of abilities
To remind people any points app passed by me as GSM can be signed on me, Duncan, or (likely after giving her prosecco) Kat.
Abilities from previous GSM’s can be signed on by me.
PLEASE keep up to date on getting abilities signed on. And refs please check cards and sign things not signed, or sign next to non-standards if for some crazy reason the player hasn’t been able to get things signed on.

Also when reaching 10k all characters need to be checked by me before they are next played. This is to go through apps and make sure stuff is still working as intended and not being abused. I am happy to do this any time from reaching 9k if you have your spend planned and checkable. If you haven’t been checked then you can’t play.
I am now going to bring in a 30k check as well (since the number of 30k characters is going up).

I am happy to do these checks remotely in as far as you scan all your abilities and a picture of your spend. I’ll check through and return questions. Then when we meet I can sign the card or let Duncan know things are ok and he can.

~ Changes/Clarifications ~
Tempo.
The published ability from the almanac Tempo of Power, is re-worded as follows. 1/day gains the benefit of tempo of battle (warrior ability) but it applies to all published supernatural power ups that are active when used.
As a reminder people should be aware tempo is for 1 combat, moving between encounters ends Tempo of battle and tempo style abilities based on Tempo of Battle, including tempo of power above.

Carry on running abilities
When you have an ability to extend the duration of an already ongoing effect it is considered to now have the following restricitons:
It cannot be extended to last longer than 30 minutes unless the duration was already longer than 15 minutes. Where an ability was longer than 15 minutes it can only be extended one.

Power Reductions.
No ability or combination of abilities will allow any spell, miracle or evocation to be reduced by less than 50% of the power cost, unless it has been counter signed following this announcement. This includes things such as 1 power off per minute spent in the casting, 1 power off per time cast in the last hour, 6 power off if cast on a member of my guild. It does not include casting things for 0 power and a TBLP cost such as protection needed for restore life in spiritual healer.
This does not apply when using published Expertise and a published mana reduction that stacks with the Expertise (EG Fire blast expertise and book mage).

The Same Effect
The same effect, or an effect that is as X but Y (So shield and greater shield, or shield self and shield other), do not stack unless they specifically say they do.
This includes where the effects are different power bases but essentially the same (So Walk through Fire, Neuro-Mastery Fire, Resist Fire).
Likewise where an effect gives an ongoing ability (EG Springs Soothing Rains ability to cast a druidic heal for free periodically) having multiple of those effects up does not stack unless it specifically says it does.

Stacking Damage Reductions
Individuals can ONLY apply one numerical, one fractional, and one percentile to any weapon blow unless both say they stack. As a note since they will be non-standards based on the above they must say they stack with each other.
For clarity the following published abilities do stack:
½ effect Magic as dwarf (So with the restrictions, EG Frost Giant) will stack with published resistances to colours (EG ½ effect fire).
½ effect spirit as half elf (Again with the restricitons, EG Elder Fey) will stack with Greatness of Spirit and Focussed spirit.

If in doubt assume it doesn’t stack unless specifically signed off to say it does.

Lee


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sonof
post Jan 25 2023, 01:08 PM
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Somehow I'm keeping to doing this every two years (horay!) please see the above where relevant as they still matter.

Only two new ones:

Layering - Not so much a change more an acceptance. The order you are wearing the armour doesn't matter, its the wearing it. So if you have your leather over your chain then all good you can still layer based on chain and leather.

Parry Versatility - This is being removed, so go crazy parrying with a Bst Sword as now can parry with B class weapons. However we did discuss bringing it in for E class weapons, so be aware if we find people are being rubbish with it we may look to bring this change in later. As a note all the above still apply so to use parries you need to be able to move freely.

Lee


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And send system questions etc. to: Lee@labyrinthe.co.uk
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sonof
post May 21 2023, 09:59 AM
Post #9


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A couple of reminders and a small change or two:

Mantics:
If you have an ability that turns all your power “mantic” (or similar) then you still need to have non-standard spells and miracles checked to ensure they are suitable to cast mantically. This potentially also includes enhancements to spells and miracles if it does something different.

Durations:
This is effectively a follow on from the rule changes a couple of years ago regarding carrying things over on battle boards. Durational abilities are broadly based on a cave dungeon, and work fine on triple lengths. However on extended lengths they can create some trouble, as such the following is now in place:
All non-standard spells, miracles, evocations, etc. with a duration cannot have the power regained while the effect is active (so if you have a 1 hour rockskin you can’t regain the power until it ends)
This applies equally to published effects that have been changed by non-standard apps (such as increasing the duration of an effect)

I will review abilities on a case by case basis and if I feel the above is not relevant I will add to the ability that the power can be regained while active.


Setting items
When using the ISP for character points it must be an ability the person can buy, and they must meet the requirements for it. So have atendency slot for a tendency, if its a 1/day innate not have purchased it etc.
Also all such items when being issued need to be signed by one of the CMT.

Justice of the Kings
Not for the published version as its obvious but Justice of the kinds variants (including if you have it vs effects) only apply to damaging effects. So you cna't use Justice vs effects vs an Anaths for example.

Lee


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sonof
post May 22 2023, 01:30 PM
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Sorry I missed a couple (they were on a separate bit of paper):

Retros
This is likely only relevant if you have an ability that says "No retro's" on it, as otherwise it doesn't effect you. So why the need for it? There are a lot of older apps that have the restriction and itsn ot as clear as some of the newer ones this should bring everything in line and as intended.
First to be a retro for these purposes it is something that triggers without an OOC or IC declaration.

Not get out retros
These include things like: War Cry, Foretold, Pure Force, Passive healing etc. The key here is the person stays to be hit more once its been triggered.
If you have a restriction of "No retro's" these are fine.

Get out retros
This includes the classic retro's of "I get a rockskin vs the blow and then vanish" and similar, but also includes things like "when I fall unconscious I earth meld/blink etc
The spirit of the no retro's rule is you don't get to have this style of get outs.
If you've ended up with both types of abilities come and see myself or Duncan to respend one of them.

"Clarify"
A few people have an ability that allows a follow up answer to a comm to clarify the answer. A few ref have come to me and asked about it and how it should work, because of this I've gone through and worked out a suitable example of how it should work below. This might be slightly different to what people have verbally asked me, but is in line with how I broadly view it should work and how I cost it.
The key is in the word "clarify" the follow up question allows you to clarify the original answer not get more info. As an example:

"How do I kill that?" is the initial question with an answer of "Red, Blue, and Black mana damage"
A clarify question of do they have a dying effect isn't ok as its not clarification.
A clarify of "Is there an order or similar" with an answer of "Yes, Red, then blue, and black last" is acceptable.

Thanks

Lee


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