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Mercenaries not paid by Thimon Magistrate - Labyrinthe Forum
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> Mercenaries not paid by Thimon Magistrate, (plead for help from council and mercenary commisant / reeve)
DavidFisher
post Jan 4 2009, 03:54 PM
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Yesterday, I was hired by a bloke called Ethan in Thimon. He said he worked for the Thimon Magistrate and had a hiring licence. We were to arrest a Winterscorn Ratfolk and bring him back to Ethan. Apparently the Winterscorn came down from the north to help fight the Knights of the Land but now that was all settled, the Magistrate wanted him to leave and he was unwilling to go. Ethan said he wanted him alive but accepted if he refused to come we could use force "as required".

So we set off and finally get to him. He refuses to come so we knock him out and carry him back unconscious. On the way there and out, some of his clan take umbridge at us and try to stop us. We talk where possible but fights do break out and some of them are killed.

When we get back we are all arrested for killing Thimon residents and told we will be charged with murder. After some explaining and questions we told we are free to go but will not be paid for the mission.

Now as far as I see it, anyone who tried to stop us getting the Winterscorn was impeding an offically sanctioned imperial mission and while the violence was avoided where possible, when it did break out, we were in the right. Secondly, a lot of mercenary groups would have just killed the guy and brought his corpse back while we went to great length and pains (not to mention a lot of salmon leap evocations) to ensure he got out alive.

I feel like this junior Thimon Magistrate has basically got us to do his dirty work and then decided to bring some fake allogations to avoid paying us.

Several members of Shadow Company were also with me and, true to their ethos, tried at every turn to fulfil the contract so we are all asking what happens now?

We have no power to do anything and need some help from either the Thimon Council or the Mercenary Senator / Reeve or Commisant to speak to the Magistrates office and try to sort this out.

Please let me know what we can do

My thanks

Tariq

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post Jan 4 2009, 04:48 PM
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It is truely a miscariage of justice.

Unfortuantly I was not there when this occured, as I had to take flight half way through our venture, after fufilling my duty to the Empire outside of mercanary contract.

I undertook this contract, and I also seem to remember Ethan mentioning we might have to resort to arms (despite trying to encourage us to go for the stealthy/peaceful route)..... I would be very intrested in talking to this Journeyman Magistrate or whatever position he had said he held!

In the name of our Empress,
A. A. Kinsworth
Scribe....





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TimTreadwell
post Jan 4 2009, 06:56 PM
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I'm sure that we can try to find this Magistrate, whom I have never met, and sort this out. I'm fairly certain that Magistrate Kei-Ry will have words to say to the individual.

I did donate a number of things to your cause to assist you (a scroll that would completely heal someone, a bottle of Holy water, a bottle of 3 doses of regeneration elixir and a couple of bottles of standard strength healing potions) at no cost. I'm sure that what remains of these can be divided up amongst your company until the matter of your pay is sorted out.

With regard,

Haruld.
Craftenguilder of Thimon.
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ethuil
post Jan 4 2009, 07:42 PM
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Dear Sirs,

Myself and my superiors would like to make the following two points.

Firstly, that the commotion caused by the mercenaries hired, the legal clearup required surrounding the murder of several citizens of the Empire, not to mention the fact that the mercenaries were hired for arrest and returned one of the targets deceased, caused such trouble for the City of Thimon that the mercenaries' pay was more than used up.

Secondly, that the mercenaries were permitted to keep all of the treasure and other such goods that were liberated from the caverns beneath the city, and sold through our brokers to a total so large that it was quite sufficient to pay all those involved to the sum of standard Imperial pay (1,000G).

Sincerely,

Ethan Stalford


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post Jan 4 2009, 08:31 PM
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who got that munnee cuz I nevah an I died like a chumpyon in da defens ov da emp....land agenst an eevul drow assin so I shud get more too.

Rascal
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post Jan 4 2009, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE(TimTreadwell @ Jan 4 2009, 06:56 PM) *
I'm sure that we can try to find this Magistrate, whom I have never met, and sort this out. I'm fairly certain that Magistrate Kei-Ry will have words to say to the individual.

I did donate a number of things to your cause to assist you (a scroll that would completely heal someone, a bottle of Holy water, a bottle of 3 doses of regeneration elixir and a couple of bottles of standard strength healing potions) at no cost. I'm sure that what remains of these can be divided up amongst your company until the matter of your pay is sorted out.

With regard,

Haruld.
Craftenguilder of Thimon.


Thank you for looking into this, but I have not seen any of these potions or scrolls?

Lithmore
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DavidFisher
post Jan 5 2009, 09:05 AM
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QUOTE(Padallen @ Jan 4 2009, 11:47 PM) *
Thank you for looking into this, but I have not seen any of these potions or scrolls?

Lithmore


I have a bottle of 3 regenerative elixirs and some blessed water
The scroll was read and the potions drunk
The bottle can not be split - it is all in one

As for standard pay - we all took this to mean 3,000 which is "standard"

I got 1 piece of treasure the Shadow Legion sergeant got got 6

All in all the Thimon Magistrate robbed and tricked us

Tariq
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DavidFisher
post Jan 5 2009, 10:00 AM
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Firstly, that the commotion caused by the mercenaries hired, the legal clearup required surrounding the murder of several citizens of the Empire, not to mention the fact that the mercenaries were hired for arrest and returned one of the targets deceased, caused such trouble for the City of Thimon that the mercenaries' pay was more than used up.

Right – firstly, Ethan said if they resist arrest, we could use force “as necessary” – this ratfolk animated undead and used a variety of causing miracles on us. We had no choice but to bring him back dead. The second one we managed to knock out and bring back. This magistrate then actually thanked us for killing this ratfolk as it saved them the trouble and he was an outlaw. It makes no sense to now say this was not what they were after.

Secondly, the “citizens” that were killed were all trying to stop us carrying out an official imperial mission. For instance, the barman – we found out he was a ratfolk in disguise so shattered his weapon and bound him. We tried do get past him using non violence but he drew a concealed dagger and attacked us. At this point he was struck back and died.

Thirdly – “caused trouble for the city of Thimon” – not sure you have hired mercenaries before but we are brought in when negotiation fails. We ain’t hired to sweet talk people – we carry sword and use direct confrontation. If this wasn’t what you were after, you should not be hiring us. This was pointed out to Ethan several times and he accepted that violence was a likely outcome because the groups we were to go and “arrest” were sure to resist.

Secondly, that the mercenaries were permitted to keep all of the treasure and other such goods that were liberated from the caverns beneath the city, and sold through our brokers to a total so large that it was quite sufficient to pay all those involved to the sum of standard Imperial pay (1,000G).

“Standard” pay is 3000 grulls not 1000 grulls. Only 2 people recovered any treasure at all – this statement just goes to show how Ethan is trying to con us mercenaries.

Tariq
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Pants
post Jan 5 2009, 10:19 AM
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QUOTE(DavidFisher @ Jan 5 2009, 10:00 AM) *
Secondly, the “citizens” that were killed were all trying to stop us carrying out an official imperial mission. For instance, the barman – we found out he was a ratfolk in disguise so shattered his weapon and bound him. We tried do get past him using non violence but he drew a concealed dagger and attacked us. At this point he was struck back and died.


So you admit to attacking an Imperial Citizen that had done nothing wrong apart from being a member of the law abiding ratfolk? Who you then attacked by destroying his weapon and binding him, who then tried to defend himself against a superior group with a knife.

Sounds to me like you attacked first.

Also you only mention one such case thus suggesting that the other attacks on Imperial citizens have even less credible defence.

Lucky you were not in Bildteve or sounds like you would be in front of Magistrate Thor.

Marius

Watch Captain Bildteve


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"Stop quoting laws to us, we carry swords!" Pompey the Great 82BC

VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI

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DavidFisher
post Jan 5 2009, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE(Pants @ Jan 5 2009, 10:19 AM) *
So you admit to attacking an Imperial Citizen that had done nothing wrong apart from being a member of the law abiding ratfolk? Who you then attacked by destroying his weapon and binding him, who then tried to defend himself against a superior group with a knife.

Sounds to me like you attacked first.

Also you only mention one such case thus suggesting that the other attacks on Imperial citizens have even less credible defence.

Lucky you were not in Bildteve or sounds like you would be in front of Magistrate Thor.

Marius

Watch Captain Bildteve


Well, you weren’t there so it is difficult to get a proper view. We were told by Ethan that some ratfolk could change shape to look human and those that did so were likely part of the “Alliance” – a group of outlaws set on ruining things for Thimon.

(I think I have it right here)

We were told not to hurt these ratfolk but get past them without hurting them. This was the first we met and disabling him seemed the best option for moving to his backroom and into the sewers down a grate in his floor.

We tried telling him we only wanted to get past but he seemed insistent on trying to kill us rather than let us past.

I can only repeat what I have previously said, we tried at every opportunity to complete this mission with the citizentry in mind. We discussed a lot of options on how best to do this and tried really hard not to hurt anyone. This is really rather unusual for mercenaries, especially when they have already been told force is allowed.

It just leaves a really bad taste in the mouth to then be told “thanks for succeeding – but we ain’t paying you”

Tariq
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BBB
post Jan 5 2009, 11:58 AM
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Would those involved in this matter send me a report on this event and I will investigate what has happened.

Kei-Ry
The Baron Netherwell
Magistrate of Thimon
(Acting) Watch Captain of Thimon

OOC: Who was the referee?


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BBB
post Jan 5 2009, 12:04 PM
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Standard Mercenary pay is 2,000G for a days work. In certain cases bonuses may be added or deductions mae for failure.

Kei-Ry
The Baron Netherwell
Magistrate of Thimon
(Acting) Watch Captain of Thimon

OOC: Bear in mind that 3,000G is the maximum amount a referee can take out per party member this 1,000G difference is where treasure money and other bonuses come from.


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PS, Yes, I know my PM Box is full. Email me instead... (Which you can do through the forums email)
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DavidFisher
post Jan 5 2009, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE(BBB @ Jan 5 2009, 12:04 PM) *
Standard Mercenary pay is 2,000G for a days work. In certain cases bonuses may be added or deductions mae for failure.

Kei-Ry
The Baron Netherwell
Magistrate of Thimon
(Acting) Watch Captain of Thimon

OOC: Bear in mind that 3,000G is the maximum amount a referee can take out per party member this 1,000G difference is where treasure money and other bonuses come from.


Rebecca was the referee, we were paid a total of 12,000 grulls for a party of 12 - 7K for treasure and 5K for the bounty on the outlaw's head. By my calculation we are each due 2000 grulls if you decide in favour of the players.

Personally I am not that bothered, I just think several players feel hard done by.

Setting an adventure in a city is never easy, giving parts weapons (that they use) and then penalising the party or expecting no fights is also setting some very high expectations. We honestly tried out best but were also hampered by a few evil party members that wanted to cause trouble and attack everything. We could not kick them out of the group (because to be honest they paid just like we did and it is an open adventure) and do not want to outlawed for killing them.

David
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isbiraven
post Jan 5 2009, 01:15 PM
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OOC:
just my 2grulls worth and i am gunna shut up as i a-reffed the dungeon so maybe seen to be bias,

I have played many adventures in the past two years...and i would say that around 5-10% of them i have been with a party that messed up or failed in some way and recieved little or no grulls...i seem to remeber about a month ago just before xmas that i played a dungeon, was succesfull in the mission and still only recieved 500 grulls.....

tbh, i play for the roleplay and ingame time...grulls are gd, useful but in noway do i allow the amount of grulls i get at the end of the day relate in anyway to how much fun i had on adventure...

the amount of grulls handed out was enough for everyone to recieve 1000g each...if characters dont then share...
besides i seem to remeber handing each and every player money at the debrief table....??? or did i not?

Tony. (who is confused)

well done for rebbeca on a very well plotted dungeon and (dispite IC party issues) enjoyable day.
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ZoeMercer
post Jan 5 2009, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE(DavidFisher @ Jan 5 2009, 12:26 PM) *
Rebecca was the referee, we were paid a total of 12,000 grulls for a party of 12 - 7K for treasure and 5K for the bounty on the outlaw's head. By my calculation we are each due 2000 grulls if you decide in favour of the players.

Personally I am not that bothered, I just think several players feel hard done by.

Setting an adventure in a city is never easy, giving parts weapons (that they use) and then penalising the party or expecting no fights is also setting some very high expectations. We honestly tried out best but were also hampered by a few evil party members that wanted to cause trouble and attack everything. We could not kick them out of the group (because to be honest they paid just like we did and it is an open adventure) and do not want to outlawed for killing them.

David


OOC: I like that we were given a mission that was difficult to succeed by virute of other than statting, and love that we have consequences to our actions which may or may not be justified in-character. So much more flavour than the common pre-digested pap. In character of course I am spitting teeth and want to axe someone in the chest. Probably your character Dave tongue.gif

Simon (Zoe left her account open again!)
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Pants
post Jan 5 2009, 06:19 PM
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(Standard Imperial Pay is an IC game mechanic and not an OOC rule. It is not an OOC rule that everyone must recieve 3000 grulls from adventure. The Senate (ic) along with the CMT made the increase to 3000 grulls available for Imperial missions only. There is no rule stated that you must recieve this amount of money for a dungeon. If the referee in terms of plot wants to with hold some of the money then that is their decision. Maybe your meant to feel really hard done by?)




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"Stop quoting laws to us, we carry swords!" Pompey the Great 82BC

VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI

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Kail
post Jan 5 2009, 07:11 PM
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I was on this dungeon and OOC I don't care that we did not get paid. I had a great laugh, it was a fun dungeon and we all enjoyed it.

Now to in character:

Rascal, glad to hear from you again. After getting your life restored to you I thought it acceptable to use your share of the treasure for Legion requirments, I hope that is ok with you.

City officials of Thimon. I would like to back up the statment that we made all effort to seek peaceful resolutions with the ratfolk we met. I would also like to state that we were aiding Thimon in removing the ratfolk from their city and, to the best of my memory, were never told that any of them were protected by law or asked to avoid killing any but the two chiefs who were wanted for questioning.

I do not wish any grievance with your fine city and would be glad to help you again. What I am more conserned with is clearing the mark to our names caused by these allegations when it seems to be a simple misunderstanding.

Kail
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post Jan 5 2009, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE(Kail @ Jan 5 2009, 07:11 PM) *
Rascal, glad to hear from you again. After getting your life restored to you I thought it acceptable to use your share of the treasure for Legion requirments, I hope that is ok with you.

Kail


Humph. 'Spose so..........


Rascal
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Rob
post Jan 6 2009, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE(ethuil @ Jan 4 2009, 07:42 PM) *
Dear Sirs,

Myself and my superiors would like to make the following two points.

Firstly, that the commotion caused by the mercenaries hired, the legal clearup required surrounding the murder of several citizens of the Empire, not to mention the fact that the mercenaries were hired for arrest and returned one of the targets deceased, caused such trouble for the City of Thimon that the mercenaries' pay was more than used up.

Secondly, that the mercenaries were permitted to keep all of the treasure and other such goods that were liberated from the caverns beneath the city, and sold through our brokers to a total so large that it was quite sufficient to pay all those involved to the sum of standard Imperial pay (1,000G).

Sincerely,

Ethan Stalford


Mr Stalford

1000G is NOT the Imperial standard pay.

The amount is in fact G2000 - 3000.

Now - I am not sure if you are aware but Thimon has an excellent reputation as an Imperial City and the Govenor is also the Senator for Mercenary Affairs. Mr Stalford do you honestly believe he wants the reputation of his city to suffer because of your penny pinching or for the mercenary caste who are within his protection to be ripped off by his own city? If the mercenaries were not arrested then you did not have the evidence to do so, if you did not have the evidence they should be considered innocent. If they are innocent then you are commiting a serious offence by refusing to pay them and breaking the terms of the hiring licence.

Imagine the scenario where the city of Thimon calls for mercenaries and none respond out of fear that they wont get paid...

I strongly suggest you pay the G2000 per person you really cant factor treasure they found as part of their pay.

Path Colonel William Chance
Reeve for Mercenary Affairs
Imperial Pathfinders
Knight Reliant
Journeyman Magistrate
Restless


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Jasper
post Jan 6 2009, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE(Rob @ Jan 6 2009, 07:21 PM) *
1000G is NOT the Imperial standard pay.

The amount is in fact G2000 - 3000.


G1000 was 'standard imperial pay' a few years back but I'm not sure its actually written down in any rules or laws or anything anywhere.

I'm sure that if any crisis threatens Thimon then the great Heroes of Labyrinthia will step up to meet it and lay their lives down (if needed) whether they are being promised 3000 grulls or not.

Wouldn't it be better if the money went to the poor instead? I'm sure Thimon has plenty of needy orphans (what with that evil necromancer chap in charge). Think of the orphans...


Mac


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