Force of Arms, Because Stuart asked for it... Options

[Sizel]

"Enhanced force of arms is a bad thing to set too often"...

[JulianW]

"Enhanced force of arms is a bad thing to set too often"...

I agree.
Screws on certain types of warriors unfairly - punishes you for daring to deviate from the same old formula of 'tons of live + quad + total heal' (or 'tons of life + quin + a mate with total heal')

Julian

[dnsmantra]

It depends very very much in the context of which it is set IMHO.

Huw

[Pants]

It is however very useful at the higher end of the system. Allows you to represent that somethings are so massive no matter what it is going to hurt.

And high level warriors surely would have it as they are bored of fighting Redman and him only taking 1 pt a blow?

As with anything, within reason I agree to it.

Nothing wrong with some parts of the old school, i.e. force majeure, puissant d'armes, etc.

I remember two years ago when I started my new style of reffing I set these effects on a max3k and watched the party cry... a monk that did not have celerity! Foolish!

You have all become weak the older you have become!

[JustinC]

I feel on pre-T12 dungeons it's just harsh. Like setting dying fx on a T9 dungeon.

On T12+ dungeons, it's only screwing over non-1st class warriors, rather than challenging them. It should be an equaliser, but it isn't really.

Stupid effect.

JC

[BBB]

Coincidentally I applied for "Immuinity to Enhanced Force of Arms" recently, thinking that Force fo Arms reasonable, Enhanced Force of Arms and above as not.

Strangely got back "no - buy Immunity to Force of Arms"...

I'm a little split on the Force of Arms thing. I guess that anything above Enhanced Force of Arms is a step too far and Enhanced Force of Arms should really just be for the big meaty warrior parts. For my part as a referee I disagree with giving "unthinking" / "non skilled" parts Enhanced Force of Arms. E.g. Golems doing Eight shouldn't have it (they have lots of hits, Immunity F&B et cetera) whereas Human Battle Masters with relatively less hits and immunities doing Six should probably be more the sort of thing that can have Enhanced Force of Arms.

I often stat elementals that have been summoned by Sorcerors a 2 mana power up glyph that grants them Force of Arms as an add on to "Arm Elemental" and "Bind Elemental" which is genearlly fairly harmless and means that Warriors have to pay attention to the Elementals doing triple rather than just Blasé they way through at 1pt a blow.

I suppose that, as has been said already, its all down to context.

Lucikly as Vayle I never ran into Force of Arms with any regularity. A character based on having not enough life but very good rage's can easily get toasted by Force of Arms / Enhanced Force of Arms. None of my other characters have ever had good enough damage reductions for it to be relevant.

BBB

I'm pretty sure I've made my opinion public before -
[obviously not that it matters what I think ]
but I believe that immunity to Force of Arms should be deleted from the tables,
[along with Justice of the Kings but thats another argument]

It means that the refs can then set more reasonable grades - probably stopping at 6 or so - because you know it will inflict 12pts
also it then give the non-warriors a chance to survive against odd stray blows.

A higher levels it seems to polarise between really hard warrior types and pure power users, as these seem the most likely to be able to survive.


IMHO


Mark

[Bruno]

Yep - remove it - go!

[dnsmantra]

I'm inclined to agree with MCC.

Huw

[JustinC]

Well, do it! You're the GSM!

And remove Justice too, why not. Makes the world a scarier place for everyone. Which is a good thing, and means refs can stat a little more sensibly.

JC

[Bruno]

Where would we be without justice omg the strong would rule with an iron fist!

[Sizel]

It means that the refs can then set more reasonable grades - probably stopping at 6 or so - because you know it will inflict 12pts

The flip side though is that the player who spends all his points on getting rediculous damage reductions ends up taking just as much damage as the player who goes for a more generalised spend ~ effectively meaning he's wasted a chunk of his points.
What's the point in being a warrior who has MC'ed wizard so that he can cast Rockskin when fighting things doing six, if the things doing six are going to be doing him 12 points a blow anyway? Okay so it's better than 18 points, but worth spending the 10 mana on?


It's sort of a bit like saying the wizard who has spent points on buying lots of mana can't use more than 100, because that's how much the other wizards have ~ despite the fact that the other wizards have MC'ed out of the bracket.



From a personal perspective I know I was recantly faced with a situation where it wasn't worth spending the mana to power up, because the Force of Arms damage made the defensive spell irrelevant.

A higher levels it seems to polarise between really hard warrior types and pure power users, as these seem the most likely to be able to survive.

Specialisation as the route to power?
If you want to be really good at something you seem to need to specialise.

also it then give the non-warriors a chance to survive against odd stray blows.

I sort of see your point, in that a high level "pure caster" can likely stand up after being hit by a single six. Most of them probrably couldn't withstand being actively targetted by something doing six though (at least not without being immune to it/power up against it anyway). So it sort of doesn't make that much difference.


----

I'd say the trouble is more with coming up with ways to stat for parties where there's a large discrepancy in the power levels of the warriors: Do you set grades that are appropriate to the tough people, or to the lower ones?
_
Pete

[MattHowells]

I remember a part that Son Of set once which was doing 8 with a mace and 'Revenge of the Kings' or something that meant it did a minimum of 30pts of damage regardless. I think it was some sort of god, don't remember too much after it started hitting me on the head...

And while you're about it, remove immunity to bruising.
Either that or stick it on T:11....

Lucy

[JulianW]

I'm pretty sure I've made my opinion public before -
[obviously not that it matters what I think ]
but I believe that immunity to Force of Arms should be deleted from the tables,
[along with Justice of the Kings but thats another argument]

It means that the refs can then set more reasonable grades - probably stopping at 6 or so - because you know it will inflict 12pts
also it then give the non-warriors a chance to survive against odd stray blows.

A higher levels it seems to polarise between really hard warrior types and pure power users, as these seem the most likely to be able to survive.
IMHO
Mark

Please god no.
This is "Screw you mr pure warrior, bet you wished you'd gone wizard or priest now, don't ya?"
See Pete's comments.

My view is also 'please stop changing the published system'

Julian

[dnsmantra]

My view is also 'please stop changing the published system'

If things are changed to improve the game then I'm all for it.

It's a bit like car technology evolving - the technology from 20 years ago would probably still work, but just not as well as the new stuff.

Huw

[JulianW]

If things are changed to improve the game then I'm all for it.

It's a bit like car technology evolving - the technology from 20 years ago would probably still work, but just not as well as the new stuff.

Huw

Yes, but the way you build up a character, this is like car technologies evolving but you always have to buy the same make as you bought 20 years ago, even if modern day Fords are rubbish, you're stuck with Ford.

Julian

[DanM]

And while you're about it, remove immunity to bruising.
Either that or stick it on T:11....

Lucy

Its not very good anyway

By the time you get the AC etc to make it worth it, the damage grades have passed on

[Stuart]

Wow. Go everyone. Good work.

Force of Arms is fine. No problem there. Change it so it applies through AC though.
Enhanced force of arms is basically rubbish. Have an immunity available for it.
Triple enhanced force of arms is terrible. Never set it. If you want everyone to take a certain amount of damage, set a touch effect. If you want things to be inflicting weapon blows, let people apply their damage reductions.
Dump Justice of the Kings, but also trash the '30pts regardless' abilities out there. They make dungeons extremely difficult to set as anything you stat sensibly goes over in 4 blows (120 life to one location).

Stuart

My view is also 'please stop changing the published system'

Julian

Or

If you must change the published system:

a. Announce it 3 months before the change comes into effect.

b. Make a blanket ruling that anyone who has bought any ability that has been deleted/changed/nerfed, or any non-standard predicated on the system working a certain way that has been changed automatically gets to respend those points as they like, regardless of how old the character is, how many times they played after buying the ability or how many times that ability stopped them dying whilst the system worked the way it used to.