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Posted by: JonMace Dec 3 2007, 06:12 PM

This is a multi-class for my Elberethian PP who normally carries the Order of the Stars Banner

So far I have some ideas of abilities (which I will list below) but have not formulated the MC - any extra abilities would also be useful

May Parry with the banner

May cast through the banner

May discern through the banner

May call the banner to hand at will for x tblp

May always BB the benefits of the banner (even if not enough members on dungeon)

May call a Member to the banner for X tblp (whether alive or dead)

Once per day may call all members to the banner (whether alive or dead, but the player has a choice) this ability can be used after a word of recall, thus becoming a Greater Word of Recall for all OOS members - standard GWR can no longer be brought.

Healing Miracles on OOS have plus 50% benefit on members (upto 4th level) this can be upgraded to include other Elberethians at 25% post 6 for X

May cast a miracle on the Banner which remain in the banner till touching a member and saying Banner do Thy Work, this will also work as a Passive Receptical for the Standard Bearer

The Banner becomes a Spirit store granting 3 spirits per OOS on Dungeon in the hands of The Standard Brarer (no spirits may be gained form any other multi class).

X times a day may cast one beneficial miracle into banner which will effect all OOS members

With an inspiring religious speech may involk a 33 rage were combatants can only fight and non combatants can only cast, during this the Standard Bearing can only and needs to be vigiously waving the standard.

Lots of ideas I know some of them are a bit extream but any ideas welcome.

Jon Mace

Posted by: isbiraven Dec 3 2007, 07:09 PM

i like the call banner to hand, how about the banner is "part of you" and as such is immune to X/Y/Z

if you die while holding the banner your body goes into the banner??? means we can get you the hell out of the danger zone very easily....

call oos members to banner even if dead is kinda gd but i could see grit getting annoyed at that if it gets over used, "where is grit?" *bing* "why???? i was about to grab the gem we needed!!" LMAO

may choose a secound bearer in the event of your deathwho can do nothing with it bar call to hand once......would work well with the above idea...

cast through banner handy at times, goodly miracle recepticle always handy

how about a 1/day res in a stick "Get up you are needed!" style thingy.

inspiration would be v.cool, 33% cold rage always useful.

some very cool ideas Jon, I like the idea of banner bearer, spread the word and all that

T.

Posted by: Leo Dec 3 2007, 07:19 PM

Bit of a long shot but maybe by spending X times the usual amount when buying a tables resistance/immunity, it applies to all guild members within 20' of the banner while you are alive and holding it.

Other radiated generic benefits are always handy, arbitrary amounts of SAC and DAC, extra levels of resistance, live to minus, all basic stuff but all things they'll thank you for.

Posted by: JonMace Dec 3 2007, 07:42 PM

Posted by: Jasper Dec 3 2007, 07:53 PM

I had all sorts of fun with Robin's unconscious-border-priests-shift-to-his-feet ability.

How about bad things happening to people who steal the banner?

J

Posted by: JonMace Dec 3 2007, 08:16 PM

Another Idea, but I think it is too powerful

Standard Bearer may take killing blow for any the order, any of the orfder may take killing blow for standard bearer?

Jon

Posted by: MattHowells Dec 4 2007, 01:49 PM

I think you are more likely to get 'take killing blow' than 'give killing blow to my mates'.

All abilities apply within 20' or line of sight of the banner?

Banner is immune to destruction.

'Plant the banner' - 1/day while banner remains motionless and upright a spiritual sanctuary comes into effect (as the glyph)

Mass war cry

Posted by: BBB Dec 4 2007, 03:21 PM

That sounds a lot like "Goldenglade" the Michaelean Banner that was wielded by Silkglade*

She used to have a lot of what you mention. One of the cool things about Goldenglade was it was "Self Repairing" if Grand Tan'd or similar.

*Seemed randomly worth mentioning as she hasn't played in 12 years but was around last Saturday and is contemplating playing again.

BBB

Posted by: JonMace Dec 4 2007, 06:14 PM

No they have to volenter i.e. I take the killing blow for someone which kills me and someone who can survive it takes it for me, hence no one dies

Posted by: JonMace Dec 4 2007, 07:15 PM

OK trying to put it together

Name :- Standard Bearer

1st - Banner may be used to parry, deserns may be used through banner, miracles cast on OOS members may be cast through the banner, may call the banner to hand for _____ TBLP, Knows the location and well being of all OOS members. Casting beneficial miracles on members costs 0 life, if cast through the banner.

2nd - May cast a miracle into the banner, takes 30 secs preparation, and will hang in the banner till used, this still costs casting damage. Once per 2lvls may call a willing member to the banner (if dead they count as willing) ______ _____.The banner now becomes a spirit store and grants 3 spirits per level of this multiclass for beneficial miracles casting into the banner only.

3rd - 1 per 3 levels may cast a beneficial miracle into the banner which will effect all members ______ _____. Is now one with the banner, if banner bearer dies his soul enters the banner and can be restored to life at a latter date from the banner rather than the body. Beneficial miracles now have +50% effect on members, the effect of the banner now always apply to the Standard bearer.

4th - Any Miracle that is stored within the banner is now used involentory when the Standard Bearer needs it. Standard Bearer now gains active med for the spirits gained in this multiclass. If the Standard bearer dies and is not restored within 1 hour the standard returns to the Starlite Grove

5th - After a 30 second speck may inspire a 50% rage in those members that wish it, this lasts as long as the Standard bearing is waving the standard. May send willing any Member casters to the seat of The Lady where they may stay for upto 1 Hour (time to be stated by the caster when they leave) Where they are considered to be completely safe and out of the game and receive +1 med rate, but will have no idea what is happening while they are away. When they return they return to the Banner.

6th - May call all willing (if dead they are considered to be willing) members to the banner, even after a word of recall, may not now by Greater Word of Recall.

OK pick lots of whole or add to it

Jon Mace

Posted by: Jasper Dec 4 2007, 08:24 PM

OK, holes picked are;

1) Spirit Link is on the tables already
May as well have the extra spirits start at level one

2) How are the stored miracles used? I assume 'Banner do thy work'?

3) Mass total heal for 6sp 1/3 levels?
All beneficial miracles have +50% effect at all times with no prep?

4) Who's call is it when you need the stored miracles?
Are you sure you want to lose the benefits of this m/c after an hour of being dead? Just thinking about extended length dungeons...

J

Posted by: JonMace Dec 4 2007, 08:44 PM

1) Could be wrong but think spirit link is for a church - we are just an order of the church and a social guild so it would work on different people, I was trying to space it for the points needed, but I can see what you mean about the extra spirits.

2) Never thought about that but yes

3) Yes I know its hard, maybe a +1 spirit per person effected? Have an ability for another PP that grants +50 healing to all church members so dont see why not, as although this is not just healing it is more limited on who it can be cast on.

4) It works in the same way as a passive, effectively I would be off dungeon as by that time i would be within the Banner, but yes could bugger me and members up on extended length dungeons.

Thanks for the input Jasper please continue.

Jon

Posted by: MattHowells Dec 5 2007, 12:12 AM

Banner may be used to parry - makes sense
deserns may be used through banner - why? do you have touch range discerns and you'd rather poke people with a stick than touch them?
miracles cast on OOS members may be cast through the banner - needs to be made clear what you mean

may call the banner to hand for _____ TBLP - verbal?
Knows the location and well being of all OOS members - I would suggest you add 'on adventure' to the end of this. The ref is not going to be able to tell you where off-dungeon OOS members are.

Casting beneficial miracles on members costs 0 life, if cast through the banner. - seems unlikely. Possibly a reduction rather than zero. But is this something you really want to spend points on? Casting stamina and 6 points not enough? You can standardly buy no casting damage.

May cast a miracle into the banner, takes 30 secs preparation, and will hang in the banner till used, this still costs casting damage Permanently hanging miracles seems unlikely, and certainly not at will. Perhaps with a time limit and only a certain number of times per day this stands a chance.

Once per 2lvls may call a willing member to the banner (if dead they count as willing) - you need to define what this actually does. 'Calling' them could be like a neuronic message. I think you mean a word of recall type effect -if you say 'as word of recall'; you get the advantage that it cannot be prevented. Also add 'on adventure' again.

The banner now becomes a spirit store and grants 3 spirits per level of this multiclass for beneficial miracles casting into the banner only. - I assume you are a first class priest; if so you ought to be ok but you will probably get 'cannot be meditated back'.

1 per 3 levels may cast a beneficial miracle into the banner which will effect all members I should add "within 20'". Handy, but might be rather expensive.

Is now one with the banner, if banner bearer dies his soul enters the banner and can be restored to life at a latter date from the banner rather than the body.

Beneficial miracles now have +50% effect on members, the effect of the banner now always apply to the Standard bearer. - permanent +50% effect? Does the second part mean if you total someone you get a total too? No chance.

Any Miracle that is stored within the banner is now used involentory when the Standard Bearer needs it - subject to the restrictions I suggested on hanging miracles in the banner, maybe. Probably best to phrase it as you can activate the hanging miracle on yourslef with an OOC declaration. I have had similar kick-ins passed for characters, but limited to once or twice a day. You will never get a get-out-of-jail at will.

Standard Bearer now gains active med for the spirits gained in this multiclass. - unlikely, but in any case you would need to define exactly how active 'active' is. I have I think three different versions of active med, and they're all slightly different from char to char.

If the Standard bearer dies and is not restored within 1 hour the standard returns to the Starlite Grove - auto res is always handy.

After a 30 second speck may inspire a 50% rage in those members that wish it, this lasts as long as the Standard bearing is waving the standard.

I think radiated area effects are very appropriate, but a mass 50% permanent at-will rage? Come on. My previous 'plant the banner' suggestion is more realistic.

May send willing any Member casters to the seat of The Lady where they may stay for upto 1 Hour (time to be stated by the caster when they leave) Where they are considered to be completely safe and out of the game and receive +1 med rate, but will have no idea what is happening while they are away. When they return they return to the Banner. This doesn't make sense for a banner-related ability. And it is grossly overpowered. Become a blue wizard, learn mass teleport, and buy a whole lot of mana if you want your party casters to be able to med in safety and come back later.

May call all willing (if dead they are considered to be willing) members to the banner, even after a word of recall, may not now by Greater Word of Recall. I doubt it very much.

Overall I think there is too much in the class and it is generally OTT. If half of it gets passed it will be expensive. If you cut it down to make it simpler and cheaper you can avoid the problem of getting stuck in the middle of buying an expensive multiclass. You could then points app 'Post-6th Standard Bearer' abilities separately and pick and choose good ones which get passed.

Posted by: DanM Dec 5 2007, 08:42 AM

By the way,

What happens when the banner blows up? What happens when the guild blows up?

Have you made it permanent?

Call to hand @ will for the old Co9 banner was 100pts I think

I think personally, you should scale this MC back a bit and take what you really want from it. Then apply for other bits post 6th and buy as and when. It will make it much more manageable in the long run.

Posted by: LucyH Dec 5 2007, 09:14 AM

I'd agree with Dan - any ability that requires the existence of an item/guild/other named character always has that downside.

I'd try for some sort of 3-tier status, which will be cheaper and less of a pain if you loose the points, e.g.

1) May parry with banner, may cast healing miracles through the banner (don't bother with the discerns - it's not that expensive to upgrade them to 20' range).

2) May summon a willing or unconscious guild member to the banner 1/day - this acts as per a 'spirit shift' in all ways (powerbase/range). If Simon is fully capable of casting 'mantics, this becomes a 'mantic spirit shift.

3) 1/day may 'plant' the banner - whilst the banner bearer does nothing but stand there holding it, there is a Rite of the Bright God 20' around the banner. This goes down if he is struck or the banner moved.

Lucy

Posted by: giles Dec 5 2007, 09:52 AM

3) Mass total heal for 6sp 1/3 levels?
All beneficial miracles have +50% effect at all times with no prep?

Poss replace with At 3rd Level:
1/ Day may cast a Heal Miracle into Banner - all Order of the Stars within 20ft
gain Cure Serious

At 6th Level
1/Day may cast Total Heal into Banner - all Order of the Stars within 20ft
gain Heal
1/Day may cast 1 Benediction sphere miracle into Banner - all members of Order of the Stars within 20ft
benefit from this but duration is 5 minutes

Possibly you could add

1/Day May cast a beneficial miracle through the banner (including the above) for 2 x TBLP cost which has +50% effect

Giles

Posted by: Sizel Dec 5 2007, 10:45 AM

1st - Banner may be used to parry, and counts as being +0 Spiritual.
The banner gains 1 spirit per OOTS member on adventure, to a maximum number of spirits equal to the level of this class x3. These spirirts may be used by any member of the guild who touches the banner and concentractes for 30 seconds whilst casting. The banner regains these spirits "overnight", and can not do so in any other way.

2nd - Banner may be used as the focus to a Rite of the Bright God, in which case benifits of the Rite are only granted to those within 20' or within LOS of the banner and the ground within 20' of the Banner is considered "Holy" only whilst the banner has been firmly planted on the same spot for at least 1 min.

3rd- Banner's Radiance 1/2 levels (__,__): Any member of the OOTS may cast a handbook miracle of up to 3rd level into the Banner. All members of the guild who are within 20' and concentrating on this act are then effected by the miracle.

4th- Banner's Inspiriation 1/3 levels (__,__): When this ability is used all members of the OOTS who are within 20' of the banner or LOS can choose to benifit from any one of the following, for the next 5 mins: Immunity to Fear, a War Cry, a 33% rage Vs evil, +9/3 temp life, +2 levels of resistance.

5th- Banner's Call 1/3 levels (__,__): When declared can act as a Spirit Shift, transporting a single guild member within 20' to the banner's current location. OR can opt to use 2 such innates to transport all guild members within the 20' range to the banner.


6th- Banner's Wrath: Each guild member on adventures gains this as a 1/day innate. It can be triggered by each individual seperately, and only when the bannerbearer falls unconcious, dies or the banner is siezed by "an opponant". When used the innate grants any one of Immunity to Fear, a War Cry, a 33% rage Vs evil, +9/3 temp life, +2 levels of resistance, for the next 5 mins.

_
Pete

Posted by: OxMatt Dec 5 2007, 10:53 AM

Pete,

I bow to your far far superior judgement in these things, but isn't the 6th level likely to be considered too hard?

Not that I'd be complaining, as an OOS member.

Matt

Posted by: Sizel Dec 5 2007, 11:09 AM

Maybe.
It doesn't seem any more powerful than the level 4 ability.
The level 4 ability gives all guild members a benifit at once (when it's used by the person with this class)
The level 6 ability gives each guild member a benifit, once a day, at a time chosen by them (and even then it requires the person with this class to be "in trouble" for them to do it). Bear in mind a use of this innate only grants its benift to the person using it, not to all their mates as well...
_
Pete

Posted by: Bruno Dec 5 2007, 11:26 AM

Level 6 is an ability which will cost a lot, but then be annoyingly un-useful. Just saying.

Posted by: LucyH Dec 5 2007, 12:23 PM

A couple of other things to think about:

1) If you have any sort of "cast through banner" ability, you'll need to ensure that the phys-rep is safe for hitting people over the head in a fight.

2) It's a guild item, rather than a personal item. What happens if it's on a guild special that you aren't playing and gets 'lost', due to plot power or whatever?

I would include some sort of "if banner is lost/blows up may pay additional points to buy another banner phys-rep, to be used with this ability" OR "If banner is lost gains X% of these points back as a refund". Otherwise you could get shafted by something you don't have control over.

Lucy

Posted by: JonMace Dec 5 2007, 05:45 PM

Yep know that, and hope never to have to use it, but you never know.

Jon

Posted by: JonMace Dec 5 2007, 05:50 PM

1) yes it will be a safe phys rep

2) I still have the call to hand ability

3) Was thinking of going the other way and loosing res chance?

Jon

Posted by: isbiraven Dec 5 2007, 06:24 PM

need to have call to hand through and across dimensions or what ever then jon