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How many mercenaries are there and are they all known? - Labyrinthe Forum
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> How many mercenaries are there and are they all known?
How many mercenaries are there?
Looking to understand the numbers of Mercenaries
There are only as many mercenaries as active players [ 2 ] ** [12.50%]
There are as many mercenaries as mercenaries that have ever been played [ 1 ] ** [6.25%]
There are as many mercenaries as have been played and perhaps a few more [ 3 ] ** [18.75%]
There are many more mercenaries than there are players [ 10 ] ** [62.50%]
Total Votes: 16
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Trickyz
post Jul 30 2020, 08:29 AM
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Hi All,

So I have a question about the number of mercenaries on Primus / other planes.

If there are only as many mercenaries as there are active players this means it is very easy especially at higher levels to figure out who people that are immune to scrying are.

So "X" mercenary turns up on dungeon there are only 3 known mercenaries at that level that are completely immune to scrying so they must be one of "X" so should leave or die.

However;

If there are many more mercenaries than active players this means there are mercenaries out there that you will just never have met. This means it's perfectly plausible that "X" is just someone you have never met before.

It's only important in the terms of understanding if turning up on a dungeon whilst completely immune to scrying is a plausible option anymore especially at a higher level.

I mean I think having a few people / mercenaries around that are dubious / controversial / down right evil is a good thing in my opinion adds to the story can make dungeons a bit more difficult and adds an extra level to game play.

If we are at the point that if you are unknown and immune to scrying you can no longer join a mission then perhaps an element of the game is going to be lost?

Just a thought.

Richard



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sonof
post Jul 30 2020, 08:43 AM
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You are correct Rich, but as dungeons get higher the circle reduces. The probability becomes you would of at least heard of the persons reputation and stuff they have done even if you never met them.

Lee


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Netheril
post Jul 30 2020, 08:50 AM
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I havent voted, as the poll is weighted towards your viewpoint. And doesnt allow for the option that there are as many mercenaries as active characters (not players) which is what I would probably vote. But as below, I dont agree that's the main issue anyway.

My viewpoint is entirely different to yours, but that's going to be because I loathe PvP for the main, finding it very rarely adds to the day and frequently has a significant negative impact. I also find it is too easy currently for people to "screw over" the dungeon without repercussion. Which might be "fun" for them, but really isnt for the majority of the other 11 players, or 40+ players on a themeday.

I would hate to be in the position where I refuse to let someone come on a mission that I did not know and could not scry about. But that is EXACTLY what I should do IC for any mission I really care about.

And that doesnt have anything to do with how many active players there are. It's just "I dont know you, cant find out you are trustworthy, no one I trust will vouch for you, and I have been screwed over before, so get lost!". I could still do that even if there was a million other mercenaries around. tongue.gif

Now that's not the start to a day I want to have. And doesnt create a good club spirit. So I try and find a midway point, which actually means compromising my RP to try and give benefit of the doubt.

But especially for the high end of the system, one of the many things I prefer about playing at that end is playing with well developed characters with a lot of history and inter relationships. So if a stranger walks into that environment they will usually stand out, until they become known. So yes you can still play a "bad guy" at the high end but it's going to usually take either a much more subtle and patient approach, or at the very least spending the time to build up a persona that is known and trusted before revealing your true colours, and then starting the process again.

Which is a good thing in my opinion, as turning up every time you play looking to "screw over" the party isnt really something I think should be encouraged. But the big betrayal at a key moment, much more impactful and a bit more rare.

I know others feel strongly that they shouldnt be restricted from how they want to play. But it is a club and a team based game. And it is already far too easy, imo, to play an immune to comms hand in the air type. Dont think ooc restrictions on RP needed to make their life even easier! tongue.gif

All very much just my opinion ofc.

Cheers,

Sean
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atem55
post Jul 30 2020, 09:09 AM
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It's difficult when there is such a variety of players, I'm not sure, but i think the majority are probably not PvP orientated but see it as a system mechanic that is eastablished in the world?

But possibly there are more anti-PVP players outthere, is there a desire for dungeons to have a 'No World PvP' flag maybe, would that work, or is it limiting players RP too much? Its something that was almost , sort off, in place on a recent theme day i think, i forget which one?

EDIT: although, that probably then gives players so incline carte blanche to screw over the dungeon without actaully killing a player, and having no consequences...


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RichFromant
post Jul 30 2020, 09:25 AM
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There use to be a Legendary system where if you were over 7.5k you had to do a character write up, as to be a legend people should actually know your characters.

I generally think there are lots of mercenaries out there, more then there are characters but as Lee says the higher you get the smaller that number becomes and is more likely they would all know each other


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Ryan
post Jul 30 2020, 09:30 AM
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Yeah broadly I think if you want to be a 10k character with immune to comms and a persona no one ever heard of at least have a water tight established back story and roleplay... you wouldn’t turn up as an Iron and Empire priest and not know the core values of the faith!

Being a good bad guy takes time, effort and patience... you establish a disguise over years at low levels and don’t make one up every dungeon...

Broadly if you’re 5250 plus as any mercenary another mercenary should be able to vouch for you... that’s just common sense

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Ryan
post Jul 30 2020, 09:33 AM
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Worth saying we also abolished scrying licenses, I’ve always wanted to go back to them to be honest but the management is resistant - understandably for the reason you state, where we are now is a decent halfway house...

For those too young - it used to be if you were immune to comms and the Empire hadn’t licensed you, you were just an outlaw!
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miles
post Jul 30 2020, 09:39 AM
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Once a person gets a reputation as a character it ends up with

Paul, you can play but not Argoth

eventually the character can never be played.

The caves is expensive and most people are not fans of PvP as it is nearly always one sided.

Powerful assassin kills a player or two for contract or fun,
powerful evil character who can avoid most of the event steals the important object etc ruins the event and because they cannot be commed about and can always stick their hand in the air.

there is nothing that can be done to stop them so it ends up just ooc banned that type of player



Miles


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Dave
post Jul 30 2020, 09:40 AM
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I don’t even see a problem now days on a 1500, if a person turns up in the brief and immune to comms getting killed is a problem.

2/3 faiths out there who want to screw people over. If you buy immune to comms, you suffer.

Turning up on no maxes as someone people haven’t heard of before doesn’t really cut it.


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Gordon
post Jul 30 2020, 09:42 AM
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Like Sean I haven't voted because I don't agree with any of the options.

Things to keep in mind.

The Exostance is a huge place, there are persons of differing levels of power spread throughout it and more than could ever be considered for any form of census. If there wasn't the game would stop at T:11 or 10k etc. because there just wouldn't be anyone out there to act as "The BAD GUYS" TM on dungeon other than trying to go after other players.

The issue you have that while there are people of power they aren't on the whole members of the mercenary caste:
1) Because from a simple game mechanic point they likely don't possess Vitae
2) From the perception of other mercenaries they have never experienced them directly, heard of them indirectly and simply put them have never been on an imperial sanctioned hire, which in truth makes them a mercenary regardless of their moral alignment

Now when it comes to being immune to comms, doesn't matter what threshold you are at if the people around you don't trust you because they don't know you or you have a bad rep then simply put characters IC don't want you around. The higher you get the less potential people you "could" be both PC or NPC for that matter and the more likely you are to be challenged and chased off.

I have had characters that are immune to scying. It is key to playing them that people trust you and know you. I have characters that I haven't played for years that now would be really difficult to play because those characters I played with either aren't active or aren't in the same threshold anymore and most newer mercenaries would be, "sorry who are you?".

There are many ways you can build up backstory, personality and find hooks but these take effort and just showing up and not being quick witted enough to have solid and good answers to peoples questions just highlights the holes in your disguise.

Think that before monster points if you average 85 points a dungeon that means it takes you 12 dungeons to earn 1000pts. That is an awful lot of dungeon time and a whole world of roleplay and inter character bonding and learning. The higher you are in the system the richer and more complex your character, story etc. should be.

Showing up and being as unconvincing and as shallow as a character on a pre-8th where you stepped into 10 minutes before time in because there wasn't a priest and you said you'd throw some ref points at the day isn't going to get you far.


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Carlo
post Jul 30 2020, 09:55 AM
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>It's only important in the terms of understanding if turning up on a dungeon whilst completely immune to scrying is a plausible option >anymore especially at a higher level.

>I mean I think having a few people / mercenaries around that are dubious / controversial / down right evil is a good thing in my opinion >adds to the story can make dungeons a bit more difficult and adds an extra level to game play.

>If we are at the point that if you are unknown and immune to scrying you can no longer join a mission then perhaps an element of the >
>game is going to be lost?

Oh no! The element of the game where someone turns up with the sole intention of spoiling my day may be lost!! Oh the tragedy...

Like Miles said, the game has come a long way. A lot of us see it as a fun, team sport and PVP is rarer than it used to be. In the right situation, PVP can be cool when it happens, if it happens for the right reason (I've a couple of characters that have been outlawed for party killing...) I cannot stand characters who mess up dungeons for no actual reason other than to spoil other peoples day. It has to be done right to be cool, not for the sake of being evil.

As a Legendary character, if a Legendary mercenary turns up, who I have never seen before, immune to scrying. In Character, I don't want them on my party.
If I have a legal position, then I have a legal right to be awkward and worried about it. After all, these characters are ALWAYS the one to spoil the dungeon.

Hmm... Look, someone got killed and the killer is immune to coms... I wonder if it was Bob that assassin no one has ever seen before. Oh wait... who stole that item?

It's ALWAYS the one immune to coms that no one has heard of. So why would you not react IC to it? Most missions are imperial briefs, or geared towards doing something heroic. So why would they allow a dubious unknown to 'help'. Lets face it, I've always said that when you hit 10k, you stop being a mercenary. You don't need those 3,000 grulls anymore...

Like Rich said, in the old days characters had to do legendary write ups. I wish we could bring these back. You weren't allowed to buy from T12 until you actually did a write up either!

Thanks

Carlo
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jj420
post Jul 30 2020, 09:59 AM
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So i have a little bit of experience in this situation. I have found that as long as you turn up as a solid desgise and actually crack on with getting the dungeon done that as the day goes on people will start to trust you. Spread that over a few dungeons and you then have a solid desgise that can be used when ever you like.

Just my thoughts as a bell end who plays immune to coms outlaws lol
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Darkended
post Jul 30 2020, 10:01 AM
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Just gonna say, this is actually a really good read. Great topic!


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KatSables
post Jul 30 2020, 10:02 AM
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Fromum has hit the nail on the head. When you get higher points the circle is smaller. How many black wizard assassins are there at that level that’s completely immune to comms. It’s probably argoth. How many neronic, wizard assassins are there? It’s probably sonny. (Yes I say sonny because he has no role play wink.gif)

You got caught out Sunday because you told people IC who you were, not because OC info was used.

Sorry


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Forefallen
post Jul 30 2020, 10:12 AM
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My first character in disguise was Sparek, I had a rich backstory and abilities to back up and cement my disguise, I got outed 3 years after playing the disguise because a character had abilities to know
sparek. During that time I was immune to comms and regularly playing Max 10k+ dungeons.

I think there are more mercenaries out in the world, but not ones who will turn up on a hire randomly, more likely ‘evil’ mercenaries working against the empire that you’re likely to be hired to go and fight.

So typically I subscribe to Lees model; at the higher end of the system it becomes easier to find out who mercenaries are, because there’s not a lot of them that’ll turn up.

Immune to being outed using OOC knowledge, not immune to being outed by way of connecting the dots IMO smile.gif


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Ryan
post Jul 30 2020, 10:15 AM
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To be fair I’ve got an App as my Imperial Bureaucrat that sorts this issue out... I sit around processing mercenary pay midweek and from good memory for names if your IC character name has never appeared on a yellow debrief sheet I know you’re not a real person... 😂
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Trickyz
post Jul 30 2020, 10:16 AM
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QUOTE(KatSables @ Jul 30 2020, 11:02 AM) *
Fromum has hit the nail on the head. When you get higher points the circle is smaller. How many black wizard assassins are there at that level that’s completely immune to comms. It’s probably argoth. How many neronic, wizard assassins are there? It’s probably sonny. (Yes I say sonny because he has no role play wink.gif)

You got caught out Sunday because you told people IC who you were, not because OC info was used.

Sorry


Absolutely, I did caught, I also have absolutely no issue with it. I was surprised certainly but because I thought the individual could be trusted etc for IC reasons.

I have tried to make it very clear, I was perfectly fine with what happened on the day if anything I was happy with it.

However, it just made me think about how many mercenaries there actually are; as afterwards I posed the question and generally everyone said there are only as many mercenaries as there are player characters. It just got me thinking is all. Definitely no bad will from my part at all!

Several people (absolutely no offence intended) said well there are only three people who could join a party like this who are immune to scrying etc.



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Parrp
post Jul 30 2020, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE(KatSables @ Jul 30 2020, 11:02 AM) *
(Yes I say sonny because he has no role play wink.gif)


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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Ryan
post Jul 30 2020, 10:29 AM
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QUOTE(Trickyz @ Jul 30 2020, 11:16 AM) *
Several people (absolutely no offence intended) said well there are only three people who could join a party like this who are immune to scrying etc.



That’s sort of right though yeah?! There’s maybe 15 characters over 20K, 4 or 5 over 30K at a guesstimate?!

So on a real no max it’s safe to assume someone who isn’t just getting horror killed, you’ve never heard of who’s immune to scrying doesn’t exist...
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duncanmatthias
post Jul 30 2020, 10:40 AM
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So I think this comes down to what others have said,

At high level the chances that no one has heard of someone, no one has played with them, they haven’t been in world whispers, they arnt in things like Lees massive pep write up are just so small. They have never asked someone for potions or make them an item..... just so unlikely.

Then how people choose to react is an IC Role play thing.

For instance as Jez for many many years I have always said if I’m on a dungeon, and your immune to comms, no one has heard of you and I don’t know you I will attack you. Some years ago I was doing a 4-day lead-up. Sonny walked in and gave some name no one had ever heard of. Jez has known Radah for 20 years, Sonny is my mate, but guess what those divine 20’s got smashed in his back all the same. I know OOC it was Radah, I knew he was playing the 4-day but IC rules and reactions are the same.

As Bartimeaus, I’d probably take my chances, give you a mark ally and laugh later if you tried to screw us.

Other characters will have different ways of dealing with this age old problem, it’s not a new thing, it’s suddenly just become more acceptable as everyone just try’s to have fun and go yer we are all here to play a dungeon.

The problem is too many of us have been screwed in the past to; one let it ruin us IC and two let it ruin our days fun which are fewer and further apart as the average age of the club advances.

D
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