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Undead Returner - Ideas Sought - Labyrinthe Forum
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063whii
post Jan 18 2022, 12:19 PM
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Hi Everyone!

Me again; this time looking for some inspiration on improving an unholy champion's undead returner ability. I'm not certain how much, if anything, I'm going to improve it, but I'd be really interested to know what's been passed before and what sort of directions folk have taken with them. I'd also be interested in the broad strokes of how many points people have sunk into their returners in the past.

Thanks in advance,
Anthony

The Character
It's for Agravain, my human pro-imperial lawful-evil dominion stairway Unholy Champion (anti-paladin). I'm trying to build him to be as survivable as possible. So far almost all of his points have gone into increasing his DAC, PAC and picking up the armour master MC as soon as able. He's bracket-locked into warrior and will be picking up trained warrior eventually, so a multi-race isn't something I'm looking at.

What I'm Looking for
Inspiration mostly. I'm also interested to see how much of the character I could keep in the returner, as opposed to just having them come back as a generic undead of the type.


--------------------
Anthony White (OC)

Agravain, Noble by Deed, 28th Legion

Brahm Ivanovich, The Circle

Lucius

Zea Mondego
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Gordon
post Jan 18 2022, 12:33 PM
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So things I have had recently for a published Drowe returner: Al three were separte abilities:

Can speak freely and communicate with others. - 30 pts T:9

Improved HTK to 1/3rd of TBLP total on Battleboard (From base of 8) - 50pts T:9

May continue on the mission until destroyed, is returned to life or end of the adventure, whichever comes first - 50pts T:9

So 130pts total investment but 80pts for can continue playing/roleplaying which is well worth it to ensure you can continue to enjoy your day even when dead and avoid lying on a cold cave floor for 4 hours.



--------------------
Gordon Court
Port Miere business: portmierecitycouncil@gmail.com
Known to play: Amorphus, Radiant & Zaton
Cast of 2009: Amorphus, Ash, Cyric, Godstone, Kessel, Prowl, Mithaniel, Radiant, Raven, Strale, Void & Vorell
Cast of 2010: Amorphus, Aqueous, Blaen, Godstone, Hex, Kessel, Mithaniel, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Vanderlaine & Void
Cast of 2011: Cyric, Hex & Prowl
Cast of 2012: Kessel
Cast of 2013: Amorphus, Golgari, Kessel, Marimar, Radiant, Strale & "Terry"
Cast of 2014: Amorphus, Hex, Godstone, Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Radiant & Strale
Cast of 2015: Amorphus, Karador, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2016: Zaton
Cast of 2017: Amorphus, Equinox, Godstone, Golgari, Hex, Karador, Prowl, Radiant, Variel & Zaton
Cast of 2018: Amorphus, Despair, Equinox, Golgari, Karador, Lannary, Prowl, Templeton, Vanderlaine, Void & Zaton
Cast of 2019: Amorphus, Despair, Kodai No Ha, Lannary, Prowl, Radiant & Zaton
Cast of 2020: Amorphus, Isamaru, Karador, Kodai No Ha, Lannary, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2021: Amorphus, Grizzled Wolf, Isamaru, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2022: Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Lannary, Leovold, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Strale, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2023: Isamaru, Leovold, Numai, Radiant & Zaton
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DavidFisher
post Jan 18 2022, 01:01 PM
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You could apply to upgrade to an undead with spirits with the specific ability to animate yourself, carry your body off event or go tell someone you need a ress

You could "trade" your returner away (so you don't get one) in return for more power in life (like AP innates at 10th, higher base life, an innate you really want, cast dominion at base 9th etc.)

You could go for an really potent undead, but this is quite defeatist (spending points on a fab set of hits only available when dead)

You could swap for an avenging spirit (mantic I'd say) or a horrible dying effect to at least ensure your killer dies as well

David
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dnsmantra
post Jan 18 2022, 01:40 PM
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As Dusk I have a ghost returner with my personality, that other people can cast undead raising/summoning miracles into and I get those stats but my personality, alignment and freedom to do what I want vs being controlled. They last until they 'die' and then I'm a ghost again until another miracle is used on me. That lets me play out the rest of the day as something, talk and finish the dungeon, assuming someone can make undead. Would seem pretty easy to have your AP revenant be able to carry on as a spectre of you and be resummoned/etc. in a similar way.

Various people have had cast undead summoning/raising abilities on themselves while dead; so they get multiple returners. Or as others have said ways to beef up a returner. You could also get things like play your returner early for res chance, but don't actually die, and then maybe build on that so you could use slayer/similar to buffer the res chance loss of playing it when you're not actually dead. Or a m/c of embody innates which are all about embodying your returner, and maybe gives you extra returners of different flavours.

Imagination is the limit really.

Huw
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giles
post Jan 18 2022, 02:28 PM
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If you are looking to make him as ‘survivable’ as possible I’d look at a couple of things
1. Maybe multi class Survivor and then use 7th and 8th Level as n a Returner that is triggered when you go into
Your Live to Minus - and is designed to keep you alive ? So you don’t actually die

2. Given you are a Dominion specialist maybe have as a returner a Spirit of Dominion rather than undead (as you are not an undead specialist. Eg spirit of dominion may cast spiritual mastery at will at your level of command
Destroyed by a paladinic bless or spiritual freedom. Has the following instructions: either you set the instructions at the beginning of the day or ‘will dominate anyone it can to get aggravain restored’ or similar.

Giles.
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MarkD
post Jan 18 2022, 03:20 PM
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Returner of, or, as above but in place of undead, an Enslaved Spirit would be very thematic IMO.

Mark
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Onasuma
post Jan 18 2022, 03:38 PM
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My rat gets 30 minutes of handbook 1-5 undead played by me and any other dead party members who want to, starting with a Vampire who turns up to assess what went wrong. The only time since Ive died since I bought it I forgot to use it.

Heather
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Simon
post Jan 18 2022, 04:02 PM
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SKeletal warrior/Skeletal champion seems like a shoe-in; immune to sharp weapons/magic, 50% rage if hit with spirit damage...

It's a classic.
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dnsmantra
post Jan 18 2022, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE(MarkD @ Jan 18 2022, 03:20 PM) *
Returner of, or, as above but in place of undead, an Enslaved Spirit would be very thematic IMO.


On that note, I got a lot of mileage out of "summon statue" and "embody enslaved spirit", as Mallerstang even up well into the T10/T11 range and it was very good on lower level events. I suspect you'd get similar as a legion-based dominion focussed AP. It was fairly easy to get more hits for it, more damage, do spirit damage, etc.

Huw
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