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Lords Vote - Labyrinthe Forum
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> Lords Vote, For Lords of Order only
draco
post Feb 13 2019, 12:17 PM
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Fellow knights,

A vote has been called of the lords of order whether the Lord Unity has power beyond the appointment of a lord knight.

I have decided to make this public but ask that none other than the lords of order vote on the matter.

Darren

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Do the powers of the lords of orders, including Lord Unity, extend beyond the appointment of a new lord knight?

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Darren - No


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Will
post Feb 13 2019, 12:39 PM
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Ace - Abstained

(for obvious OOC reasons)


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Sharperoc
post Feb 13 2019, 12:40 PM
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I will make a brief statement outlining my views on this matter.

The position of Lord Knight is continuous, as one term ends another immediately begins. There is no gap in service, the Knights always have a Lord Knight.

If the positions of the Lord's of Orders were to immediately be made void upon appointment of a new Lord Knight there would be a gap in that continuity, which would leave no checks and balances on the decisions made by the Lord Knight.

For that reason, I believe that consistency must exist between the structures, and consider that upon election of a new Lord Knight all of the positions of the Lord's of Orders remain in effect and with the full capacity of their powers until replaced.

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Ritz - Aye




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Stuart
post Feb 13 2019, 12:46 PM
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Isaac - No

Lord Unity in particular must not be able to veto his own removal from office.

Edit: to clarify I would rather the question had been whether one’s powers endure beyond their replacement, which would be an easier matter. But it was not. if placed in a position where on the one hand we face difficulty while new Lords are declared against on the other Lord Unity vetoing his own removal from office, the former is the lesser of two evils.
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Rob
post Feb 13 2019, 01:14 PM
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As a man of faith I recognise that what we believe is biased by all of the thinks that make us who we are. This can be both positive and negative. As your nominated Lord Templar I expected to have to provide advice and decisive action in the spiritual world but did not expect to have to do so so soon in relation to men and politics.

As such I will seek to respond as “just a man” baring in mind this centres around the actions (which I have no doubt were flawless and righteous) of Castiel (a being with no sin - and I see the sin everywhere) Bare in mind Castiel is the High Priest of my church, Arch Angel of the Arch Angel of my faith, who restored me to life twice in a matter of hours on the last Knights mission and who gave me 1000s of grulls of scriptures. This makes my view difficult if not invalid.

Respectfully Lord Knight I think you asked the wrong question and respectfully new friend Isaac I think you answered the wrong question.

Yes I believe the Lords of Orders “survive” the appointment of a new Lord Knight
However No, I dont believe they or their powers should survive the naming of new Lords of Orders

Why?

Historically the election is a torrid and dangerous time. If a Lord Knight is elected then a fight immediately and invariably starts then who is Lord Battle? Until someone else is named it has to be the previous one. Now that may be seconds, hours or weeks away but logically there has to be continuity.

So my answer? Yes but No.

As for the specific issue - Castiel’s actions are flawless, for good reason and without malice in his mind (because his is not capable as far as I know to do otherwise). That does not necessarily make them legal, ethical or “right” from the persective of the Knights

Yours

Requiem


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ChrisB
post Feb 13 2019, 03:35 PM
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I currently agree somewhat with Ritz and Requiem.

At The Knights outing to announce the new Lord Knight, there was issues which meant the new Lord Knight was not named until the end of the day, at this point all responsibility fell to the Then current Lord Battle - Gimly.
So Lords of Orders remain until the new Lord Knight is able to Announce those he wishes to take those places.

But I believe that at the point the new Lord Knight names those he wishes as Lord of Orders then I believe this is when the power switches over.


So for me it would be - No


Tristan


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draco
post Feb 13 2019, 04:09 PM
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Malcolm has contacted us from legend and apologizes for not being able to send a public missive.

He has also voted no

With a majority vote, the powers of the lords of orders, voice and unity are stripped as soon as a new lord knight is announced.

With this being said. Tristan may now review my actions since becoming lord knight and either veto or ratify them

Darren


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duncanmatthias
post Feb 13 2019, 04:15 PM
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Lord Darren,

I know you only wanted comment from Lords, given your latest statement however, I feel the need to comment.

Whilst I appreciate what you are trying to do here. You can not however change the rules that were. You can obviously change the rules from now on, that is your right at this time. The past however is the past.

I would as a brother knight urge against this line on changing the past.

Castiel
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Stuart
post Feb 13 2019, 07:27 PM
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Castiel

The vote taken is an interpretation of existing rules, not a change to them.

Numerous respected Knights have expressed their concern about this decision and the way it has been made. It is right that a brotherhood listens to these concerns and considers them carefully.

I do not doubt you acted with the best of intentions and out of a desire to protect your brother Knights, but I would urge you to review the decisions given by the majority above and their reasons, and support this decision. Tristan is a capable and considered individual and I have trust in his integrity and ability, whatever decision he makes.

Isaac
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duncanmatthias
post Feb 13 2019, 07:46 PM
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I am not, and have not questioned Tristan’s capabilities.

What I questioned is you cannot change the past and the way it did work, regardless of if you want to or not. Regardless of what outcome you seek, or think you can achieve.

Castiel
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Sharperoc
post Feb 13 2019, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE(draco @ Feb 13 2019, 04:09 PM) *
With this being said. Tristan may now review my actions since becoming lord knight and either veto or ratify them

Darren


The Lord Knight has made his ruling on this above.

Regards,
Ritz, Lord Seeker.


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duncanmatthias
post Feb 13 2019, 08:00 PM
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Is that your take on it Darren?

Are you sure?

Castiel
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draco
post Feb 13 2019, 08:33 PM
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It is Castiel,

My opinion is that my actions were correct in the situation and your ruling was fair. However, it leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth and the knights have spoken along with the lords of order. My past is tarnished in some eyes along with your present. Tristan’s ruling will be fair and beyond reproach.

I have sought guidance from Imrazil and the Lord Unity has the final say. This is not a reflection of our actions but what must be done for the good of our order.

Darren


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duncanmatthias
post Feb 13 2019, 08:57 PM
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So, are you asking a second Lord Unity to have a say? If you are how does that help you and our order.

1) Tristan either agrees, and nothing actually changes, another person says they are cast out and you gain nothing. Some vocal knights continue to disagree with you.

2) Tristan goes against you, the order sees that so long as they are vocal enough they can overrule you and your lords. You become weak in the eyes of the order, forget any changes you wanted to make, you become a glorified secretary for the rest of your year.

Castiel
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StuartEaston
post Feb 13 2019, 09:18 PM
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QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Feb 13 2019, 08:57 PM) *
So, are you asking a second Lord Unity to have a say? If you are how does that help you and our order.

1) Tristan either agrees, and nothing actually changes, another person says they are cast out and you gain nothing. Some vocal knights continue to disagree with you.

2) Tristan goes against you, the order sees that so long as they are vocal enough they can overrule you and your lords. You become weak in the eyes of the order, forget any changes you wanted to make, you become a glorified secretary for the rest of your year.

Castiel


Castiel, what you did was clearly nonsense anyway. There is no precedent for the previous lord unity having any power once the election of the new Lord Knight has been ratified. This vote was just a way of establishing that it works in the way that most already thought it did. Without your vetoing of Tristan this clarification wouldn't be necessary.

I appreciate that your intentions were probably good, but knowing the character of Tristan it was unnecessary and sent a message that in fact Tristan was weak and unable to carry out his duties as Lord Unity. Even worse than that it creates an incredibly dangerous precedent that the previous Lord unity can hold any position in the knights to ransom.

Tai.
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Sharperoc
post Feb 13 2019, 09:24 PM
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I would suggest that our order is much bigger than one decision. You cannot please all of the people all of the time, and there will always be vocal knights which disagree with a decision(s) taken.

As for the second scenario, whilst I wouldn't claim to speak for the entire order and what their individual eyes may believe, I don't feel that Darrens resolve would be so shaken that he would stop seeking the changes he believes will best serve the Knights. He was elected to pursue those ideals.

Regarding Louis and Tirima, I have not spoken publicly regarding their situation and this is as much as I will say on the matter. I do not stand in defense of the lands because I took an oath, I do not protect those that cannot protect themselves because I wear a badge. I do these things because I believe they are right. I feel that desire so deeply and intrinsically within myself that I cannot contemplate a scenario where I would not.

Were the Knights not to exist, I would still do these things. Were I to be cast out, I would still do these things.

I have never traveled with either Louis or Tirima, but I hope that the same desire burns within them, whether they unite under our banner or not.

Regards,
Ritz, Lord Seeker


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covington
post Feb 13 2019, 11:16 PM
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Greeting brothers and sisters apologies for my late reply.

First I’d like to thank Darren for giving me the Honour of being lord battle

Those that no me no I’m not the best with words but I will give my opinion for the record.

I don’t like the way you have gone about your first week as our lord knight to be honest I feel you should of waited and spoken to your lords of orders before making such a drastic decision and letting unrest and concern into our ranks.

From what I’ve seen so far I don’t think the casting out of Louis and Tirima is justified in my opinion.
Also the thing called Radah even tho hes apparently good of heart and turned over a new leaf I won’t forgive him for the killing of knights of the land and countless Innocence.

My vote would have been a No for the record..

Tidas
Fury Of Imrazil
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