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Assassin development - Labyrinthe Forum
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LiamS
post Feb 18 2020, 01:29 PM
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Hi all,

I’m looking to develop my assassin - was my first ever character so needs some love again!

Any advice on building up damage grades - I can see all the backstabs and dagger masteries and blade sharpening but what do you need to get above quin (when max damage quin is bought).

I can’t properly see what I need and I’ve heard people call some very high numbers!

With the tendency I can buy from scout or warrior bracket. For RP purposes I cannot mulitclass and am forever an assassin.

I’m just over 1000 points therefore need to consider what to get once at 1500 soon and then progression again once at 3000 if not long dead before then.

Any thoughts?

Liam
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Gordon
post Feb 18 2020, 01:48 PM
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So as a 1sr Class Assassin you buy Specialist for Max Quin from behind, but that awaits you on T:10.

With 4 grades of backstab you can get to 9 1st blow in E, being Quin plus 4 grades using Greater Surprise Blows.

You need to multi-class warrior to get no max damage 1st blow, and that allows you to buy 5 weapon masteri and 2 strength as well. Just because you have entered the warrior bracket doesn’t mean you stop being an assassin and have to be a tank.

Also don’t get caught up on being purely damage grades focused, you will f find their effectiveness can vary wildly from dungeon to dungeon and referee to referee. The higher level the more you need other tricks to kill things


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NickBurne
post Feb 18 2020, 02:44 PM
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Hello mate,

I have +3 Backstab, +1 Str and +2 Weapon Masteries. Doing 7,7,Quad with Greater Surprise Blows. I can power up and do 10 once a day.

I've looked at pushing it further but wonder if it's worth the points at this stage when I could focus on immunities.

I'm still purely an assassin, just shy of 3k.

Hope that helps,
Nick.
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duncanmatthias
post Feb 18 2020, 03:04 PM
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So damage grades can be a tricky decision, you can chase them your whole career and never feel you got there. The trick is to get enough to feel happy and not sink too many points into it. Personally I’d look at 8,8,4,4, pre T10. Then 9,9,5,5 then at T11 look to do the old non standard of enhanced specialist 6 from behind taking you up to 10,10,6,6.

The real thing that will make or break you being a “good” assassin is how are you going to move around, get behind things ect, “hand in the air” so to speak. There are three main ways, stalker (as published is okay, needs a bit of post 6th non-standard work to make it better value), Race (great choice and can always do with either of the other 2 options). Go wizard, (out for you in this case)

In the old days we used to have an expression about when you knew you’d made it as an assassin, it’s got nothing to do with damage grades. “I can stick my hand in the air, and work out after how I did it”. Whilst this is obviously cheating the point it makes is you need many different and copious ways of putting your hand in the air.

Hope that helps.

D
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NickBurne
post Feb 18 2020, 03:17 PM
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Thanks Duncan,

Still learning everything, so I appreciate the advice. I just got Even Greater Stealth, so I can at will, stealth and move, but will expand on it in the future.

Cheers,
Nick.
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Patch
post Feb 18 2020, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Feb 18 2020, 03:04 PM) *
So damage grades can be a tricky decision, you can chase them your whole career and never feel you got there. The trick is to get enough to feel happy and not sink too many points into it. Personally I’d look at 8,8,4,4, pre T10. Then 9,9,5,5 then at T11 look to do the old non standard of enhanced specialist 6 from behind taking you up to 10,10,6,6.

The real thing that will make or break you being a “good” assassin is how are you going to move around, get behind things ect, “hand in the air” so to speak. There are three main ways, stalker (as published is okay, needs a bit of post 6th non-standard work to make it better value), Race (great choice and can always do with either of the other 2 options). Go wizard, (out for you in this case)

In the old days we used to have an expression about when you knew you’d made it as an assassin, it’s got nothing to do with damage grades. “I can stick my hand in the air, and work out after how I did it”. Whilst this is obviously cheating the point it makes is you need many different and copious ways of putting your hand in the air.

Hope that helps.

D


I would tend to agree with Duncan here... and would boldy venture Psionics... My Psi Master can stick his hand in the air any one of 4 ways, thee of which are broadly at will... and 3 of them dont rely on others being affected by neuronics.

I would suggest Spy and build from there though I don't know if thats an option for you... But, shifts, cameleons, invis and walk through walls are all right there as standard these days! and the invis doesn't even go down when you pounce... but that is the one that is dependant on the target.

Just a two penneth...

Patch


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giles
post Feb 18 2020, 03:21 PM
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Just as an addendum - a few people have had cheap no max damage type stuff with the pre-requisite of 'if I have got behind someone without sticking my hand in the air' - so whilst it's definitely worth being able to stick your hand in the air - you can get credit for real world sneaking

Giles.

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LiamS
post Feb 18 2020, 03:50 PM
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Some really nice info. Thanks everyone

There’s certainly merit in not chasing numbers - probably need more in defence than attack with the times I’ve been hit!

I have a points app the locks me to assassin but gives me more tendencies and earlier. It’s the horrible ones and it fits the character’s development based on dungeon experiences so that’s why no MC.

Definitely plenty for me to think about and I’ve not even delved into poisoning people yet.

So many ideas, so few points!
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DavidFisher
post Feb 18 2020, 05:24 PM
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Just remember being bracket locked does not mean no MCing. There are lots of great MCs that are in the scout bracket.

David
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BBB
post Feb 18 2020, 06:43 PM
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QUOTE(DavidFisher @ Feb 18 2020, 05:24 PM) *
Just remember being bracket locked does not mean no MCing. There are lots of great MCs that are in the scout bracket.

David


Indeed, Spy is a good cheap Scout Class one and there is a fairly common "Predictive Strike" type pts app where you get an extra damage grade versus a target you've just Psi-Scanned as you can predict their reaction to the blow and can counter that.

BBB


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LiamS
post Feb 18 2020, 08:01 PM
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Thanks.

I didn’t realise if I took a ‘cannot MC’ restriction I’d still be able to expand within the scout bracket itself
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JonMace
post Feb 18 2020, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE(LiamS @ Feb 18 2020, 08:01 PM) *
Thanks.

I didn’t realise if I took a ‘cannot MC’ restriction I’d still be able to expand within the scout bracket itself


Most people write on Yellow Paper "cannot leave bracket" if you have written "cannot MC" then you cannot MC but would be worth having a chat to Lee to see if it an be changed to cannot leave bracket and how much it will cost.

Cannot MC is a immense restriction
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LiamS
post Feb 18 2020, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE(JonMace @ Feb 18 2020, 08:25 PM) *
Most people write on Yellow Paper "cannot leave bracket" if you have written "cannot MC" then you cannot MC but would be worth having a chat to Lee to see if it an be changed to cannot leave bracket and how much it will cost.

Cannot MC is a immense restriction


Understood!

Pretty sure I did write cannot MC and is forever an assassin - which is totally fine as it just means a focus on other things and perhaps some niche possibilities due to a severe restriction!

Otherwise some tolerable damage, stacks of immunities and then hide and kill until I’m dead.
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Alasdair
post Feb 18 2020, 08:50 PM
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If you want bus numbers then you can quickly get Greater Surprise Blows to stack with blade sharpening.. lots of non standard things to tighten up blade sharpening, eg from Tinker or as a specialist tendency or MC. +2 on 1st blow stacking is not too hard. With 3 backstabs that gets you immediately to 9 which is lots.

As system creep continues, there is a rise and rise of ‘special’ damage. For instance on the last Tuesday club we had ‘green mana or ranged only’ demonic things doing fireblast by blow. The one before had silver for a werewolf. (Both good dungeons). You’ll find value in Slayers Blow type abilities (eg from Ki Strike) - doing a baneful type of generic damage on a blade (eg ranged white mana, but not ‘the great horned axe of Sharmyn’)

And as is well covered, get outs, hand in the air and sneaking are awesome. On this I had some cool stuff passed for a dark elf: use X shadowshifts for a 5min at will shift power up, change darkness innates (which are hard but tedious) to be shadowmeld. Etc. This is all very doable but depends on your base and flavour.

Enjoy!
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ChrisAndrews
post Feb 18 2020, 11:02 PM
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QUOTE(NickBurne @ Feb 18 2020, 03:17 PM) *
I just got Even Greater Stealth, so I can at will, stealth and move, but will expand on it in the future.


It's worth saying that this will get you behind a monster but won't get your away. Above about about 3k you'll keep getting hit - invisible doesn't mean invulnerable or that blows don't connect. Oh a higher level high level event an experienced monster will just keep going.
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NickBurne
post Feb 19 2020, 05:24 AM
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QUOTE(ChrisAndrews @ Feb 18 2020, 11:02 PM) *
It's worth saying that this will get you behind a monster but won't get your away. Above about about 3k you'll keep getting hit - invisible doesn't mean invulnerable or that blows don't connect. Oh a higher level high level event an experienced monster will just keep going.


That's what has been happening to me even on lower points dungeons, in response I bought as much life and AC as possible, but still find I'm waiting for warrior types to engage and then throwing in what damage I can. What do you suggest being a 'pure' assassin at this time?

I'm reluctant to multiclass beyond Stalker and don't really want to yellow paper until I have a better grasp of the system as a whole.

I also quite like the idea of being a 'physical' based character, although I am tempted by the neuronic route as this feels pehaps closest to the old 'Ki' powers of old, from a role playing perspective anyway.

Cheers,
Nick.
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duncanmatthias
post Feb 19 2020, 07:35 AM
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One of the things I found helped a lot was I had a points app called.
Ohhh that hurt. (Excuse the name different days) - after hitting a target in the back for at least 4 blows if they are not completely immune to pain their next three blows against me is at minus 3 max damage. From memory it was expensive but a lot cheaper than enough AC and life

D
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LiamS
post Feb 19 2020, 07:48 AM
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QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Feb 19 2020, 07:35 AM) *
One of the things I found helped a lot was I had a points app called.
Ohhh that hurt. (Excuse the name different days) - after hitting a target in the back for at least 4 blows if they are not completely immune to pain their next three blows against me is at minus 3 max damage. From memory it was expensive but a lot cheaper than enough AC and life

D


I really like that idea!
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