IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> The Knights of The Land
Patch
post Mar 10 2020, 10:31 PM
Post #1


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 479
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



All,

Thor, Aven and I are currently discussing the recent ruling by the Lord Knight.

I want to make it clear that the Knights are a fine and honourable organisation and both Aven and I served as lords of orders at one point, and I believe the Tai, is currently the Knight of Unity.

In fairness to Tristan the situation has been this way for some time, its one of the main reasons I could not remain a knight... but he has made it explicit and clear.

Either, Myself, Aven, Or Thor will comment here shortly with the Churches official response, If you have concerns or views you wish to be accounted, please contact any of the three of us privately. Or make open comment below.

Let the Light Shine Forth... Forever.

Harpell
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Saladin
post Mar 11 2020, 12:07 AM
Post #2


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 474
Joined: 17-February 09
From: United Kingdom
Member No.: 873



You are not even a Knight anymore.


--------------------
Hoz
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TimTreadwell
post Mar 11 2020, 01:37 AM
Post #3


Hero
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,960
Joined: 25-November 07
Member No.: 155



And you, Sir, are not a Follower of Talthar.

Yorso.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patch
post Mar 11 2020, 07:00 AM
Post #4


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 479
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



QUOTE(Saladin @ Mar 11 2020, 12:07 AM) *
You are not even a Knight anymore.


No but he is an old and dear dear friend to me and this church...

Saladin,

There are members of the Knights that are members of this church.

The knights are a truly special organisation and they have my upmost respect. The lord Knight has clearly stated that he expects all knights to hold the knights as equal (or higher if possible) to any other belief they may hold dear, be that political, racial or religious.

In effect he has asked our priests who are members... and there are many... and he has asked you... to hold a mortal organisation equal to the divine...

It is not a question of will there ever be a divergence... of course their won’t the knights are good people... the question is can a priest in good faith hold anything else as sacred to their God?

You are welcome to listen old friend and by all means contact me privately if you wish.

Harpell
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nige
post Mar 11 2020, 07:41 AM
Post #5


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 355
Joined: 26-November 07
Member No.: 162



Since returning to the moral realm Talthar not only permitted me but also encouraged me to rejoin the Knights.

Personally I agree with Saladin's words (although obviously I feel dirty saying this)

Gravain
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patch
post Mar 11 2020, 08:03 AM
Post #6


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 479
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



QUOTE(Nige @ Mar 11 2020, 07:41 AM) *
Since returning to the moral realm Talthar not only permitted me but also encouraged me to rejoin the Knights.

Personally I agree with Saladin's words (although obviously I feel dirty saying this)

Gravain


There is no need to feel Dirty... Saladin states a fact I am not a knight.

Your commitment to them does you great service my friend, and let me be clear Aven, Thor and I are discussing the situation. No one is making sweeping judgements, but both Thor and I feel it’s important that the priesthood knows what we expect of it.

I understand similar deliberations are taking place in other churches.

Harpell
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patch
post Mar 11 2020, 01:38 PM
Post #7


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 479
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



These are Avens words... heed his wisdom.

Good afternoon my friends,

After the announcement from the Lord Knight, I ask you to read the wording of guild oaths, rules and ethos in relation to Talthar and make a decision based on your thoughts, as to whether they can align and if to stay in the guilds or not.

May the light shine forth...

Aven

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
StuartEaston
post Mar 11 2020, 08:09 PM
Post #8


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,571
Joined: 23-November 07
Member No.: 105



I am going to write a much longer reply when I have time, but I will be travelling to a mountain to defeat a nefarious black dragon and will probably not have time write a full reply until Friday at the earliest. To me Lord Tristan's declaration makes no difference to how the Knight's of the Land have been since I have been a member, this is the way it has been for about 20 years since Moonglum. I think over time people forgot and the lines were blurred. I strongly believe in my membership of the knights and being a member of the Church and I find it a remarkably light burden to follow the tenets of both organisations, in fact I believe they go hand in hand. The Knights are practically made of Goodly priests, without them I don't believe it would exist as an organisation. Once I have more time I will lay out my reasons and hope to convince you of the same.

In hope,
Tai
Lord Unity
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheFury
post Mar 11 2020, 08:57 PM
Post #9


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,184
Joined: 23-November 07
From: Parts unknown
Member No.: 61



I with Tai on this one, would happily have a Knight on a session with me than many other organisations and really can't see how they would clash with our faith.

I've made it clear to anyone asking of my own reasons for not being a Knight, mainly Necromancers etc. However that has never been about faith and I have never thought less of someone for being a Knight. I can't think of many other groups that have done more for the people.


Lucian Flynn


--------------------
Attention randomly typing monkeys.
The reply button does not dispense bananas. That is all.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patch
post Mar 11 2020, 08:58 PM
Post #10


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 479
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



QUOTE(StuartEaston @ Mar 11 2020, 08:09 PM) *
I am going to write a much longer reply when I have time, but I will be travelling to a mountain to defeat a nefarious black dragon and will probably not have time write a full reply until Friday at the earliest. To me Lord Tristan's declaration makes no difference to how the Knight's of the Land have been since I have been a member, this is the way it has been for about 20 years since Moonglum. I think over time people forgot and the lines were blurred. I strongly believe in my membership of the knights and being a member of the Church and I find it a remarkably light burden to follow the tenets of both organisations, in fact I believe they go hand in hand. The Knights are practically made of Goodly priests, without them I don't believe it would exist as an organisation. Once I have more time I will lay out my reasons and hope to convince you of the same.

In hope,
Tai
Lord Unity


Hello Tai,

I think it's probably me... maybe I just get peoples backs up... I'm confrontational, and then I can't or won't back down... It would probably be better if I kept my mouth shut... alas that is something I am REALLY bad at.

Anyway, the point is, Thor came to me last night and asked my views... (I think he does this because he knows well enough that he can wind me up and set me off then I get all the grief and he looks whiter than white...) we bring Aven in and we start to discuss.

Thing is, I love the knights and I wish I could find a way to make it work for me, but bottom line is I have two issues I just cant square.

Firstly, I don't want to play nice with bad guys, I really don't, they are bad... and it takes more than joining a guild (even one like the knights) for me to get over that... It has happened on one or two occasions... but it takes a long time and a lot of blood.

Secondly, I think that the Knights stance on faith is just plain wrong... I agree you shouldn't use it as an excuse to break your oath, but in many ways the knights "Is" a faith of a kind, a band of brothers a noble ideal... and I can't measure that against Talthar and find it equal, I couldn't when I was mortal... and I certainly cant now.

The thing with Tristans announcement is, it was poorly worded... I'm the last person to shout, I have been accused of trying to destroy the knights today, and frankly that can only be down to wording, because that's not what I want. but the thing is wording is important.

Tristans statement, did not say "If your faith prevents you from honouring your commitment as a Knight" neither did it say "I won't accept "god made me do it" as an excuse for breaking the oath" it said... (I paraphrase) "You must hold your oath to the knights as equal to the faith in your god"

Frankly if he'd said either of the first too fair do's, but the last one... that's not a case of I expect you to stick to the oath and I'm not interested in your excuses... that's saying your promise to the knights is as important as your promise to god. I don't think it is, and all the priests in this faith should understand that.

Now, Aven has spoken and basically it's up to each and every one of you to look at your promises and work out what you can and should honour... the simple fact is that the likelihood of your duties to god and your duties to the knights coming into conflict they are tiny... genuinely... but if they do, and you have to make a choice then you loose... because either Tristan will cast you out, or I will seek your excommunication...

Tiny chance, never gonna happen... the knights are good I get that... But if (BIG IF I realise) it does happen, Then either way you lose.


I look forward to your long and rambling reply... I will likely write one back so that some other people can be frustrated with me...

Harpell
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patch
post Mar 11 2020, 09:12 PM
Post #11


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 479
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



QUOTE(TheFury @ Mar 11 2020, 08:57 PM) *
I with Tai on this one, would happily have a Knight on a session with me than many other organisations and really can't see how they would clash with our faith.

I've made it clear to anyone asking of my own reasons for not being a Knight, mainly Necromancers etc. However that has never been about faith and I have never thought less of someone for being a Knight. I can't think of many other groups that have done more for the people.
Lucian Flynn


Many of my oldest and dearest friends are knights... the knights are good... If you think I have said anything other than "The Knights are Good" please point out where, because I've reread what I wrote a few time now... and I can't find the bit where I said...

"The knights are all a bunch of d!cks lets jack them all in and sack the Rest..." because if I managed to say that I really didn't mean too.

what I have said over and over is that Tristans original decree of (paraphrasing again) "Your promise to the knights must be equal to your promise to god" was not something I personally felt was a good thing and that Thor, Myself and Aven were discussing it...

Tristan later clarified it to (paraphrasing again) "God made me do it" is a [----] excuse for breaking the oath and it won't count...

That's fine I get that all good no harm no foul...

In summary... the knights are good, what they expect of you is also broadly fine, if you can put up with unholy champions, black wizards and whatever.

Like I say if you can see where I said "Knights are bad" do let me know.

Harpell
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stuart
post Mar 11 2020, 09:26 PM
Post #12


Legend
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,748
Joined: 23-November 07
Member No.: 39



Apologies for the intrusion, but I have journeyed with you all a number of times and am pleased to call many of you friends. I hope you don't mind a short reply, and hopefully Thor could vouch for me if needs be.

Harpell, we haven't met. But given Tristan phrased his original statement poorly (which I think he did), but he has since clarified what he meant, would it not be a really good thing if you and others could do the honourable thing, accept his correction and get back to working together to make the world a better place? I say this in particular because since I joined the Knights a couple of years ago I've seen how the dedication, commitment and sheer bloody-mindedness of people like Tai can rekindle the flame of hope in the hearts of those who had been lost in despair. Isn't that what Talthar stands for?

More than any other faith, I think the Knights and Talthar share something fundamental in common in bringing hope to those who have temporarily mislaid it, and it would be a real shame for an enduring and powerful alliance to be lost over a poorly worded letter.

Thank you for your time,

Isaac

P.S. I haven't really met any evil knights. I've met some that wield evil spirits or black magic, but they are so far down the list of people who actually need to be dealt with that it just wasn't a problem. If the Knights can lead the dark-hearted to do good, isn't that also a great thing?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patch
post Mar 11 2020, 09:51 PM
Post #13


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 479
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



QUOTE(Stuart @ Mar 11 2020, 09:26 PM) *
Apologies for the intrusion, but I have journeyed with you all a number of times and am pleased to call many of you friends. I hope you don't mind a short reply, and hopefully Thor could vouch for me if needs be.


Yeah... it seems this one is a free for all... Honestly it's the least of my concerns.

QUOTE(Stuart @ Mar 11 2020, 09:26 PM) *
Harpell, we haven't met.


No we have not... if we had you'd know, that I always answer a confrontation, and it's in my nature to escalate it, you'd also know that sometimes... I think its a really good idea to just keep bashing away at me till I loose my rag... I really really do

QUOTE(Stuart @ Mar 11 2020, 09:26 PM) *
But given Tristan phrased his original statement poorly (which I think he did), but he has since clarified what he meant, would it not be a really good thing if you and others could do the honourable thing, accept his correction and get back to working together to make the world a better place?


Yes! Yes! I did that six messages ago, then Saladin told me I was a cock or whatever, and now people keep talking at me and I'm getting angrier and angrier about the whole thing...

and we said FINE!

SIX MESSAGES AGO!!!

QUOTE(Stuart @ Mar 11 2020, 09:26 PM) *
I say this in particular because since I joined the Knights a couple of years ago I've seen how the dedication, commitment and sheer bloody-mindedness of people like Tai can rekindle the flame of hope in the hearts of those who had been lost in despair. Isn't that what Talthar stands for?


the knights are good... look this is not your fault, in fact you solved the issue with a well timed rewording... so honestly thank you, for a bit it was all getting messy so you should do that more often

But for Aven's sake...

Harpell… God of War, and Aspect of Hope in Adversity... everyone gets on his case... he keeps talking and talking and getting more and more stressed... more adversity... more stress... more adversity... and I don't want you to stop... oh no...

QUOTE(Stuart @ Mar 11 2020, 09:26 PM) *
More than any other faith, I think the Knights and Talthar share something fundamental in common in bringing hope to those who have temporarily mislaid it, and it would be a real shame for an enduring and powerful alliance to be lost over a poorly worded letter.


six messages ago...

QUOTE(Stuart @ Mar 11 2020, 09:26 PM) *
Thank you for your time,

Isaac


you are welcome I love an argument... its what I exist for... literally so you guys just keep it up all good I will live for ever...

QUOTE(Stuart @ Mar 11 2020, 09:26 PM) *
P.S. I haven't really met any evil knights. I've met some that wield evil spirits or black magic, but they are so far down the list of people who actually need to be dealt with that it just wasn't a problem. If the Knights can lead the dark-hearted to do good, isn't that also a great thing?


Yeah, I'm also a bit of a idiot when it comes to being needlessly judgemental, its probably something to do with the fact I don't have any free will like you do, and that I'm created to fight hopeless battles.

Harpell

ps. We really are cool, Aven said so six messages ago and I shouted at Saladin... but I would strongly advise we keep up the arguing because that's what I am for...


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SamR
post Mar 11 2020, 10:29 PM
Post #14


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 673
Joined: 23-November 07
Member No.: 92



I would suggest we all stop poking this particular bear, it’s a relatively simple and personal choice to make.

The High Priest has asked every knight to think upon their own position and act as they see fit.

Harpell’s ramblings are clearly not something that can be reasoned with. For the record, I’m not particularly impressed with someone turning up after a long absence and immediately throwing around terms such as ‘pushing for excommunication’ to members of our faith such as Tai - who I have far more respect for than someone I’ve only read about in scriptures. Perhaps, a little more humility and respect towards those that have been working in our Lord’s name over the past decade...

Henry
Divine Aspect of Subtlety
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patch
post Mar 11 2020, 10:51 PM
Post #15


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 479
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



QUOTE(SamR @ Mar 11 2020, 10:29 PM) *
Henry
Divine Aspect of Subtlety


Really, you sign things now... ok...

QUOTE(SamR @ Mar 11 2020, 10:29 PM) *
Harpell’s ramblings are clearly not something that can be reasoned with.




QUOTE(SamR @ Mar 11 2020, 10:29 PM) *
For the record, I’m not particularly impressed with someone turning up after a long absence and immediately throwing around terms such as ‘pushing for excommunication’ to members of our faith such as Tai - who I have far more respect for than someone I’ve only read about in scriptures.


I built this faith with my blood... I don't expect you to respect me, but understand that when we were nothing but a joke to the whole damn world I worked and bled and died to make us something more.

This faith, this church is my child... and yes it lived on without me, and grew and blossomed and I am so very very very proud to think that something I helped create has a life of its own.

You don't have to respect me... but like it or not my role in this faith is one that means I end up being the b'stard.

Furthermore, what I said specifically referenced every Kinght who is a member of this church, not just Tai, but all of them...

QUOTE(SamR @ Mar 11 2020, 10:29 PM) *
Perhaps, a little more humility and respect towards those that have been working in our Lord’s name over the past decade...


Sigh, I am very angry, and I don't mean to disparage anyone of the faithful... and I'm not sure I have, but if I have then, I am sorry.

this faith and church means more to me than you can possibly know.

Harpell
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Carlo
post Mar 11 2020, 11:02 PM
Post #16


Legend
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,543
Joined: 23-November 07
From: Rochester
Member No.: 119




Really, you sign things now... ok...



I just thought that Henry was one of the many guises of the true aspect of Subtlety - Selgard.

Oliver.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sizel
post Mar 12 2020, 11:26 AM
Post #17


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,037
Joined: 27-November 07
From: Portsmouth
Member No.: 176



QUOTE(Harpell @ Mar 11 2020, 09:51 PM) *
ps. We really are cool, Aven said so six messages ago and I shouted at Saladin... but I would strongly advise we keep up the arguing because that's what I am for...


Well said,

Saul
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 26th May 2020 - 12:18 PM
Original Darkness Skin Created by Danellis
Converted by Mdgshorty of New Horizon Skins