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> Defense questions
Brucifer
post Dec 30 2007, 07:10 PM
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Quickie for you...Rockskin. Precludes the use of all other defense abilities i believe. So no AC, Numerical, fractional, percentile and one presumes Parries of the limbed variety.

Does anyone know of abilities that may allow Parries with Rockskin, however limited in application? Or are they allowed anyway?

As usual, answers in a howler please...

B


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Bruno
post Dec 30 2007, 07:29 PM
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Actually... Rockskin says

"The protections offered by this spell do not stack with any other defences including distancing combat, Plate Self, normal armour class, rages, numeric damage reductions or anything which reduces the damage you take. The best protection is assumed to be taken between the rock skin and whatever other defences are owned by the wizard."

so it seems to me, if you have e.g. Forearm Parry, that's a better defence versus blows to the forearms than Rockskin is, so you use the parry. If you have AC12, that's better against Single than Rockskin is, so you use your AC. Etc.

Unless there's some miscellania somewhere I've missed out on.


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LucyH
post Dec 30 2007, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE(Bruno @ Dec 30 2007, 07:29 PM) *
Actually... Rockskin says

"The protections offered by this spell do not stack with any other defences including distancing combat, Plate Self, normal armour class, rages, numeric damage reductions or anything which reduces the damage you take. The best protection is assumed to be taken between the rock skin and whatever other defences are owned by the wizard."


Does Rockskin stack with Bedazzle / Ebon Tendrils type abilities that remove the monster's damage grades before the blow hits you?

I have always assumed yes, but over the 3-day had a discussion with other people who insisted that the answer was "no", and had been errata'd as such. Though as with many Cavie rulings it was one of those "I heard it from a bloke called Ed who heard it from a bloke called Paul" type conversations.

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Gordon
post Dec 30 2007, 07:38 PM
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As Bruno says, you take the best defence.


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Brucifer
post Dec 30 2007, 07:49 PM
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So that would be on a case by case basis, in this case the location struck gets the best defence at the time? And thats gospel? I ask because of writing a class and wondering if i need to put in 'Parries now apply during a Rockskin'.

Thanx for the help though. biggrin.gif

B


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Remember, if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything.

Brucifer Morningstar lvl 40 layabout

Aerbael Winterhand - Icedancer of the Great Stag
Felix Arneherne - Accident prone Noble of Halgar
Shoju - the Black Dragon
Shyft - N.T.S.J.K.W
Tengu Mitsu - Sohei of the Temple of Thunder, Fortune of persistence
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Bruno
post Dec 30 2007, 08:04 PM
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I was directly quoting the Wizards Grimoire text above, so unless there've been errata since then, you apply whatever's best when you're hit, but you can't combine multiple defences including the Rockskin, only whatever's best, one or the other.

Work out what damage you'd take, is it more than 1/grade, if so then apply Rockskin, if not, then apply whatever else you have instead.



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Carlo
post Dec 30 2007, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE(Bruno @ Dec 30 2007, 08:04 PM) *
I was directly quoting the Wizards Grimoire text above, so unless there've been errata since then, you apply whatever's best when you're hit, but you can't combine multiple defences including the Rockskin, only whatever's best, one or the other.

Work out what damage you'd take, is it more than 1/grade, if so then apply Rockskin, if not, then apply whatever else you have instead.


I thought Bedazzle did work with Rockskin,

Because, Beddazle works on your target, ie, I cast Bedazzle and Rockskin, because I am bedazzled the Warrior doing quin with 2 WM, can only use his strength and base damage (ie, triple), so it is my enemies that are unable to use masteries against me, not a self damage reduction.

Then, your rockskin applies.

Ebon Tendrils doesnt really have anything to do with Rockskin... it either, gives you 4PAC or makes you immune to monsters with no masteries.

I could be wrong, but we'll see.

Carlo

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iainwimble
post Dec 30 2007, 09:56 PM
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Well i think rockskin applys with bedazzle from what i know.

I have heard in the past that Bedazzle and Ebon Tendrils didn't stack as it would make you immune to all blows as such and so it was said by the GSM (not to sure if it was Bruno or Mark but i did remember it being said).

Iain
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Bruno
post Dec 30 2007, 10:29 PM
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Ebon Tendrils doesn't need to stack to work, it's not connected.

Dazzling Lights or whatever it's called clearly does workwith Rockskin, because it targets a monster and reduces their power, it's not your defence.

Bedazzle is a bit less clear - conceptually you'd think it would work given what the two spells do, by the wording of Rockskin it's woolly though, because Bedazzle might be considered 'another of your defences', with which Rockskin says it cannot stack.
I don't think anything in writing makes it 100% clear so probably just wants a ruling either way to avoid two refs making opposite decisions type problems.

(Bedazzle+Ebon Tendrils, I am sure I errata'ed loooong ago to not stack, but don't remember if it's in writing somewhere nowadays... )


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Carlo
post Dec 30 2007, 10:36 PM
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QUOTE(Bruno @ Dec 30 2007, 10:29 PM) *
Ebon Tendrils doesn't need to stack to work, it's not connected.

Dazzling Lights or whatever it's called clearly does workwith Rockskin, because it targets a monster and reduces their power, it's not your defence.

Bedazzle is a bit less clear - conceptually you'd think it would work given what the two spells do, by the wording of Rockskin it's woolly though, because Bedazzle might be considered 'another of your defences', with which Rockskin says it cannot stack.
I don't think anything in writing makes it 100% clear so probably just wants a ruling either way to avoid two refs making opposite decisions type problems.

(Bedazzle+Ebon Tendrils, I am sure I errata'ed loooong ago to not stack, but don't remember if it's in writing somewhere nowadays... )


Yeah its definately in writing...

me and jj do use the dazzling lights/ebon(y) tendrils combo though. but well, if you're going to spend 21 mana on an encounter it should probably do something :-)
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BBB
post Dec 31 2007, 12:12 AM
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(1) Rockskin (currently) still is taken as the best out of your defences so AC 12, Immune to Bruising still makes you immune to Double i.e. you don't suddenly start taking 2pts of damage because you have a rockskin up.

(2) Bedazzle the assailant loses weapon masteris, its an attack against them (thus they may easily acquire immunity to Bedazzle)

(3) So someone suceptible to Bedazzle tends to be inflicting less damage - which then goes nicely with use of Rockskin as a defence.

(4) Bedazzle + Ebon Tendrils currently still do not work together as that would very easily grant you complete immunity to weapon blows. The Immunity to weapon blow aspect is quite a potent distinction as it covers Touch Effects as well as damage and not just a case of reducing the damage to 0.

(4) Currently Rockskin and Bedazzle do work together - there is no errata saying they don't. Unlike the Bedazzle + Ebon Tendrils style combo, which would make you just Immune to the weapon blows, Rockskin + Bedazzle doesn't make you immune to the weapon blow it just reduces the damage.

Rockskin + Bedazzle cannot reduce the damage to 0 or make you immune to the weapon blow. Sufficient AC + Immunity to Bruising and Bedazzle can take the damage to 0 on its own (without the Rockskin) but it still won't make you immune to the weapon blow e.g. Touch Effects will still land and trigger.

Stats to wonder why he never casts Ebon Tendrils...

BBB


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Jasper
post Jan 2 2008, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE(BBB @ Dec 31 2007, 12:12 AM) *
(4) Bedazzle + Ebon Tendrils currently still do not work together as that would very easily grant you complete immunity to weapon blows. The Immunity to weapon blow aspect is quite a potent distinction as it covers Touch Effects as well as damage and not just a case of reducing the damage to 0.


sad.gif

Clearly you can forearm parry during a rockskin. Just like you can parry with a sword during a rockskin.


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Stuart
post Jan 2 2008, 11:06 AM
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Yeah, bedazzle and rockskin stack. It's a bit of an oddity in the system, but bedazzle reduces damage before you get struck so it even applies to force of arms and the like. You may well have triply enhanced force of arms, but when you hit me you're doing it with no masteries, so you're only tripling the damage you hit me with.

If you strength drain someone doing quin with force of arms they're only doing 4 pts a blow not 5 because it's their damage call that's decreased, not your damage reduction applying.

Stuart
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