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Labyrinthe Forum _ System Clarifications _ Queries about the new books

Posted by: sonof May 16 2016, 12:00 PM

Please ask the queries about rules in the new books here.


Posted by: DanM May 16 2016, 12:04 PM

QUOTE(sonof @ May 16 2016, 01:00 PM) *
Please ask the queries about rules in the new books here.



Can you opt to take "Emotionless" as an existing neuronic character?
What happens with emotionless and the benefit of buying adept about emotion restrictions?

Yes you can, and adept doesn't change. It means its 30 seconds before you neuronics come back.


Posted by: dnsmantra May 16 2016, 12:45 PM

Are Silverfolk really not outlawed anymore?

Where do you want me to post typos, misprints and so on for v16.2? (as I have a few).


silverfolk are still wanted, dead or alive.


Posted by: GNW May 16 2016, 01:07 PM

If something is costed differently this time around can you keep what you have already purchased at old price or do you need to refund and re-buy it?

you get a refund and re-buy it at the new cost if you want to keep it.

Posted by: iainwimble May 16 2016, 01:12 PM

Can a Troll who has gained 1/2 effect Fire go Fire Demon gain complete Immune to Fire.


P.s thanks to everyone who put their time into creating these new books.

they can go fire demon, but the restriction about resistance to fire still applies, so they don't gain complete immunity.


Posted by: Helsvell May 16 2016, 02:33 PM

Can classes which do not have a 1st class buy-as (such as Leywalkers) but the new statuses? Can classes which start in two brackets buy statuses from both?

the status' are not 1st class buy as, they are based on your base class being in the relevant bracket. So if your base class is in the warrior bracket you can buy them. So for ley walkers they are scouts and druids, so can buy both.


Posted by: Mart07 May 16 2016, 03:23 PM

In Wiz Grim, would a Chromatic Wizard who buys Metallic Wizard only gain/be able to cast Jade if goodly and Onyx if evil?



correct goodly for jade, evil for onyx, neutral suffer.


Posted by: BBB May 16 2016, 06:29 PM

Can High Wizards take the Natural Talent Status and remain a High Wizard? i.e. does it negate the class restriction about reading mana glyphs?




Posted by: BBB May 16 2016, 08:08 PM

What colours can Faeries take? There does not appear to be a restriction on them being "New Colours" it just says "Standard Spell".

Have they changed or are the same as previously?


they have indeed changed. New fairies can be "new" (as in around longer than some players have been alive) colours. This doesn't let existing one change.


Posted by: Leo May 17 2016, 08:21 AM

If I buy immortal to 6th but not the upgrade, so I'm immune to physical damage but not physical effects, can I still call physical effects?
What about damaging physical effects like poison?

Physical effects yes, damage no.

Posted by: MattJ May 17 2016, 08:59 AM

Now that Word of Command exists (Bronze Spell) isn't Power Word Die now completely redundant (i.e. 1 is 4 mana less, has the same immunities apply and can be used as a VOP die in any event).

I agree I can't see any reason you'd want Power Word Die really, and if people want to respend it they can.


Posted by: markradford May 17 2016, 05:05 PM

hi lee

thank you to you and all the other people who put time in on this project.

1 quick question so far I have purchased the table 6 total immunity to neuronics and in the new books you need psionic retardation .am I correct the above ability will stop working till the pre-requisite has been purchased,and if the is any other pre-requisites added to any other abilitys they would need to be purchased as well? seems correct but just a quick check


[i] Correct it's 40 points more basically.
Paladin etc. Spiritual buy as has changed, so worth checking that out.
Pathed characters and casting mantics.
Fire elf and complete immunity to fire.
Having a position of power anywhere.
Can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

Posted by: BennyB May 17 2016, 06:00 PM

Philosophical questions : Should toughened skull (immunity to subdual damage) still be there? And if so is there a description of subdual damage?

Nope, it is tradition smile.gif

I can't see 'e' skill for goblins anywhere, I think that this went before these books and was in miscellaneous meandering. Altogether possible that it has been deliberately removed. Just wanted to check.

Goblins don't get E skill, enjoy smile.gif

I'd also like to echo the thanks of all above to everyone who has been involved with putting the books together.


Thank you


Posted by: Stuart May 17 2016, 08:21 PM

Given you can acquire new colour glyphs as specialists, can any colour wizard now read scrolls of them? (Wiz Grimoire, p.90, 4th Bullet Point)

Can Warlocks now read teaching scrolls of combat-related glyphs without an ability?



yes and yes.


Posted by: Ryan May 18 2016, 08:50 AM

Level Drain - Sorry Wraith's Touch...
Appears to have a duration of Permanent, can levels no longer be recovered without an external influence or do they still naturally return?


It's always been permanent, since instant would mean they come back straight away. You can get them back just as you used to be able to.


Posted by: Estarriol May 18 2016, 02:00 PM

Is there any difference in system terms between a longbow and a shortbow (damage grades etc)?

not at all


Posted by: Estarriol May 18 2016, 05:15 PM

Scout Book - Specialist states that Quin becomes the new base for Surprise Blow. Does this include Greater Surprise Blows or is that still based on Quad+Backstabs?

yes it includes greater surprise blows.


Posted by: Ironcore May 19 2016, 04:37 PM

Scouts (and wizards) - I assume they can now read any colour basic magical scrolls (apart from opposite if they have a colour)?
No alignment restriction for reading the 'new' colours?


Correct, except for jade/onyx and sabre spells.


Posted by: Woad May 20 2016, 09:15 AM

Morning all,

I don't suppose it's possible to order the new books online/via the phone and have them delivered?


Email the booking lin and Duncan should be able to help.


Posted by: iainwimble May 20 2016, 06:13 PM

Is count as 7th going to be removed as Steal Life Essense is no longer needed ??.


it is no longer on the tables.


Posted by: Leo May 20 2016, 10:46 PM

If I'm an evil priest and I buy "servant if carnage" and then buy light of glass to stop being evil, do I lose the benefits of servant of carnage?



Posted by: Rob May 21 2016, 08:12 AM


Elemental bound - great new race

If someone is bound to a colour - for example an ivory wizard elemental Lord - can they multi race bound elemental (gnome) and still cast the racial spells and innates?

Similarly a red wizard gone mancer who has not second coloured - can he go elemental bound sylph (aka purple people eater) and have access to the racial spells and innates



If you have a specific restriction then you can't use the spells, so ivory Elemental Master would be out, as would a mancer unless they had them as a colour.
Elemental Master would be ok though, as they are not specialists and the restriction is on specialists.


Posted by: BBB May 21 2016, 12:42 PM

So, I made an assumption about the wonderful new statuses that you couldn't buy multiples of them unless you were a dual class, like say Psi-Master, in which case you could take one neuronic and one warrior.

However its been pointed out to me that it doesn't actually say that anywhere.

So, can a character buy as many of them as they like with the usual proviso that abilities e.g. Extra life, spirits don't stack from other statuses and you just take the best of each?

And why are there no Statuses for Pure Colour Wizards? A lot of the statuses have benefits related to Specialists.

I know they are intended as examples but it would have been nice to have one for 'mancers / Elemental Lord types.


Each bracket is different and it says in the description bit for each bracket how it works. Wizards is only one as it represents how they learn spells, Druids can have several. it is intentional. Dual bracket classes (warlocks) can get status' from both brackets.
You answered the question in that colour pure wizards already have an ability in Elemental Master for them.


Posted by: BBB May 21 2016, 08:42 PM

Armoured Defence in the Armour Master MC. IS that a 5 minute Rockskin style defence or a one blow defence?

Its not really clear. Seems pricey for a one blow and cheap for 5 minutes.

Also, was there any particular rationale for allowing Priests to buy innates of Advanced Miracles post 6th Devout Priest but not allowing Wizards to buy inates of Advanced Spells post 6th Archmage?

Or Druids, Arch Druid and Advanced Evocations for that matter?


5 minute defence.
Druids get the option of doing them post some of their status'.
I also want a difference between the classes, the big one is wizards can get over double the power of priests so seemed fair that priests have a slightly better innate buy as, which has always been the case.


Posted by: Estarriol May 22 2016, 10:43 AM

If a class buys as 2nd class X as part of its base buy-as, does it buy as "1st class Any" in that bracket? (I'm thinking of Vivomancers if that makes any difference - do they count as a 1st class in either priest or wizard bracket?)

Vivomancers are essentially pathed from 1st level - does this mean that like a pathed wizard or priest, they could also multiclass to a different bracket?

Vivomancers do badly in that they are second class wizards and priests, so no they can't but 1st class any.
They are also specifically in two brackets and pathed rather than the normal being in one bracket and pathed to the other.
They have got better though (lost the buy as penalty) with the new book but are still a niche class


Posted by: Estarriol May 22 2016, 10:45 AM

You can take 1 multiclass and 1 path to 8th. If these are both standard multiclasses (e.g. Warrior Priest paths wizard and multiclasses to Ranger), does this mean you get the buy as 1st class 4 times benefit for both?



Posted by: Ironcore May 22 2016, 12:08 PM

Wizards Grimoire

In relation to my previous question.
(P90 making scrolls)
Still reads that only New Colour wizards can read new colour scrolls

I don't know what you mean that line doesn't exist, no honest it doesn't.....

Just ignore it, it's wrong smile.gif


Posted by: Ironcore May 22 2016, 05:44 PM


How does 'magical concealment' differ from using 'solitaire' as both make you immune to elemental/mana sight?
'Solitaire' being a perquisite for 'magical concealment'


You can trigger magical concealment when you are carrying items, have attacked or otherwise broken the Solitaire restricitons


Posted by: graham1980 May 23 2016, 11:38 AM

I have just been reading the statuses at the books, and have a few questions

can a character purchase more than one status

Should a spirit warrior takes a status that grants power do they retains or does it become 0 until they take spiritual choice

conversely is the same true from above for vochstellen, i am assuming so.



Each class has different rules and it says per class.
Spirit warriors can only use the spirits if they have spiritual choice, you are correct. Likewise vochstelen, wayfinders etc.


Posted by: Estarriol May 23 2016, 07:41 PM

QUOTE(Estarriol @ May 22 2016, 11:43 AM) *

They have got better though (lost the buy as penalty) with the new book but are still a niche class

Thanks for the previous answer. Can I ask what does "niche class" mean in practice - are niche classes meant to be weaker than mainstream classes, or are they meant to have the same level of potential as mainstream classes but you need more work (yellow paper) to get there?

Another way of asking is that when you are looking at points apps, do you think "oh well you chose to play an X, bad luck if you wanted to be as good as a mainstream class" or do you tend to give the niche classes more latitude because they start out weaker?.

Thanks for answering this sort of question - I'm not meaning to be difficult, but I and I'm sure quite a few other players really value being able to understand how you see things.

weaker no, just less open to newer players. So Vivomancers benefits are all based on them being Elysians, and from there the being mancers etc.
They are very good at the lower end of the system (mantics early etc.) but as they go up the points a priest gone wizard, or the like, over takes them. Do they have potential, yes. But no one has really gone for it. The high points vivomancers have been class changes (soth) or perm died and rebirthed (Remstar/Bob) before going far enough to establish anything.
I guess hey are a bit like Power Warriors, people haven't done much with them so what is out there to publish is limited.


Posted by: iainwimble May 24 2016, 07:04 AM

Is it right that Paladins who have gone Battlemasters can no longer as standard by Holy Words ??.


Not quite. In order to buy a holy word of any type you must have an innate of every miracle on the basic tree. So if you go battle master you won't be able to use some of these


Posted by: graham1980 May 24 2016, 10:48 AM

another question or two

Are 2nd class paladin UC and GK now in both the priest/warrior bracket

Also, the alignment chart for creating a miracle list has change, so am i assuming that in theory any neutral priest can have up to 9 spirits of goodly miracles on his list regardless of thier l/c outlook??

No Paladin etc. are just in the warrior bracket.
Neutral priests pick either good or evil and can then cast neutral and that alignment. Their base list can have up to 10 spirits of the relevant alignment. So C/N can have 10 good or 10 evil.


Posted by: graham1980 May 24 2016, 11:55 AM

Ok another one for spirit warrior but i think this will be the last one for a little while, honest

Can spirit warriors benefit from the free casting granted by power mastered (may cast 1 miracle from thier major sphere of up to 3rd once per hour for 0 spirits) and similar abilities??



Posted by: BBB May 24 2016, 12:31 PM

QUOTE(graham1980 @ May 24 2016, 11:48 AM) *
Neutral priests pick either good or evil and can then cast neutral and that alignment. Their base list can have up to 10 spirits of the relevant alignment. So C/N can have 10 good or 10 evil.


Actually WFA under miracle list creation it now says that if you have 10 or more good spirits worth of miracles then it's a goodly list and if it has 10 or more evil then it's an evil list.

Which is a change from previously having up to 10 good made it LN and up to 10 made it evil CN.

Can we assume that is an error and it should be as it was previously that it's having more than 10 good or evil miracles stops it being a neutral list and that, as the new intention that you can be CN/NN/LN and have up to either 10 good or evil spirits worth of miracles on your list?


Yep it should be more than 10.


Posted by: Stuart May 24 2016, 06:58 PM

Should duellists and kensai be on the list of characters who can get Contramastery all weapons (Y:10 and T:11)? I've always thought of them as better at it than warriors and monks. Maybe it's a points app?

Why does Greater Rainbow exist, when it's much better to buy Specialists 2, 3 and 4?


Nope. They get to be good against swords a lot easier. If they want all weapons then it's go battlemaster or be a warrior smile.gif

Honestly I can't see a reason anyone would buy it, but it's been there for a while.


Posted by: Leo May 24 2016, 10:06 PM

I've just seen that baronies Demons can be priests now.
It says that if they're evil they have to follow the spiter.

In light of recent events, can they now choose a different faith, or does praying to the spiter still work?

good timing isn't it smile.gif Spiter day stuff is still being worked out but getting spirits from the "spiter" still works at the minute.


Posted by: graham1980 May 25 2016, 10:06 AM

Ok. to much book reading to assimlate. Just been looking at the race book. A troll or ogre taking Onie or fortune from the amlesian status, day they gain human intellegence, does this mean if they are a wizard they no longer need to purchase thier way up thier casting levels. Like wise does this mean trolls no longer have thier restrctions on buy as because they were always based on trolls being thick as 2 shourt planks??

Similarly, those who were witchdocters become wizards, does this mean they may choose any colour avaible to thier alignment or are they still limitied according to the witchdoctor colour they chose??

and one for more spirit warrior, How does bound spirit work and similar work for them, i am assuming once again they cannot use them unless you have spiritual choice or spiritual acceptence.

It jus changes their intelligence, they still need to buy up their stats and have the same buy as. It just means they can roleplay normally.
Colour wise no, they are still limited on their base colours.

And correct on spirit warriors.


Posted by: dhurrell May 25 2016, 10:37 AM

Races book
Spiritual vessel - the description talks about them abandoing the physical world and by 6th they're immune to all bar spirit.

So - are they purely spiritual and therefore can walk through walls? Gain Spirit sight? If not I'm assuming they maintain a physical manifestation, but nothing can meaningfully engage with it, therefore they could still pick up physical objects?


Think of it like a perm spirit form.


Posted by: dhurrell May 25 2016, 10:49 AM

Again from Spiritual Vessel (races book)
.. and would Spiritual Nature ( 1/2 effect all magic based mantics) count as relevant resistance to X based mana. In particular I'm thinking about mantic Annihilation, or would they still need to pay full 120pts cost for resistance to black mana which seems extreme for a remote scenario.


It means if a mantic comes from a magical base you have 1/2 effect, just like the 1/2 elf ability for spirits.


Posted by: Rannock May 27 2016, 12:06 AM

Wizard's Grimoire, Page 25, it says that Vochstelen "may never under any circumstances acquire mana points".
I seem to remember that the previous ruling (as far as I can see on the forums), was that they may only acquire mana if the multiclassed to/from a class that was able to acquire mana points i.e. warlock or wizard.
Does this mean that this rule has changed?


If they go wizard or the like that's fine. I didn't notice it but it is probably badly written.


Posted by: Nibs May 27 2016, 08:15 AM

Budokas now have "wealth and potion restrictions" as per monk.

Can they still use items?

Yes, they always had those restrictions.


Posted by: Estarriol May 27 2016, 10:31 PM

Can you confirm that the removal of Supreme Sacrifice from the tables is not an error?

It was an error.


Posted by: Estarriol May 28 2016, 02:38 PM

Warrior Book:

1) Contramastery vs Weapons - Is this a 6pt contramastery or does it work at 9pts if the user also has Enhanced Contra Mastery or Enhanced Counter Mastery?

2) Also, while I'm here: Contramastery can be purchased multiple times by some classes - can they also purchase Enhanced Contramastery multiple times?

It's 6 points unless you buy the ability enhanced contra mastery weapons, which is on table 11.
Nope enhanced contra mastery is only once.


Posted by: BBB May 29 2016, 12:41 PM

Given the option to start a Berserker as a base class was removed in the change to the books prior to this one should there still be "1st Class Berserker" abilities available?

Or are they left there for anyone who wants to MC 8th Level Beserker?


er it's still there for the few individuals that plays berserkers as a base class.


Posted by: BBB May 29 2016, 02:22 PM

Spiritual Innates for Paladins/GK/UC

The updated buy as reads as: “May now purchase innates of standard miracles from this tree at 10pts per spirit point. A higher level innate can only be owned as many times of the miracle before it. E.g. to purchase a two Total Heal innates they must have purchased two of all pervious miracles on the tree.”

Ok, the change in how Paladins/GK/UC buy innates so that they buy as Spirit Warriors used to buy* means that above the example given is now a little contrary to the new way that innates are bought.

For instance, if an AP has four innate Animate Zombies and two innate Animate Skeleton as part of his base list does this mean he can straight away buy two more Animate Skeletons to bring him up to four in total (as per “A higher level innate can only be owned as many times of the miracle before it”)


In order to buy two extra Animate Skeletons he must first buy an additional two extra Animate Zombies to give him 6 x Animate Zombies and 4 x Animate Skeletons in total (as implied by the example given).

*BTW it was about time that the madness of the Warrior Subclass getting a better spiritual buy as than the Priest Subclass was fixed! smile.gif


it's not contrary really. Your 1st to 8th lvl innates are what they are. Post 8th it follows the rules about buying up trees as they are listed.


Posted by: fatteacher May 29 2016, 09:47 PM

8th level Trolls get innate PAC +3. On the Tribal tables they get the option of +3 innate PAC to purchase for 35 points. I'm guessing one of these is wrong. Which one please?

the tables is a hang over from trolls getting 2pac base not 3.


Posted by: JonMace May 30 2016, 07:43 PM

Mysttic - Neuronic Whip 1/3 levels - should this be 1/2?



Posted by: Martinj May 31 2016, 11:36 AM

A couple of questions about Human Awakeners, particularly where they seem impacted by rules that seem more related to the Farfolk nature than being an Awakener:

Should they be able to buy Mind Bar?

Should they be able to acquire Read Languages, Read Glyphs, Rec Mana and Rec Spirit if they later acquire the ability to buy these (eg multiclassing)?

Awakeners can't ever make anything and can't buy make healing. Yet they can take the Chirugeon tendency (which requires you to have Make Healing) - is this an error?

Awakeners are listed as having access to tendencies 'as leywalker' - as they have their own section for tendencies in the new ATSE, should this be changed?

they can, but at normal not discounted cost for mindbar.
Nope, they are tough enough so can suffer the same restrictions as farfolk.
It's a hang over, but I'd say because they can go pathfinder and get make healing, and then take it.
And yes the leywalker bit should probably have been removed.


Posted by: Nibs Jun 3 2016, 11:25 AM

Friars can wear light armour and have max AC6

Pure priests can't wear any armour and have max AC7

Is this correct? If so: Huh? smile.gif

be glad they lost a lot of the other crazy restrictions smile.gif


Posted by: graham1980 Jun 3 2016, 01:18 PM

Why is the cost of foundation of faith so expensive? in the case of grey knight/UC the maximum possible amount of spiritual innates gained is only 10 where as the cost of this ability is 125? why is it so expensive when it would be cheaper to buy innates?

AP's also get a repel good so it works out about right.
It means if you have wfa innates on your list you can get more, which is the only way.


Posted by: dhurrell Jun 5 2016, 11:28 AM

For those Amlesians etc that need to buy the new published statuses for continuity and there's a big chunk to buy, can we do it with all new points gained, or do we have to respend to free up enough points to buy the appropriate rank/table immediately?

Dave H

you can buy them with your next set of points.


Posted by: Abel Jun 5 2016, 08:20 PM

When a Troll takes Fortune/Oni and gains human intelligence, what happens to the restriction, such as armour use and casting at half level and only up to 4th spells, which are based on them being too stupid to be better at? Do they remain or fall away, with the gained intelligence?

This got asked already. They stay. The change in intelligence means yuo get to roleplay but stats don't get better.


Posted by: Estarriol Jun 6 2016, 08:52 AM

What should a player do if they look at the new books, look at their existing character, and think "the way I did that with that character doesn't make much sense now" - i.e. none of the abilities you have are illegal, they are just really sub-optimal or feel like a bit of an odd way of doing things with the system changes? Is that tough or should we be talking to you, and if so how do you prefer to talk about this kind of stuff?

Come and talk to me and probably do some sort of respend of the bit syou want to change but losing some points/res chance.


Posted by: TimTreadwell Jun 6 2016, 11:54 PM

HI Lee..... can new colour spells not be used by non new colour characters?

An item of the silver "Tell Strength" for example?

Probably mentioned somewhere.... but I've not seen it.

Haven't had time to read all the books thoroughtly yet.... but liking them a lot. smile.gif


Anyone that can utilise magic items can use new colour items, unless they are your opposite.

And thank you smile.gif


Posted by: Abel Jun 7 2016, 08:16 AM

Is it correct that super monk spirit now has a 100 point pre-requisite of immune to BB&SM and stayed at 225 points as well as losing fear from the immunities it provides.

Yes, and still bargain.


Posted by: graham1980 Jun 7 2016, 10:05 AM

If a wizard paths to spirit warrior, take spirit warrior to 8th then MC to warlock, What does this do to the warlock, are they restricted in colours to thier original wizard coulours? are they counted as pathed? would they get a seperate pool of non pathed mana or would they just get access to thier warlock spells with thier mana and not be able to use it mantically. I checked and this seems a possible combination because it still only 2 brackets and a path and was really wondering how it would work.

The warlock is pathed as well, because it's two brackets and a path.


Posted by: graham1980 Jun 7 2016, 10:41 AM

Level 4 spirit vessel grants immunity to non damageing effects from any source but spirit, would this also mean you could not DO any of those effects except damage? for example trip, or use a plate self?

Correct, no using at that point, or benefiting at all.


Posted by: daork Jun 7 2016, 01:13 PM

The +2 mastery for power master still reads as only for bo-sticks. Should this be changed to be in line with the new 'chosen weapon' style

Yep, doh.


Posted by: graham1980 Jun 7 2016, 06:16 PM

another spirit vessel question, How does the fractional damage reduction affect thier own damage out put before becoming purely spiritual? i mean what would be the maximum physical/magic damge able to be infliceted at 5th level?

as per the published rules when you have better than 1/2 effect you are at -2 max damage.


Posted by: JackFlashblade Jun 8 2016, 07:12 AM

Halflings can MC as humans.

If they do so will the lifescale they use need to be applied for on a points app?


definitely an oversight. Yes you'll need to ask and I can find an appropriate scale.
The life won't be very high though (probably Ancient folk).


Posted by: graham1980 Jun 9 2016, 06:57 PM

Does the spirits from vessel of the spirits "stack" with any other MC that grants spirits as it states it is seprate pool??

yes, in that they are separate to your main pool and spiritual healer etc. add to your main pool.


Posted by: Helsvell Jun 10 2016, 06:15 AM

There are several multiclasses which grant a pool of 12 power which regens. Can you buy these and benefit from the regen if your main power source regens as well? It seems thst it should be able to work this way as they are separate pools but this gives the potential of gaining up to 2 power back per 5 minutes.

as they say they don't work with any form of med or power regen. Be it ability, spell, item. It's either the class or the other source.


Posted by: Helsvell Jun 10 2016, 09:25 AM

Sorry I am probably just getting confused but does this mean if you buy the multiclass you can no longer med back or regenrate your normal power pool? Or just while the pool or 12 power is being regenerated?



if you start medding/regening from your main pool the power from the class stops regening.


QUOTE(Helsvell @ Jun 10 2016, 07:15 AM) *
There are several multiclasses which grant a pool of 12 power which regens. Can you buy these and benefit from the regen if your main power source regens as well? It seems thst it should be able to work this way as they are separate pools but this gives the potential of gaining up to 2 power back per 5 minutes.

as they say they don't work with any form of med or power regen. Be it ability, spell, item. It's either the class or the other source.


Posted by: graham1980 Jun 12 2016, 12:57 PM

From level 4 vessel of the spirits "immunity to effects that are not spiritual" would this include rages and similar abilites being used to resist spiritual damage?

In general no. Things like Jump/Rages and stuff are fine. Monk Loc however doesn't work.
Some degree of common sense applies.


Posted by: Mart07 Jun 13 2016, 04:44 PM


So just a query regarding something thats already cropped up here (and been answered). As per part of Stuart's query on 17th May below -

Given you can acquire new colour glyphs as specialists, can any colour wizard now read scrolls of them? (Wiz Grimoire, p.90, 4th Bullet Point)




yes .


Can any colour wizard read and learn teaching scrolls of "new colours" spells? the bullet point mentioned above reads -
* "New Colour" wizards may make scrolls of their glyphs as per above - but these scrolls may only be read by a mana users of the same magical colour of the scroll"

Which to my mind doesn't imply any wizard can learn them. Also if they can, then what is the point of the T1 Grey Wiz ability A New Rainbow. Or is it that as a Grey Wiz you get extra specialist slots for new colours?

Sorry if this is obvious, and I may well have missed something, but....



As mentioned elsewhere when the make bit got added to the book that was left in by mistake. It also says earlier in the Grimoire they can be acquired as specialists now.
The point f the grey wizard ability is as you guessed they get one of each of the colours.


Posted by: Rethrisse Jun 22 2016, 08:13 PM

Currently reading the Shadow Daimon race. Level 1 gives you perm 'Mantic Ally Darkness which doesn't give See Through - what is this actually for? Darkness ® follows you anyway, and the only other thing that the spell Ally Darkness gives you is the See Through.
Also, the level 3 ability is Darkness (s). Is that correct? I.e. wouldn't follow you around, or is it meant to be ®?

It means other darkness ranges cast on you can follow you for the first part, and it is indeed darkness self


Posted by: dhurrell Jun 23 2016, 07:37 AM

Scout tendency 'Killer'
Says "may buy Mighty Strikes and related abilities as a Warrior".

I just want to clarify if should be as 1st class warrior, as the pluralisation of Strikes seems to suggest it's not just 'Mighty Strike 1' which is the only non-1st Class warrior subclass Strike ability?
If not, it seems it's just Mighty Strike 1 and Poised & Ready, so in total seems to be the much weaker of the two compared to Cut throat?


Dave H

It's as warrior only. Yes it's not great, but it does give a good buy as for masteries as well if you want to go dabbler as well.


Posted by: graham1980 Jun 23 2016, 05:27 PM

Level 2 of vessel of the dead states that they may count as a "body" for the sumonation of undead, Would that include the following list, Vampire since "the body" becomes a vampire?

Any form of skeleton?

Wraith, as once again requires a body that must be wounded??

or is it literally only zombie, ghoul, mummy and similar such are animated corpse??

wraiths don't require bodies, no idea why you think they do.

It lets you embody any undead with physical hits.


Posted by: Dave Jun 24 2016, 03:36 PM

The dragons breath - free spell per 1/15 mana.

If you have gone mancer, pathed can this be mantic?
Assuming yes

you know what they say about assuming.

It stays magical.


Posted by: waynej69 Jun 24 2016, 08:37 PM


Can you clarify the first class warrior ability contra master all weapons. i.e. walk me up the buys to get to it please?

it says from: Counter mastery and contra mastery vs 3 weapons.

but Counter and contra were always mutually exclusive? hence the 'lesser' equivalents of both.


contra mastery and counter mastery are not exclusive any more.


Posted by: BennyB Jul 14 2016, 09:45 AM

Pretty sure I know the answer to these, but I thought I should check.

Dabbler now allows you to multi-class to other scout types and Super Dabbler allows you to break the 2 bracket rule with restrictions.

1 - I assume that I could if I were a human pathfinder with super dabbler multi-class to rogue and then wayfinder (even though rogue prevents you from gaining spiritual abilities).


2 - If I were a scout of a race that couldn't normally start as one of the scout plus types (a goblin perhaps as a purely hypothetical* example) could I still do the above, so the Super dabbler allowing you to do something overruling the race not allowing you to, I assume not, but wanted to check?


*Perhaps not purely hypothetical

depends on the initial race and how they multi-class.


Posted by: TimTreadwell Jul 18 2016, 12:13 PM

It says that the Priestly classes, including Spirit Warriors, "do not gain the ability to utilise magic items as standard".

Therefore could a Warrior m/c Spirit Warrior use a magic item as the Warrior does have the skill?

Following on, now that priests can have beneficial spells cast on them that do not go down on the use of a spiritual power, could said warrior carry a magic item and still use his powers/discerns etc as a Spirit warrior?



You get to use magic items.
I will point out I'm going to pay attention to this and may change my mind in the future if I think it isn't working.


Posted by: Rethrisse Aug 4 2016, 06:09 PM

Witness of the Hidden Secrets Status Stage 2 grants Detect life at-will - is that as Neuronic Detect Life? Or is that a misspelled Detect Lie? (And if the latter, does that function as the paladin ability?)

It's a mis-spelt detect lie.


Posted by: dhurrell Aug 17 2016, 08:49 AM

QUOTE(waynej69 @ Jun 24 2016, 09:37 PM) *

Can you clarify the first class warrior ability contra master all weapons. i.e. walk me up the buys to get to it please?

it says from: Counter mastery and contra mastery vs 3 weapons.

but Counter and contra were always mutually exclusive? hence the 'lesser' equivalents of both.


contra mastery and counter mastery are not exclusive any more.


Planning a warrior spend to include 'contra mastery all weapons' that requires both counter and 3x contra masteries, I noticed that contra mastery still reads "may not buy this if counter mastery is already purchased and vice versa'. Is it safe to assume this is an oversight then?


I thought that line had been removed in the new books, if it's still there it's wrong.


Posted by: Gordon Nov 10 2016, 10:39 AM

Evolution Classes:

Can't find the costs for Magical Artisan or Magical Calligrapher or who they are available for.

I have page 61 ending with "Priest (Neutral)" then Page 62 is "Archer"

They are listed under High Wizard, but should also be available to Wizard as well.


Posted by: bendy Jan 4 2017, 02:15 PM


Under telekinetic in the M/C book it states that a tele pen does 6/3. Given the change in neuronic offensive effects that mean a pen now does 6/6 etc should a telekinetic equivalent do the same as the neuronic equivalent ie 6/6 as well for a tele pen.



yep, was missed.


Posted by: fatteacher Jan 9 2017, 10:16 PM

Is it a requirement for players of existing Amlesian characters to buy one of the racial social classes?
I.e. Do I need to buy the Warrior based one for my monk and are there any IC issues with not having purchased one?
Thank you

You don't have to buy the 12 rank status' as they are specifically tied to certain social standings. You do need to buy yuor social status (table 1 abilities).


Posted by: miles Jan 13 2017, 03:33 PM

Vochstelen buys as 1st class grey wizard, can they buy elementalist or over the rainbow, if they have some way to gain mana to cast the spells they could learn.


Yes they can buy them, and depends on how they get the mana really as it is probably a non-standard way.


Posted by: JasonE Jan 19 2017, 04:24 PM


Just noticed the change in the cap for Fetches, does the cap count fetches from items?

thanks in advanced

J - the thing known as Dog



Posted by: Cildan Jan 19 2017, 06:04 PM

Using Vessel of the Dead, could you embody a Spiritual Knight or a Wraith Warrior?

Assuming you mean Skeletal Knight yes, but not a wraith warrior.
They need to "require a body".


Posted by: Tomodachi Mar 9 2017, 02:28 PM

In the Priest book, it says that Grey Wardens build a miracle list as Hermit Priests but MAY build a list with 30N, 15G and 15 E of which 10 total can be advanced. Is this may or must? E.I. can a grey warden build a miracle list that was just good and evil spirits.

Thanks in advance for this

Nope, probably hang over wording from the Supplement. 15/15/30 is what you get.


Posted by: Ryan Mar 10 2017, 10:33 AM

The status Noble Guard in the warrior book... If I use infused with blood would my armour also apply to pure magic and spirit as it is now magical / spiritual or is this a one liner upgrade.

(It pains me to post this and not just assume it works until Sam catches me and then tells you what I've done) wink.gif

Sam is right.... but yes it is a simple enough app I'd guess.


Posted by: MarkD Apr 8 2017, 09:29 PM

Enhanced weapon mastery shield for 1st class warriors says "Can never inflict mre than Quin unless a Battlemaster", whereas for warrior subclass says "Now has max damage Quin unless a Battlemaster."

Which of thse is it?


The first class warrior one. Basically if you have enhanced weapon mastery quin unless you've gone battlemaster you can never go above quin. It doesn't mean you get to do quin.


Posted by: RichFromant Apr 18 2017, 02:39 PM

The Druids chosen field ability doesn't have the "minimum 1EP" restriction on it like all the other EP reductions in the book. I am presuming this was missed off in error & caught by the blank rule that nothing can be reduced to 0 power unless specifically mentions it? Ryan on the other hand...

yep should be minimum 1.


Posted by: graham1980 May 16 2017, 06:10 PM

Is it fesable to points app a new status based on your class like the deci assassins for example??



Posted by: TheOG May 29 2017, 10:31 AM


Alchemical Preparation is listed as 50 points. Is this a change or have I got it wrong for a long time?



It's not changed in ages.


Posted by: graham1980 Jun 5 2017, 07:55 PM

I still have the white "at the sharp end" and it states that pathfinders can use medium armour and CANNOT upgrade this, does plate mail facility abilty supercede this or is this a hard restriction??

Yes it works because it is specifically a pathfinder ability., but going warrior wouldn't work for it.


Posted by: bendy Aug 29 2017, 08:26 AM


The neuronic status wild talent says you can use a neuronic with the maximum number of foci every ...

Apologies for denseness but what does this mean. Does it mean any published neuronic even if you don't have an innate of it? And what does the foci bit mean?



It means when you use a neuronic you have enough foci to reduce it to 1/3rd of the starting cost (or 1/6th if you are an Adept).


Posted by: Ryan Sep 8 2017, 04:09 PM

I can't believe no one has spotted or mentioned this and maybe I am blind but I don't think so...

The old option to buy Mantic Spells and Miracles at 5pts per power point is eluding me in the new books, now you just buy all advanced for 250pts

Is this correct or a mistake - hoping a mistake as some colours just don't have 50 power of stuff worth making mantic?

It was just one of those formatting errors, and I think it has been asked as I remember answering it.

You can still do this.


Posted by: graham1980 Nov 27 2017, 07:50 PM

In the white book, It says that paladins cure disease is 1/3 levels, is this correct or a typo??



Ben 1/3 levels forever.


Posted by: graham1980 Nov 28 2017, 09:31 PM

White power warrior walk on light innates is also 1/3 is this correct??



Yes its correct.


Posted by: Darkended Jan 31 2018, 10:24 PM

In the current Almanac it says in the tier abilities for Council of Jade "The Ox's Strength" : gains one innate Disciple. Is that supposed to be an innate Discipline? tongue.gif

[I] Correct /[I]

Posted by: Sharperoc Feb 14 2018, 04:30 PM

Druid Conclaves

Looks like most of them add up to 60 EP apart from 'The Beast Within' which seems to total 49EP, is it missing 11EP of animal related evocations somewhere?

Yes it is wrong, I will put a post up with new evocations that I add. And yes Cats Grace is wrong it is 3 EP.


Posted by: Alasdair Feb 26 2018, 08:59 PM

Some wizard questions...

If a Sorcerer MC Wizard what happens re colours. 1st is sorcerer, presumably Wiz is whatever you want (eg red,grey,ebon) then second colour can be bought as either but isn’t starred so not as both. So you could end up with Sorcerer/Grey/Ebon etc etc.

Correct, but be careful of opposites and restrictions.

If a Power Master MC Wizard, then presumably they can learn spells of other colours? So a brown Power Master goes brown wiz and is able to cast grey, 5 specialists (etc) and second colour...

Again within colour/opposite restricitons /[i]

And Power Warrior going wizard follows the same line as Power Master?

[i] Sort of yes.
But with all of it remember the rules on upgrading power pools.
Also this was probably a GSM, not book query



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