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> Faith of the Impossible Dream
AlanG
post Aug 14 2014, 09:00 AM
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A few Starsdays ago, myself and other members of In Purity came across some rather excited townspeople in Cradletown, who we discussing the faith of the Impossible Dream. These people said they had been visited by followers of this faith who had tried to instil them with the tenants of the faith, which were - You should be the best you can and even if you fail, you need to keep going. Just keep going, keep trying, never give up, ever. Everything is possible not matter how bleak the situation.

The townsfolk talked of a Herald of the Impossible Dream but didn't know his name at that time.

As this was a faith I hadn't heard of before, and to ensure the safety of those within Cradletown and the surrounding area, it deserved more investigation.

This is what has been discovered and its very interesting -

The faith of the Impossible Dream mean no harm to those living in Cradletown. They really just want to help people be the best they can (and then a bit more). They follow a wonderful Herald who's word inspire them to be better people and to always strive to be better people. Nothing but good things were said of this Herald and his teachings. But who was this Herald? Why had he not been seen in Cradletown?

When Cloud changed the pact between Allocka and the throne of Impossible Dreams and the resultant convergent changes at the dawn, Allokca was shattered into two potential futures, one goodly and repentant, and the other evil and full of murderous vengeance.

The Herald of the Impossible Dream is called Allockra, but he is also not the Herald too. Its difficult to explain, like there are two of them, one that is and one that isn't. Literally two distinct people with the same name, same spirit and so on. The Herald is goodly, the other one is evil. One currently is in the Highland and the other not in the Highlands. It appears his exact location is shielded, but it is likely in the far north somewhere.

Each of them have no idea the other exists, indeed to each other there is only one of them. Given that this occurred at the dawn, it is most likely that at the coming dawn perhaps only one can remain, the stronger eclipsing the weaker and the weaker winking out of existence once more.

So after the moral conflict we had when we last dealt with Allocka, it appears we have the opportunity to both allow Allocka some form of redemption and also to prevent further harm and evil from this other Allocka.

If the goodly is to survive he will need help to live his impossible dream of redemption. Therefore we should look to helping him, for he is far weaker in power and rite than that of evil (for there was such a tiny spark of potential compared to such a vast one for darkness & evil). With all the sacrifice and actions taken to free Tapestry from the old Allocka, and the hope some of us had for redemption of Allocka when others, including myself, thought he was beyond help. We now have a chance of success! A chance to see some good born from such evil! There is this one and only chance for him and we need to help!

Unfortunately given Allocka's history, the Herald is scared that Matthew or the others (more hardline) like him will just murder him regardless. The Herald is also terrified of Nydor. So if we are to give aid to this Herald Allocka, we need to tread carefully for its likely we may scare him off or into hiding and this would only aid the evil side of Allocka. Something we must to great care to avoid!

I am sure you will agree, saving that which is good about Allocka is a task worth taking on.

In Purity,

Victor Somas
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MattJ
post Aug 14 2014, 12:50 PM
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Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.

I will come and give assistance as is my duty.

Wretch
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ethuil
post Aug 14 2014, 01:52 PM
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Victor,

Thank you very much for gathering all this information.

Though I was not present for what happened with him last year, based on what you have said I think it is vital that we both seek to help the Herald and combat his, well, far less preferable form. If the Herald wishes our mercy then we must grant it - but we must also seek to protect people from the harm his other form could cause.

I would very much like to know more about his other form and what it is doing, especially if it is the more powerful of the two. I do not think this is someone we wish to allow too much time to gain power and make plans. But you are right that we do not wish to scare the Herald away, and I believe we will need to think carefully upon how we wish to approach him - I am afraid I have been too distant to offer any suggestions for this at present, but this is something I will seek to rectify.

Though I have been overjoyed to return to His side for these many months, it is now time that I return to the side of my friends.

Eliane Solmourn
Voice of Mortai


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AlanG
post Aug 15 2014, 07:29 AM
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Eliane,

I believe it maybe difficult to gain much information on this non-herald evil Allocka as he is likely to have shielded himself from such scrutiny but we mustn't give up hope.

I think it would be a massive shame if we failed to aid this herald and let the dark side continue to plague the innocent after the Final Dawn.

It is my hope that we can get members of the church, supported by those from In Purity together in Octuar so its possible we can attempt to tackle this thorny issue then.

Your company would be most welcome if you are free.

Victor.

(OOC - There is a joint Mortai/In Purity dungeon on 11/10 if anyone fancies it smile.gif )


QUOTE(ethuil @ Aug 14 2014, 02:52 PM) *
Victor,

Thank you very much for gathering all this information.

Though I was not present for what happened with him last year, based on what you have said I think it is vital that we both seek to help the Herald and combat his, well, far less preferable form. If the Herald wishes our mercy then we must grant it - but we must also seek to protect people from the harm his other form could cause.

I would very much like to know more about his other form and what it is doing, especially if it is the more powerful of the two. I do not think this is someone we wish to allow too much time to gain power and make plans. But you are right that we do not wish to scare the Herald away, and I believe we will need to think carefully upon how we wish to approach him - I am afraid I have been too distant to offer any suggestions for this at present, but this is something I will seek to rectify.

Though I have been overjoyed to return to His side for these many months, it is now time that I return to the side of my friends.

Eliane Solmourn
Voice of Mortai
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SamR
post Aug 15 2014, 04:27 PM
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It seems pretty blindingly obvious that we should attempt to slay the evil shard before this Dawn as a priority - if only one of them can exist beyond that point.

Then we can spend all the time we need having a cup of tea with the other one!

Matthew Mulberry
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Ryan
post Aug 19 2014, 02:58 PM
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I will ensure I am available to assist,

Nurturing the Goodly entity and allowing him to realise his "Dream" so he is the stronger one must be our goal, to simply kill the dark part steals any true chance of redemption or the goodly portion reaching it's potential for the future.

In Peace

Reason
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SamR
post Aug 19 2014, 04:09 PM
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Killing the dark one doesn't stop the goodly one reaching its potential - you are just twisting things - if anything killing the dark one is the only thing that absolutely guarantees the goodly one lives on.

Look, I know its not your fault and you are not capable of rational thought but have you even considered all aspects of this?

I'm sure you've got a nice warm fuzzy feeling that we didn't kill Allockra properly when we had a chance and now there's a goodly shard of him. However, more importantly there's a dark Allocka wandering around Primus somewhere full of murderous vengeance (Victor's words). What do you think he is up to at the moment? Clearly, he will already be up to no good and causing suffering, pain and death and we think that is less important than babysitting a goodly entity!

It hasn't even occured to you that we should clear up the mess thats been caused by our indecision last time. This is a classic example of the damage creatures like you can cause in the name of mercy and peace..

MM
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Ryan
post Aug 19 2014, 04:22 PM
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Killing is wrong as far as my teachings are concerned but ignoring that just destroying the evil half so the good half wins is of no use to the goodly portion.

By overcoming the adversity (something you must know all about) of his existence and completing his dream he will develop into a stronger force for good than just having redemption thrust upon him in the form of other people destroying that which it stands to gain freedom from.

It's his battle, we should assist his personal victory rather than ensuring it by robbing him of his true shot at redemption.

Reason
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MattJ
post Aug 20 2014, 11:38 AM
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Reason, you are wrong.

Destroying the Dark Shard of Allockra is a necessity for the Good Shard to survive, Victor has already explained that. Allowing the Dark Shard to live puts Allockra's redemption in to great danger. Further Allockra's dream of redemption is known as "the Impossible Dream" perhaps an indication that it's unlikely to happen. If we leave the Dark Shard to its own devices then we'll certainly see the Good Shard conquered.

Wretch

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trussedfund
post Aug 20 2014, 12:59 PM
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Despite the whispering in corners last time, I am still fully prepared to believe my friends if they tell me that the best way to proceed is to nurture the good shard. However, they better make sure they have done some proper communing and aren't just indulging their misguided naivety. Until destroying the bad is proven to me to be the wrong way to go about things I am firmly with Matthew and Teldor on this.

Tancred


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ChrisAndrews
post Aug 20 2014, 01:38 PM
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I would remind everyone of the tenets of the Faith. They are not numbered - one does not supersede the others. You cannot ignore them when it is easier to do so.

QUOTE
Do everything within your power to put an undead back on its original plane of existence and to cease any suffering caused by these creatures.
Always grant mercy to those who ask it.
Do not harm a living thing unless to defend another.
Do not take a life without first doing anything else in your power to prevent such happening.


I have read Lord Somas' message slightly differently it seems, and am scrying to confirm my interpretation. I would add in the mean time that 'Combat' does not mean Kill. Neither does Oppose, challenge or weaken. Killing him is the easy option but that does not mean it's the Right option.

Samuel
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MattJ
post Aug 20 2014, 03:10 PM
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Samuel,

When Lithmore originally laid down the dictates of the modern Church of Mortai he directed that those who raise undead are the exception to the rule that we shouldn't harm any living thing, in fact his directive was that any priest should deal with necromancers as they see fit. You may see fit to attempt to save them, others may see fit to destroy them.

Wretch
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Ryan
post Aug 20 2014, 03:23 PM
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Do you know without doubt Allockra in his current form is a Nexromancer? If judging the evil portion on his past existence you will judging the goodly portion on the same account?!

Reason
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MattJ
post Aug 20 2014, 04:10 PM
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Reason, what past existence are you talking about? This is the continuation of his existence, he hasn't turned on the wheel. I have no doubt in my mind that Allockra is a necromancer. I have no idea whether the goodly portion is as well, we should of course ask him.

Wretch
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AlanG
post Oct 7 2014, 06:01 AM
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QUOTE(SamR @ Aug 15 2014, 05:27 PM) *
It seems pretty blindingly obvious that we should attempt to slay the evil shard before this Dawn as a priority - if only one of them can exist beyond that point.

Then we can spend all the time we need having a cup of tea with the other one!

Matthew Mulberry



I have listened with both interest and concern at your words and reasoning around what course of action we should be taking when dealing with Allockra and decided to seek more information about the two aspects/sides of Allockra.

As a group, we seem to be split as to what action we should be taking, some wanting to prevent the 'evil Allockra causing more harm and others seeking to enhance or strengthen the 'goodly' aspect of Allockra. Whilst to some extent, I can understand both arguments, killing the evil Allockra should not be done without ensuring there is no harmful after effects.

With that in mind I have discovered the following -

Neither Allockra knows anything about the other. To each other they simply don't exist. One cannot perceive or know of the other, though they are intrinsically linked. Looking for 'the other' would simply find them looking at themselves. For them the assertion of primal reality that there can be "only one" is simply too strong/paramount. So if we were to focus our actions into strengthening/aiding the currently weaker goodly aspect of Allockra, the other evil side would not be aware of the other getting stronger.

As people have spoken forcefully about killing the evil side of Allockra, if that were to happen before the goodly Allockra was sufficiently strong enough, the 'echo' of the death of the other could seriously harm/kill them. If the goodly Allockra were strong enough to resist it then would be unpleasant but there would be no lasting damage. At present goodly Allockra isn't strong enough to survive the backlash of the death of evil Allockra, but it is certainly within our power to ensure he is, either via rite, action, empowering him/impossible dreams or other thoughtful plan.

So all our hard work and sacrifice given in dealing with Allockra and the chance for some good to come out of the whole situation would likely be wasted/lost if we were to just kill the evil Allockra. For all the evil and destruction caused by Allockra, wouldn't it be amazing if the redeemed Allockra and faith of the Impossible Dream were given the chance to spread happiness and good?

You may ask what is goodly Allockra doing to seek redemption? How is he hoping to strengthen Faith of Impossible Dream?

Well, he is trying to help people achieve their dreams. However he is wracked by self doubt, fear and self-loathing. Manifest 'entities' of negative emotion are appearing around him and attacking him. He has thus hidden himself away from the local people so as to protect them. Goodly Allockra has a wishing well/altar which gathers dreams from people as they sleep or simply as letters they drop within/wishes they make nearby. He is trying to find ways to fulfil some of the dreams of those people; notably the ones that those people believe are impossible (even if they aren't in reality - the matter of individual perspective is important here). This well/altar is near a small hamlet south of where his old manor used to be in the Highlands.

We should discover the location of this shrine and so if there is anything we can do to strengthen the faith of the Impossible Dream or Allockra himself. Perhaps if dreams or wishes/letters dropped into the well help, then we should see if a dream or letter from one or all of us would help with Allockra's redemption, as who among us would have believed there is a chance of Allockra finding or choosing to redeem himself? I know there were some, but the large majority, myself included, did not think there was the slightest chance of a successfully redeeming Allockra making every effort to make amends.

These emotions are manifesting and I believe it is something to do with the transition between Allockra's necromantic immortal form and living mortal form, when he and Tapestry were brought back to life by Nieliqui's Gift.

Research has uncovered that before Allockra took the Tapestry and became an undead, he performed a horrific rite on himself to sever his heart from his chest and in so doing rid himself of needless emotions; removing him of the compassion & feelings that would have prevented him doing the things he did to 'claim' Tapestry, kill Nieliqui and torment Illenqui (Rachel). Before that time and the judgement of the Laiu, he wasn't exactly a good man, but he wasn't the monster he became. Allockra was a fearful man who clung to power and was terrified of being banished, imprisoned or exiled. This fear led him along the route he took to sever his heart and his emotions and become the revenant he ended up as.

However, our actions have lead to Allockra being alive again with his heart and emotions now linked and strong, yet the rites layered around his ancient heart still exist. These are attempting to strip his emotions from him, but can't in the same way as before and as such are causing them to manifest and seek to destroy that which is causing emotion in him, Allockra himself.

Where the heart is must be shielded, as its location is not know. I only really manage to work out its existence because I was there when Allockra and Tapestry were separated and because of what happened surrounding that. Given the nature of the rite we used to separate Allockra and Tapestry, I think that whatever happened when his heart was taken probably involved the sacrifice or deaths of at least one important person and Tapestry might have witnessed who and that might then provide some leads as to its location. Certainly resolving that (destroying it most likely) would hugely help Allockra.

Evil Allockra is plagued the same way, though he is generally being assailed by positive emotions, which he is trapping in ritual mirrors/foci then using to empower rites around him to make people nearby to thinking positive things about him. This maybe lead to people around him, seeking to protect him in a similar way to someone under a Befriend or Beguile miracle.

Thus resolving the heart would broadly be good in both scenarios.

Sources point to the evil Alockra being in the far north somewhere, to the north of where Anthuinn was felled by the Folly of Man some years ago, beyond the mountains of King Sigurd's range into the tribes of the wild unknown. Those who follow Creduin are the most likely to know of places of significant that far north where the land is so much larger than one could map, both physically and meta-physically. We could walk through the rolling hills, hidden valleys, rushing streams and mountain peaks for our entire life never reaching the end or the sea. It is a place of folk lore, tale & tribes, bubbled through with 'nacht, pockets of reality shifting and moving, whole civilisations lost and forgotten for hundreds of years.

So I believe we should look to strengthen the goodly Allockra before any action is taken against the dark side, and when we know we have sufficiently strengthen the light to avoid any harmful after effect, people can take whatever action they believe should be taken.

To do this, we need to speak to Tapestry about who may have been sacrificed/involved in the rite, Allockra used to sever his heart, as this may lead to the discovery what happened to his heart or its location. If possible, we then need to deal with rite.

We could strengthen the faith of the Impossible Dream, perhaps by dreaming about the goodly Allockra's redemption, speaking with him or perhaps performing some rite.

After that and if we have significantly strengthen goodly Allockra, ask the Creduin for advice as to finding the dark side of Allockra.

Of course, if others know more or wish to take some other course of action, please state so.

In purity,

Victor Somas


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ethuil
post Oct 7 2014, 08:16 AM
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Thank you, Victor. Provided that a delay in reaching the version of Allockra in the far north does not result in a loss of life - and from what you've said I get the impression that there would not be - your plan sounds wise. I would strongly advise following it.

I regret however that I will not be able to assist you after all, as He requires my presence elsewhere. Be safe, all of you, and look after each other.

Eliane


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dnsmantra
post Oct 7 2014, 09:50 AM
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(OOC: For OOC Clarity, I am writing so you can both strengthen goodly/attack evil in whatever order you choose & there should be time to do both unless you decide to spent a lot more time on goodly stuff/other cunning plans (I am totally open to coming up with a cunning plan or similar though letting me have an idea in advance would be ace; no worries if not, we can manage on the day too). I am currently assuming you are doing strengthen goodly first - Huw).
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Ryan
post Oct 7 2014, 10:15 AM
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I have performed my own investigations as this has to be done absolutely correctly in my belief.

The Evil portion of Allockra is too powerful right now and weakening him in some way is the only way for the Good portion to exist. This does not mean killing him and in fact if we leave a weakened Evil portion in place and a stronger goodly portion at the dawn then they will transition into one redeemed entity with no further trauma caused to the good portion - the evil will simply fade from existence. As I said before killing is an option but it is the easy way out and we are better than that.

I have some ideas I am further pondering but short of a really out there plan it will be challenging - that doesn't make it impossible so I'd ask you all to spend a little time thinking how the power of the dark portion can be crippled not killed or in fact transferred (the power would need to be cleansed first as the Evil deeds which gave it power would simply taint the good portion if it couldn't be cleansed).

These are just my thoughts, I am sure Matthew has an opinion.

In Peace

Reason
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AlanG
post Oct 7 2014, 12:19 PM
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(OOC - Given the ethos of the Church and fact we gave Allockra an opportunity to redeem himself, which some agreed to and others didn't, I'd prefer for us to focus on strengthen the goodly side as much as possible so if others wish to seek and kill dark side the fallout is greatly lessened ph34r.gif Sam ph34r.gif But I also don't think we should let the evil Allockra have the chance to regain strength or opportunity to cause harm/kill others. Definitely looking to strengthen goodly first and deal with heart issue. I know this might not be to everyone's liking but I am sure others will be able to influence/kil evil allockra if they are that determined smile.gif )


QUOTE(dnsmantra @ Oct 7 2014, 10:50 AM) *
(OOC: For OOC Clarity, I am writing so you can both strengthen goodly/attack evil in whatever order you choose & there should be time to do both unless you decide to spent a lot more time on goodly stuff/other cunning plans (I am totally open to coming up with a cunning plan or similar though letting me have an idea in advance would be ace; no worries if not, we can manage on the day too). I am currently assuming you are doing strengthen goodly first - Huw).

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AlanG
post Oct 7 2014, 12:55 PM
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As is clear from the internal conflict we suffered when discussing allowing Allockra the chance to redeem himself, we are somewhat divided as a group as to how to deal with these two sides of Allockra.

At this moment, purely focusing on the evil dark side of Allockra and attempting to kill him would be both foolhardy and a waste of our previous efforts and would result in the traumatic death of the other side. This would destroy any opportunity for the light to succeed and be a powerful ally/tool for the greater good. And who knows what else could happen given the nature of Allockra and the many rites he has cast upon himself or those bound to him.

Not that I am suggesting any of us who do so, but killing the goodly side would have next to no influence on evil Allockra and could just empower him more.

I have suffered as much as most at the hands of Allockra, having seen him kill and torture my friends and allies. Allockra was the one who struck the final blow that permanently slew my last form. But given the opportunity, I wish to see if there is any chance the goodly form of Allockra can be redeemed or strengthen to such a degree, at Final Dawn, only he remained.

What happens to the dark side of Allockra after this has been done, I leave you each to your own thoughts and choices, but he cannot be left to his own devices as I dread to think what harm such a creature could cause on those around him. He has to be imprisoned, drained of power or incapacitated in some way. Leaving the dark side alone, without taking some form of action, would be wrong.

We gain nothing from just slaying the evil Allockra but many may benefit from our joint efforts successfully seeing a new and goodly Allockra redeemed.

I believe the heart is key and we must deal with that regardless of our individual thoughts on the evil Allockra.

I have seen that when greatly divided, things can go badly wrong or information lost as this happened recently in Ishma whilst tackling the Cult of the Dark Phoenix. Whilst everyone has differing opinions and views, remember we all seek the same outcome - the removal of the evilness of Allockra and I hope the majority would also seek to see a redeemed form of Allockra too.

In Purity,

Victor Somas.





QUOTE(Ryan @ Oct 7 2014, 11:15 AM) *
I have performed my own investigations as this has to be done absolutely correctly in my belief.

The Evil portion of Allockra is too powerful right now and weakening him in some way is the only way for the Good portion to exist. This does not mean killing him and in fact if we leave a weakened Evil portion in place and a stronger goodly portion at the dawn then they will transition into one redeemed entity with no further trauma caused to the good portion - the evil will simply fade from existence. As I said before killing is an option but it is the easy way out and we are better than that.

I have some ideas I am further pondering but short of a really out there plan it will be challenging - that doesn't make it impossible so I'd ask you all to spend a little time thinking how the power of the dark portion can be crippled not killed or in fact transferred (the power would need to be cleansed first as the Evil deeds which gave it power would simply taint the good portion if it couldn't be cleansed).

These are just my thoughts, I am sure Matthew has an opinion.

In Peace

Reason

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