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> Should all mercenaries get immortal for free?, Because they are unkillable..
Labyman
post Jun 27 2017, 11:07 AM
Post #41


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The big rebirths that have come out recently are 10k characters anyhow. I don't see a issues with them. It's just like a loyalty card. If you spend loads of money in boots you get loads of points, same as with BA they reward you for being a loyal customer. Non standard rebirths/survival is just a reward scheme for being a good customer.

In regards to dying I think yeah the only issue is you can have any res restriction and now days there is always someone that can res you. But that's because people have invested in helping others and reading their mates? So what's the issue it's nice people want to help other players get back up and play


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Ryan
post Jun 27 2017, 11:21 AM
Post #42


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QUOTE(Labyman @ Jun 27 2017, 12:07 PM) *
The big rebirths that have come out recently are 10k characters anyhow. I don't see a issues with them. It's just like a loyalty card. If you spend loads of money in boots you get loads of points, same as with BA they reward you for being a loyal customer. Non standard rebirths/survival is just a reward scheme for being a good customer.



As much as it pains me to say it I am largely on board with this.
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DaveR
post Jun 27 2017, 02:22 PM
Post #43


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Flipping the issue on its head...

Maybe reward people for living ?

Say have a bonus table for people at, say 1k, and 3k, with tiered abilities ...

eg. 1k, needs 100% - can buy XXXX, min 70% can buy YYY, etc.

Obviously exclude Blue Cards from this table ( a because they'll likely rebirth with higher points, and b - they have a ns rebirth as snacky stuff)

This would mean ref's needing to be a bit more strict with variable points - just so it's a bit harder to get to the reward table without risking yourself ...

Needs a bit of work*, but the idea's there .... doesn't make death any bigger - but does make living a bit of an achievement ...


Dave
*okay probably more than a bit ... but food for thought


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Hampton
post Jun 27 2017, 03:01 PM
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What about no snacky rebirths, Just standard rebirth with what ever % of points. but ISP's are spent on Items. like Viking being burned with all their riches etc.
when you wake up in Valhalla you have everything you need for your next life, pPocket full of Grulls, Suit or Armour or a Magic Sword and an item of 9/3 life.

its a thought






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duncanmatthias
post Jun 27 2017, 03:08 PM
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What about an ability cheaply priced on each table 8,9,10,11 and 12 that can only be bought by standard non-rebirth characters.

D
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Nibs
post Jun 27 2017, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Jun 27 2017, 04:08 PM) *
What about an ability cheaply priced on each table 8,9,10,11 and 12 that can only be bought by standard non-rebirth characters.

D

Possibly 1st lifers and non-non-standard rebirths? So 1st lifers and people who opted not to have a snacky rebirth?


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MattJ
post Jun 27 2017, 04:12 PM
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I'm loving the term "First Lifer".
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JackFlashblade
post Jun 27 2017, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Jun 27 2017, 04:08 PM) *
What about an ability cheaply priced on each table 8,9,10,11 and 12 that can only be bought by standard non-rebirth characters.

D


I like this.

C
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BBB
post Jun 27 2017, 06:14 PM
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QUOTE(DaveR @ Jun 27 2017, 03:22 PM) *
Flipping the issue on its head...

Maybe reward people for living ?

Say have a bonus table for people at, say 1k, and 3k, with tiered abilities ...

eg. 1k, needs 100% - can buy XXXX, min 70% can buy YYY, etc.

Obviously exclude Blue Cards from this table ( a because they'll likely rebirth with higher points, and b - they have a ns rebirth as snacky stuff)

This would mean ref's needing to be a bit more strict with variable points - just so it's a bit harder to get to the reward table without risking yourself ...

Needs a bit of work*, but the idea's there .... doesn't make death any bigger - but does make living a bit of an achievement ...
Dave
*okay probably more than a bit ... but food for thought


Probably Overly complicated and pretty much flies in the face of Rebirths being used to encourage people not to care about dying / perm dying....

BBB


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Benson
post Jun 27 2017, 08:05 PM
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on the subject of making death mean more.. how about penalising death? (without having to lay on the floor for 3 hours?)

I don't know what?
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miles
post Jun 27 2017, 08:12 PM
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All rebirths over 20ISP come with a traditional BBB spend, that should put people off taking them smile.gif

Miles


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Abel
post Jun 27 2017, 08:17 PM
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Ooooooor, and I know this is radical thinking, perhaps just not worry about non-standards and have fun with the game, after all this is a team game, 9/10 times people work together.

Why can't people have something a little unsual or, god forbid, "tough" to play.

Death is as it is in life pretty much, if you come to know someone well and care for them, when they pass, it affects you, especially if you are there when they go. If you don't know them, you are likely to not really care. pretty much as it is in RL™ except that most of the time they come back, a little less experienced and maybe a little tougher, having learnt from the last time.

Honestly, the rebirth factor of this thread feels a little like green eyed monster. Sure some have a nice one, some don't. but in my experience with people I enjoy spending time with at the caves, you get something like that, they congratulate you and while maybe being a little envious, they are mostly happy for the recipient. And frankly if you get "annoyed" by someone having something you don't, you need to rethink your outlook and remember, this is a game.


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Seth/800 Blades - 8519 - Pure Priest/Budoka/White Wizard
Kazan Toshimoko - 6550 Council Yojimbo
Dipp - 3060 Awakener (Comms based)
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Druzil - 1149 Kharmic Sidhe Artificer
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Lt Benjamin Ford - Nightsoil Grey Knight
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Abel - RIP (21/08/15)
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Stuart
post Jun 27 2017, 08:26 PM
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Having done it once, I heartily recommend perm death surrounded by your IC friends. Still one of the top five memories of my caves career.

Stuart
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FlorenceWarren
post Jun 27 2017, 08:45 PM
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So, back when I first started LARPing, you know, back at Spearhead, death was a big deal. Well, sort of. It was a big deal because it was permanent. You didn't have any rebirth or "we can get back up in 10 minutes" style dealies, if you were dead, you were just that, dead. New character, new kit, new everything. In that regard it was really expensive and a big hassle, I remember anytime I went on a 3-day, you'd have to bring two sets of entirely different costume, just in case you died on the first night. I mean it was that or switch to crew. Anyway!

Some death was a big deal, I remember one of the faction leaders died and people were devastated, it was a massive thing and people organised a funeral pyre and it created a huge amount of roleplay. On the other hand I saw many deaths that weren't a big deal, people who's characters were lesser known or not as important, so no one really gave a [----]. I always thought it was a bit of a cop out. Much like Jules has said, as it goes in "Real Life" people will only be upset if they genuinely knew the character and they'd been around long enough to make an impact.

In my four years at Spearhead, being clumsy, new to LARP in general and having basically no situational awareness, I got through more characters than anyone else. None of those deaths was ever a big deal to anyone but me, because I was basically a n00b and my characters never lasted more than a few weeks.

When I first read the Laby rulebook and when I first learned about Rebirth, I was ecstatic. Finally, a system were I wouldn't be repeatedly penalised for making silly mistakes, but actually having the chance to learn, to improve and to keep going. I actually think that Rebirth in itself is one of Labyrinthe's strongest assets. I think it should be sold more on it. Come here! Be terrible! Walk through wardings and fail horribly! It doesn't matter, we won't judge you (much) and you can try again.

In my opinion (and it is only my opinion, so please don't take offence) Rebirth is awesome, snacky rewards are fun and probably not that unbalancing (I trust in Lee) and yeah, let's all just carry on with it :-)

Flo


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"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die." - H.P Lovecraft

Florence
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Taris - Anti-Elf Causing priest.
Vex - Ratfolk Scout.
Rye - Elysian Pure Priest.
Fester - Ratfolk "Warrior" Assassin.
Charlie - Ratfolk Shaehan Priest.

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NickBurne
post Jul 7 2017, 01:45 PM
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I mulled over the idea of perhaps having a year of no non-standard abilities, no non-standard rebirths and everyone starts at 1st.

I have to admit I enjoy 'ironman' style games, it does make things mean something.

With all the new changes / books available, then you can look at the system objectively.

I don't think money should come into it, everyone invests, costume and kit can be diluted in time to other characters.

If you die on dungeon and you can't be ressed, then a ref should allow a player to rejoin the dungeon with a new character.

I think most adventures would allow for the party coming across a prisoner or unconscious adventurer that could join the party.

- Nick
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Jorven
post Jul 7 2017, 10:59 PM
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My two cents, as a complete scrub and someone who is largely unfamiliar with the endgame of Laby.

#1 - I would personally disagree with forcing new characters with new names JUST because, I love a good story. On some 10-hour dungeons (no offence to those who organize them, they are still fun!) you don't get the opportunity to roleplay particularly much because either people are there to flaunt their stuff, or power through the dungeon and dash home before the footie starts, or simply to get points for bigger games later. Or the monsters are mostly just waves of angry weapons intent on murdering someone who might well deserve it (or, for fairness, the party continue provoking monsters that would otherwise roleplay, meaning you only get to see fighting rather than talking).

As a result you can die and lose rez chance quite quickly especially if you end up on dungeons where people party kill you because that's just what they do, there's no reason behind it, ahem. Which is fine, go for it, if that makes you happy. tongue.gif

My point being, I for one (and I am sure there must be at least one other person out there who feels this way) really very much prefer the times when you get to have a bit of break, roleplay with some people, get to know them + chat a lot, talk about background or future plans and so on. This amount of investment in a story and roleplay would be really hard to see the point of, if you knew that there's a dead end that will erase everything you've put into the character - you could argue yeah, okay, that's the same as for real life, but let's be honest the lifespan of a Laby character (unless you're a hardcase) can be measured in months as oppose to 50+ years.

I'm not overly bothered about being able to do absolutely everything under the sun, they're just stats. I'm here to RP. I enjoy the 8th and <1500 games. Others feel different I am sure!


#2 - Some rebirths are really really hard, but as Sonny said... These are people who have put a lot into the system and I can't fault that. It's a game we all want to see continue and it relies on the support of loyal customers - yes, it's quite painful when your character is completely eclipsed in every single way by another person and you have literally no niche to fit in so you're just a weaker beatstick with a weird accent (by the way, this is 100% me on most dungeons so I'm in that boat with anyone else who feels that way and I have definitely had a lot of depressing adventures where I feel useless)... But ultimately at least you get to LARP at all? And maybe one day you'll end up there too, being your character that you love, but slightly tougher with some extra ways to contribute. This is development I look forward to, as I learn more from other mercenaries and become stronger.

- All of this said, my personal feeling is that more 'basic' rebirths are much more fun to play... Like, with tiny buffs here and there that compliment the intent and concept behind a character rather than being statted for epicness. (like, my spartan-ranger-concept who came back with 'rockskin' plate greaves + enhanced distancing and that was it. Had to stack DAC since the concept required light armour everywhere else but it was more forgiving to play as a warrior with a realistic and mobile fighting style able to shrug off tedious 'shovel-digging' or 'cuddling' from care-free wave monsters.)


#3 - In terms of it being really easy to rebirth... I dunno, as a brief calculation - from 8th to 3000pts you'd have to play roughly 25 games, that includes signed-on monster points. It's at 3000pts when you really start to see some better rebirths but even then it's pretty balanced. (And incidentally that's £1200 per person going towards keeping Laby running). It's a long time to play before you can even begin to consider hurling yourself screaming through the gates of Blue Heaven... on purpose.

You'll probably die at least 3 times between tables 1 - 9. Feel free to argue this point though because I'm quite un-good at staying alive.

If you get left behind on an adventure you lose 20% of your rez chance, which means you can only get left behind 5 times, this is pretty fair considering even if someone is your best mate in real life their character can be an enormous douchebag, and some people frankly don't give a toss so they'll happily abandon you.

Wouldn't be nice to lose something you've invested time and emotion into really, just because of a lack of effort on someone else's part. At least there's a still a definite penalty for ending up in a crappy situation.


This is all just from the perspective of a relatively new player though, just throwing it out there!

Also I apologise that I don't have any constructive suggestions to offer, I wouldn't know where to begin and not experienced enough to understand what might make it better, I enjoy what there is currently.
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