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> Being a Baron, it's another Baronies question(s) from yours truly
JossDixon
post Mar 6 2011, 10:13 PM
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Hello again,

Reading in the DotC, it says that a Baron is a "Title applied to anyone who can take and hold land and swears obedience to a graf".

How exactly do you go about "taking and holding land"? I'm assuming it's something to do with HotE, but even then how do you do that in HotE?
If as part of my character's background is that he comes from area XYZ do I need to find out about if there is a baron in that region?
If not can I say that I am?
On average, how big is "one Barony"?

Much help needed wacko.gif My thanks go with it.


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Pants
post Mar 6 2011, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE(JossDixon @ Mar 6 2011, 10:13 PM) *
Hello again,

Reading in the DotC, it says that a Baron is a "Title applied to anyone who can take and hold land and swears obedience to a graf".

How exactly do you go about "taking and holding land"? I'm assuming it's something to do with HotE, but even then how do you do that in HotE?
If as part of my character's background is that he comes from area XYZ do I need to find out about if there is a baron in that region?
If not can I say that I am?
On average, how big is "one Barony"?

Much help needed wacko.gif My thanks go with it.


Well everyone has normally gone down the HotE route though I think an LRP campaign and the Jan system would also work.

so you have the Waldgrafine and within these will be a number of baronies. They are not fixed just like in europe it was not fixes. You dont really need to know the barons as there could be a 100 or more in anyone Waldgrafine.

I have a barony in Wallostovia which is little more than a big castle one town and some villages. I then amd making it bigger and better through HotE and LRP.

You could go down the LRP route.

Feel free to email me direct.


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Craigus17
post Mar 6 2011, 10:52 PM
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I hope this is for Willem and not Blaugrau lol cos that may end in tears


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BBB
post Mar 6 2011, 10:53 PM
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I presume that you are thinking a Southern Baronies Barony rather than an Imperial Barony?

In either case currently the easiest route is the Heroes Route.

If you wanted to go purely the LRP route then you'd probably best looking at the Southern Baronies where Baronies are spoils of war as it were rather than spoils of politics and wealth and it would no doubt involve a campaign to build up the requisite CPs to get where you wished to be.

If you wanted an Imperial Baron title without being directly involved in Heroes then easiest method is to become part of one of the Major Houses in heroes with the wealth and political clout to secure Baronies. The House Lord, if willing, would pass on Barony with the title to your care. You would of course be expected to repay the house Lord in some manner.

Either by tending to the land in Heroes, wich increases its value and worth to the House or by arranging dungeons to deal with matters on the land or just to strengthen the political position of the House to which you are aligned. House Majius and House Winterhaven seem to have gone down that route with a fair degree of success.

Its not neccessary to be direclty involved in heroes to get a Barony but its far far easier to have a sponsor as it were to do the heroes work for you and then you reciprocate by doing dungeons to resolve heroes base stuff for them that is best resolved by turning up with a party willing to beat it into submission.

BBB


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BBB
post Mar 6 2011, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE(Pants @ Mar 6 2011, 10:22 PM) *
Well everyone has normally gone down the HotE route though I think an LRP campaign and the Jan system would also work.

...

You could go down the LRP route.

Feel free to email me direct.


My experience is that that is difficult and I speak as a referee with a pretty extensive knowledge of heroes trying to arrange such through CPs.

BBB


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giles
post Mar 6 2011, 11:17 PM
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No reason why you could not organise a closed dungeon with a group of likeminded characters to take and hold a Barony.

You'd probably want to build up some resources - so have a few thousand grulls under your belt (some peoplemight want paying).

Then approach a referee who could approach Jan to work out a CP contract - for what you were aiming to do. It might take several dungeons.

Things you might like to bear in mind - if this is for your Baronial Hermit Priest - if he is a member of the Circle then they aren't officially allowed to hold any temporal power (the title of Baron is right out). Not to say you might not want to try anyway - but it's going to be pretty tricky.

If the Hermit priest is Hedge, well that will create its own set of challenges.

It's something you could do in LRP - IC it's worth gathering some like minded fellow mercenaries, getting some funds together, OOC - look for a ref and outline what you're trying to do/achieve.

Giles.
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JossDixon
post Mar 7 2011, 07:59 AM
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Firstly, yes it is for Willem, my Baronial Priest.

Secondly is Jan's CP system set aside from Heroes? Because that seems to be the way it works.

Also my priest is Circle and not Hedge - Giles I'm not too sure I understand what you mean, are Circle members not allowed to be Barons, Grafs etc.?


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Sizel
post Mar 7 2011, 09:15 AM
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QUOTE(JossDixon @ Mar 7 2011, 07:59 AM) *
Giles I'm not too sure I understand what you mean, are Circle members not allowed to be Barons, Grafs etc.?


Nope, they are not.
Very specifically members of the Circle can not rule over lands or people.
It's part of the Circle's ethos...
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Godseed
post Mar 7 2011, 10:00 AM
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QUOTE(JossDixon @ Mar 7 2011, 07:59 AM) *
Secondly is Jan's CP system set aside from Heroes? Because that seems to be the way it works.

Also my priest is Circle and not Hedge - Giles I'm not too sure I understand what you mean, are Circle members not allowed to be Barons, Grafs etc.?

The CP system is independent of Heroes, yep. (Although there can be interaction between the two.)

Also, per DotC p9 (an extract from the Circle Edicts): "Those of power shall not involve themselves in the acquisition of worldly dominance. They shall not be exalted over others, they shall hold no material positions of influence."

(The term "temporal" is used in distinction from "spiritual" to refer to secular offices - as in the Lords Temporal and Lords Spiritual in the UK House of Lords. "Lord Temporal" does not, as I once thought, have anything to do with Doctor Who.)


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Pants
post Mar 7 2011, 10:37 AM
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QUOTE(JossDixon @ Mar 7 2011, 07:59 AM) *
Firstly, yes it is for Willem, my Baronial Priest.

Secondly is Jan's CP system set aside from Heroes? Because that seems to be the way it works.

Also my priest is Circle and not Hedge - Giles I'm not too sure I understand what you mean, are Circle members not allowed to be Barons, Grafs etc.?


I would say that the Jan CP system works alongside HotE and is the mechanics through which people can influence the campaign world which is both HotE and LRP.


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BBB
post Mar 7 2011, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE(JossDixon @ Mar 7 2011, 07:59 AM) *
Firstly, yes it is for Willem, my Baronial Priest.

Secondly is Jan's CP system set aside from Heroes? Because that seems to be the way it works.

Also my priest is Circle and not Hedge - Giles I'm not too sure I understand what you mean, are Circle members not allowed to be Barons, Grafs etc.?


Jan's CP system is a dual system: Each CP has dual purpose. So each CP can be used to affect LRP and generate a corresponding Heroes effect. So its not set aside as it were.

Currently there are no set LRP CP spends that allow claiming of titles, that is a Heroes thing. Titles are very nice but have virtually zero benefit in LRP*.

Hopefully as things evolve some way of acquiring basic titles might be possible but at the moment its not a standard CP option and would require an agreed CP Contract through Jan.

Circle are theoretically merely advisors on matters supernatural (although they carry far more weight than that) and are supposedly not permitted to meddle in affairs of rulership (the Barons). Of course, people with superantural ability naturally have an undefined influence in Baronial society but to blatantly take up a Baronial position would be a step too far and against the Accords by which all users of power are supposed to join together to form The Circle.

Both History and Fantasy is littered with advisors who proved themselves very powerful and skilled leaders so long as they remained in the shadows. And History and Fantasty has also sometimes recorded the fate of those who got too big for their boots and stepped into the light as being unpleasant...

BBB

*The one published exception I can think of being the Noble Rank ability that grants immunity to certain dominatoin effects when your full name and title is not used by those issuing the commands and that involves getting caught in what is mainly a points tax of the Noble Statuses.


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Jasper
post Mar 7 2011, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE(BBB @ Mar 7 2011, 01:27 PM) *
Titles are very nice but have virtually zero benefit in LRP*.


Interesting that you can't see the benefit of social status in an LRP setting...

blink.gif

J


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DanM
post Mar 7 2011, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE(Jasper @ Mar 7 2011, 01:55 PM) *
Interesting that you can't see the benefit of social status in an LRP setting...

blink.gif

J


You can, its just generally ignored by monsters. "Im xxxxx", "REALLY, BOG OFF".


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BBB
post Mar 7 2011, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE(Jasper @ Mar 7 2011, 01:55 PM) *
Interesting that you can't see the benefit of social status in an LRP setting...

blink.gif

J


Well, they pretty much only seem to be relevant to other people with titles...

The average dungeon does not cater much to getting mileage out of such status (which is generally fair as typically its not something you pay points for).

Some individual characters might act with suitable deference and the occasional monster following a nod from the ref but typically, it ain't going to get you too far smile.gif

BBB


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JossDixon
post Mar 7 2011, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE(Godseed @ Mar 7 2011, 10:00 AM) *
Also, per DotC p9 (an extract from the Circle Edicts): "Those of power shall not involve themselves in the acquisition of worldly dominance. They shall not be exalted over others, they shall hold no material positions of influence."


Ah, methinks I need to trawl through my DotC book more carefully tongue.gif


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Rob
post Mar 7 2011, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE(JossDixon @ Mar 7 2011, 04:35 PM) *
Ah, methinks I need to trawl through my DotC book more carefully tongue.gif



Saying that of course having no material power, whispering in the ear of the Baron who DOES have the power is totally acceptable (and in fact encouraged by The Circle) Especially if said Baron knows you can flay him with a glance or "expose him" as a hedge / Fai lover and have him hung, drawn and quartered without question......

Rob


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BBB
post Mar 7 2011, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE(Rob @ Mar 7 2011, 07:05 PM) *
Saying that of course having no material power, whispering in the ear of the Baron who DOES have the power is totally acceptable (and in fact encouraged by The Circle) Especially if said Baron knows you can flay him with a glance or "expose him" as a hedge / Fai lover and have him hung, drawn and quartered without question......

Rob


I thought I'd covered that with the rule from the shadow's bit wink.gif

BBB


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Godseed
post Mar 8 2011, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE(BBB @ Mar 7 2011, 07:12 PM) *
rule from the shadow's

Where are those Elberethian grammar fascists when I need them... tongue.gif


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evilwizard
post Mar 8 2011, 01:09 PM
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I don't see why you have to even do a closed dungeon or campaign tbh, for a Baronial baron title.

If your a 3K warrior or what ever you not really going to have much trouble killing a dozen or more level 5 warriors which as I recall are the generic starting stat for a wall spear.

I'd just role play it as you increase in level and points, assuming anyone wants to listen to your characters history/back story.

Then you could always talk more to the brief / Hiring NPCs on any dungeon you do asking for favours/political sway or materials and get some CP's assigned to you if you don't wish to do the full heroes route (which I don't think you need to have to do to claim the title)

I assume then the CP's would get you mentioned on the threats/Influences tables that are published.

Neil


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Jasper
post Mar 8 2011, 01:18 PM
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/agree with Neil.


J


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