Warrior Immunities by table, What do you reckon? Options

[Gordon]

So for me even as a warrior or warrior subclass it depends on what the character is.

If I want to kill Demons then ½ Rd, ½ Black, See through Supernatural Darkness are likely up there early

If anti-undead focused then Paralysis, Freeze, Level Drain & Disease

Do I fight with Forearm Parry then Foul Touch and potentially Innate Pack versus Druidic Causing

Can I mitigate the need for blanket immunities, can I drink Hyperaction, Purgative, Mystic Honey, AV’s. Can I cast / use Spirit Shield, Spirit Invis, Cure Disease etc. Do I have MAC or Shield/Plate S innates that mean ½ fx elements can be deferred.

1st Class Warriors and Warrior Subclasses and the most numerous of any bracket among the characters I possess Ech one is very different and among all of those I probably have only 1 plain Human Warrior that would be a simple immunities build.

Right now if I was doing a 1500 sword and board spend I would take:

Min:
ToD x1
9th Level Resistances
Paralysis
Freeze

Beyond that as a consideration would be:

Causing x1
Fortitude
Foul Touch

[Dave]

Solider AC18 immune triple
Hyperactions
Lots of potions.
Have a friendly mate for a plate

[DanM]

I spend very few points on immunities as any character, as they are really boring

Take away immunities and make them resistances, then they are basically optional for everyone

[BBB]

This has always been something that's bugged me.

There seems to be the concept of a must have list - where if you don't have the resistances on it & get caught out everyone has a laugh at you in the Bickley. The trouble is, as this thread proves, what people consider to be a must have varies greatly by ref. if you add up everyone's 'you're an idiot not to have this' lists then it turns into a huge chunk of points.

Julian

There is a must Have list and its basically along the lines of

Firstly: Anything that can perm kill you (e.g. ToD and Level Drain when it used to work that way)
Secondly: Anything that just kills you
Thirdly: Anything that does more than half your life in one hit because two of them are probably doing to kill you if you run into something doing them in E...

Everything else is personal flavour with Stopping Effects high up the list to avoid embarrassment but that need is based on how much AC and Damage Reductions you lose if you can't move / react to the blows

BBB

[BBB]

So somewhere between a third and a half of your points should be spent on immunities.

Second question - is that how it should be? Isn’t the strength of the Labyrinthe system that one warrior isn’t a carbon copy of another. Should we change our expectations while reffing to free up characters to be more interesting? Or is this just the way it is / it’s fine as it is / anything else would be worse?

Stuart

I think it depends on how you want to play that particular type of Warrior.

You if I recall correctly have a big selection of very different warrior types, I'm guessing they've gone for a smattering of "standard" immunities and the rest by theme.

BBB

[Netheril]

Another relevant consideration to this discussion, why are items twice as expensive for tables immunities as tables abilities?

Personally as a ref I'd like to set immunities more. Makes sense thematically based off things that have happened on dungeon. And given how immunity heavy the system is, think would make sense for the cost of these to be reduced to the same as abilities. And think people would value items with immunities in a bit more for the exact reason that it allows them to spend points on more fun stuff. So likely to try and make such items DNBUOD, which is good for club as encourages more crewing, club membership, etc, etc.

Cheers,

Sean

[TheOG]

Sean’s point re ISP value of immunities is interesting; I can see merit in that being reviewed

Og

[bendy]

Another relevant consideration to this discussion, why are items twice as expensive for tables immunities as tables abilities?

Personally as a ref I'd like to set immunities more. Makes sense thematically based off things that have happened on dungeon. And given how immunity heavy the system is, think would make sense for the cost of these to be reduced to the same as abilities. And think people would value items with immunities in a bit more for the exact reason that it allows them to spend points on more fun stuff. So likely to try and make such items DNBUOD, which is good for club as encourages more crewing, club membership, etc, etc.

Cheers,

Sean

Agree with this, doesn't seem to make much sense.

Also as a ref it's nice to know in advance if there are some resistance heavy warriors as then it's nice to set some stuff they are immune to so they can laugh in the face of danger (rather than the tedious other way round of setting all stuff they aren't immune to).

[miles]

Another relevant consideration to this discussion, why are items twice as expensive for tables immunities as tables abilities?

Personally as a ref I'd like to set immunities more. Makes sense thematically based off things that have happened on dungeon. And given how immunity heavy the system is, think would make sense for the cost of these to be reduced to the same as abilities. And think people would value items with immunities in a bit more for the exact reason that it allows them to spend points on more fun stuff. So likely to try and make such items DNBUOD, which is good for club as encourages more crewing, club membership, etc, etc.

Cheers,

Sean

It is because I once set an amulet of 720 points of table 3 as an item, could be of the reasons 😀

Miles

[Gordon]

Immunities used to be a lower ISP costs in the past to the current ISP tables.

I imagine they were increased to prevent them being set easily and characters picking them up trivially and to encourage some diversity in setting items as I remember times when they were prevalent. It also stop guilds being able to have items that grant blanket immunities in guild items because they become to expensive to award from a normal dungeon.

Some people hate spending points on immunities, some people love them, there is no doubt that T:3 is powerful while imnsho not being interesting but the higher you go the more you get found out for having your points spent in other ways.

[TheOG]

Are 1/2 effects and resistances from the tables priced high like ‘immunities’?
Nitpicking a little, but I don’t know how it’s thought of ?

Og

[JamesC]

In some regards I don't like the fact you have to buy certain immunities.

It comes from the way they are set, this encounter plus this ability will just outright kill you unless you have the immunity. This forces the requirement of them. To me its not the immunities or the effects that are the issue but the way they are combined with each other and encounters.

I guess this is a symptom of higher level dungeons where this is required to challenge the party so by then, when they have become more affordable they should have become a requirement. At lower levels there is to much competition between basic skills, flavour and immunities.

By 3k most characters are just beginning to flesh out their build, they will likely have a multi race, a multi class, the basics of their class(es) etc.

A 3k dungeon shouldn't require lots of immunities, where as a 5250 and above should.

[Netheril]

Are 1/2 effects and resistances from the tables priced high like ‘immunities’?
Nitpicking a little, but I don’t know how it’s thought of ?

Og

Think it's a bit of a grey area, but I have had 1/2 fcts passed at the cost for abilities so...fwiw I either got away with it or they are!

Cheers,

Sean

[RichardCraig]

surely you're all forgetting 10pts Rebirth as the only immunity you really need..

I rarely buy immunities beyond tod and av spirit because there are now so many things that can kill you that sometimes it seems a waste of time and points.

And that before we get into the world of non standards!

I'd personally like to see all immunities just as cheaper war cry type abilities.

[Sarah]

Yep that was a brill item, which i was lucky to get as my werewolf,
made my life as a warrior much easier

Sarah

It is because I once set an amulet of 720 points of table 3 as an item, could be of the reasons 😀

Miles

[Sarah]

This is an interesting discussion as I have just been trying to do a spend, and immunities are a struggle but
this is how it has been for a long time, you will find that quite a few of the older players will do an old school
spend, which just means tons of points on immunities and get the interesting stuff later.

My approach to a warrior is very simple

Sort a background for the character - get some stuff based on that

Ac/life/damage reductions

Immunities and or resistances to things that are most likely to kill you...this will depend on what you are...and table.

For a long time warriors have been expected to buy immunities, as they need to be up standing when there is a fight, but
you can never cover every possible immunity/resistance, you have to hope you spent right, there is no shame in going down
to an effect that you do not have the immunuty or resistance too. The warrior is not the only party member capable of taking
down enemies, so you have to rely on others in your group, which is how it should be.

Just my thoughts... (old school, I know),
Regards
Sarah

[BBB]

The warrior is not the only party member capable of taking
down enemies, so you have to rely on others in your group, which is how it should be.

Just my thoughts... (old school, I know),
Regards
Sarah

What? Working together as a team a coherent party watching each other's backs?

What is this nonsense you speak of

BBB

[Fionamullin]

Just wanted to say the comment about being laughed at, we are in sme ways akin to a sports club and there is no malice intended,imo, its just banter and I apologise if I have made you feel bad at any point.
I don't think standard lists are required but agree on things that just kill you and a back pocket discipline innate to stop you having to kill others.
And to finish, Callum, 14 or 16? 😁

[BBB]

surely you're all forgetting 10pts Rebirth as the only immunity you really need..

I rarely buy immunities beyond tod and av spirit because there are now so many things that can kill you that sometimes it seems a waste of time and points.

And that before we get into the world of non standards!

I'd personally like to see all immunities just as cheaper war cry type abilities.

I seriously considered applying for an ability for a character to be able to buy Immunities at half cost but only gets three innates of them instead of having them permanently.

But I decided I probably could skip another poorly spent character for a while

BBB