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Worship of the Creator - Labyrinthe Forum
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> Worship of the Creator
Stuart
post Aug 22 2008, 09:08 AM
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Brothers and sisters in faith

I was pointed in this direction, and more specifically to Lord Amorphus and Harlot, to discuss a matter of doctrine.

I regard myself as a priest of the Creator, and worship him most sincerely. Having had discussions with Zerah of Michael, whose untimely death I mentioned earlier this week, I am aware of some marked differences between my personal faith derived from ancient scriptures and that of the modern Church of Michael. Perhaps if I could summarise the more controversial differences of which I am aware, we could discuss whether there would be a home for me within this Church or whether I would be best espousing my creed elsewhere?

The Creator of all things

Above and behind everything lies the Creator. His nature, his thoughts and his will are beyond the comprehension of men, and any speculation of Him, the source of all, can only ever be speculation. To understand Him one must be Him.

He is the only being deserving of worship, for to worship any other is to misunderstand the source of creation. Glorify and respect the part others play in the grand scheme, but give your worship to he that instigated it all. To dedicate your soul to another is to distance yourself from the Creator.

The Twin Forces

Before the dawn of time, the Creator spoke the First Word of Creation, forming a great goddess, forged to harbour creation and all it might ever be. A moment later, he spoke the Second Word of Creation and the Destroyer came to be, such that all that was created lay at risk of destruction.

The First Word was created as a goddess in her own right, a fraction less powerful than he who created her, and in the moment before the Second Word came to be she formed the universe in all its glory. When the Second Word was uttered by the Creator, the Mother became aware of the destruction of all including herself, and so forged angels as numerous as drops of rain upon the ground. These were the embodiments of her will, created to protect and defend the world, her first-born. In an unending cascade now she gives form to her will which is consumed in the same moment by the Second Word. But His appetite matches her capacity and hence the world of the moment exists relatively untouched.

From time to time she will prosper for a moment, then fail as she tires. Or the Destroyer will drive into existence briefly before she forces him back. An eternity of strife, created so a balance may exist. Why the Creator chose to do such a thing is beyond the ken of mortal man. There is some supposition that anything begotten of the Creator is perfect, and in being perfect is not susceptible to decay or destruction. The First Word came to be in order to allow things to be created that were not perfect, deriving only indirectly from the Creator. This is why the First Word is often referred to as being perfect in her imperfection.

Confusion often lies between those who worship the Creator himself, and those who unknowingly worship the Mother, his first-formed child. Many are confused into thinking that the Creator must oppose the Destroyer, and therefore they must fight destruction and its agents with all their might. The truth in fact is that the First and Second Words of Creation are both children of he who stands behind all, and to worship him is to glorify all of his plan, not just one part of it. The Mother is simply the first expression of His will, not the Creator himself.

The Destroyer is a necessary part of existence, for it is said:

A child that is always carried will never learn to dance.
In a perfect world no-one aspires to perfection.
Tears of joy are shed when fear of calamity has passed.
A man untouched by adversity will never cherish life.

The Others

Beyond the First and Second Words there are only a few creatures brought into being by His direct act, and those bear special mention. Unlike the gods of Primus and beyond, these creatures exist by the will of the Creator and are not dependant on the faith of their worshippers or the strength of their belief structure. They have no need for worship, and thus do not seek it. However, to call on their aid is the ultimate in prayer, being the closest one can come to communion with the Creator himself. One prays that they carry words to the Creator, or intercedes with him on your behalf.

The Third Word of Creation was brought into being to see that the suffering that individuals might undergo in this eternal conflict might be lessened. It is She who is the source of supernatural good in the world, the conscious application of the benign nature of the Creator that those sentient creatures might be granted the opportunity to extract more from life than that which might otherwise be theirs to take.

Hers is the Word of healing and of solace. To worship through her is to acknowledge the Creator’s first act within the world brought into being as being benign.

Then there is the Fourth Word, the Watchful one, guidance sought and protection desired. His is the way of benediction and thought – he came into being to help those with the sense to know they required it. Where the Third Word shows compassion for all, the Fourth Word bestows His blessings only on those with the sense to seek them.

Therefore one should worship the Creator of all things through the Four Words of Creation, and only in doing so can you truly honour the force that caused all things to come to be.

I look forward to receiving comments and thoughts, and would be delighted to discuss this extremely brief overview in more detail with any who are interested. I have fragments of scriptures and prayers I would be willing to share, as well as a re-compiled copy of the Tribulations of Illian Silversword, which used to be a pleasant guide for lay-members of the Church to understand how one should seek to live one’s life. I would of course be delighted to share these.

With kind regards

Tristan Te’Kale.

(OOC: Just for clarity, all of the above are purely IC opinions and not intended in any way to affect any existing character, unless they wish it to do so. I am obviously not saying "This is how it is." This is however how this character believes it to be. Stuart)

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Gordon
post Aug 22 2008, 09:19 AM
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Tristan Te'Kale

I must advise that My Lord Amorphus is currently standing a vigil that is due to last some days. When he stirs from the prayers and meditations of his vigil I will bring your words to him.

Please do not think his silence on the matter a lack of interest or an unwillingness for discourse.

Majrin-Tan

(OOC: 1 week to go in a rushed relocaton to Harlow and thus manicaly busy at work and at home. I'll try and respond if I get a chance otherwise it'll be after I have internet access at our new place.).


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Gordon Court
Port Miere business: portmierecitycouncil@gmail.com
Known to play: Amorphus, Radiant & Zaton
Cast of 2009: Amorphus, Ash, Cyric, Godstone, Kessel, Prowl, Mithaniel, Radiant, Raven, Strale, Void & Vorell
Cast of 2010: Amorphus, Aqueous, Blaen, Godstone, Hex, Kessel, Mithaniel, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Vanderlaine & Void
Cast of 2011: Cyric, Hex & Prowl
Cast of 2012: Kessel
Cast of 2013: Amorphus, Golgari, Kessel, Marimar, Radiant, Strale & "Terry"
Cast of 2014: Amorphus, Hex, Godstone, Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Radiant & Strale
Cast of 2015: Amorphus, Karador, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2016: Zaton
Cast of 2017: Amorphus, Equinox, Godstone, Golgari, Hex, Karador, Prowl, Radiant, Variel & Zaton
Cast of 2018: Amorphus, Despair, Equinox, Golgari, Karador, Lannary, Prowl, Templeton, Vanderlaine, Void & Zaton
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Cast of 2020: Amorphus, Isamaru, Karador, Kodai No Ha, Lannary, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2021: Amorphus, Grizzled Wolf, Isamaru, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2022: Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Lannary, Leovold, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Strale, Wrynn & Zaton
Cast of 2023: Isamaru, Leovold, Numai, Radiant & Zaton
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post Aug 22 2008, 09:58 AM
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Its an interesting view.

I think you might misunderstand where the majority of the Church of Saint Micheal place their faith.

Saint Micheal is the God of War upon Primus - his priests rarely worship him, they give acknowledgement to him, they have faith in him.
He is the Sword, he is the vanquisher.
His priests call him to aid them in the eternal battle against evil, his priests call the folk to battle, to fight against the darkness.

Micheal is the exemplar - what you noted as a believer striving for perfection. The actions and stories of his life each act as a moral and functional guide for how we should live our lives. We should reach for perfection, but whilst reaching we should offer a hand to those around us.
Micheal seeks to protect the folk, his teaching show us how we can live our lives. How we can aspire to a brighter future, for the betterment of ourselves, and those around us.
Micheal is not worshipped, but thanks is given to him, for the path he has trod grants us insight of the way to live.

We worship the Creator, he has no need of such.

I think if you take a step back and look at the writings of Martaine, you'll find mirrored scriptures, with what your call the Creator, for what Martaine names the Source.

Fond Regards

Harlot
Shrine of the Forgotten
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post Aug 22 2008, 10:16 AM
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Tristan,

As someone new to my faith I would be interested in reading any such scriptures or prayers you have.

Raine
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Jasper
post Aug 22 2008, 10:24 AM
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Tristan

I came to the church through the words of Anarchus, my good friend and the man who brought the faith of St Michael to the people of the Empire. I heard him preaching outside the great temple in Halgar and his words struck a chord in me.

He spoke of Michael, the Old Man of the Sands, as an example of a life lived well.

He spoke of St Michael, the angel set to watch over us, to guide us on the path to righteousness.

He spoke of Lord Michael, the Primal God of War, who strives in the heavens against Evil and Darkness, that they do not consume us.

In all these cases St Michael is an agent of the Creator and it is through him that we come to be close to our Creator, that we might glimpse the unknowable. As you say, to understand the mind of the Creator, one must be the Creator, and so we seek him through his agent who was once one of us and thus may be comprehended.

This clearly is my own interpretation but I do not believe it is too far removed from that of our erstwhile High Priest.

regards
Gaxx


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Stuart
post Aug 22 2008, 10:56 AM
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Harlot

My thanks for your comments - it was indeed my understanding that the Church of Michael in fact worshipped him as a god in his own right.

My concern lies to some degree in the consideration of the Second Word of Creation, the Destroyer. It is explicit in the scriptures that he is the second being brought into existence by the Creator. He exists that man may experience the difference between right and wrong, and that creation does not continue unabated like a cancer. The works of the Destroyer are not always to be opposed and His Destruction is impossible.

In general however, experience has shown that His minions have little understanding of their place in existence and it is best that they be returned to the wheel of life cleansed of their sin, or if they have strayed too far from the True Path for the Creator to judge them as He sees fit. Conceptually however He is a Word of Creation, and His proximity to the Creator makes his followers closer by some measures to the truth than those who follow the gods of light, who are in turn begotten by creations of the Third Word.

I am delighted to send Raine a transcription of the Tribulations of Illian Silversword, as well as the majority of the prayers in the Book of Hours. If anyone else wishes copies please do let me know.

Tristan
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LeeS
post Aug 22 2008, 11:22 AM
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Tristan,

All very interesting points indeed, these aspects of "grey" concerning the Destroyer and its minions are thoughts for men who can allow themselves to muse over them, I thank he who gave me form on this plane that I cannot allow myself to stare too deeply in to the abyss of the Destroyer.

I myself for some time as a being created by Michael's will, found myself praying to he who gave me life, and it was not until I had a deeper understanding, and listening to Martaine did I become aware that I was one of the drops of rain you spoke of, a combatant against the dark, created to balance, to give purpose to the world around me.

It would be good for you to travel with memeber's of the Church who will be gathering fairly soon. It has been too long since I have felt the warmth of others chosen to make the stand.

Isaac Raine
Avenging Spirit.


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Lee
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Stuart
post Aug 22 2008, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE(LeeS @ Aug 22 2008, 12:22 PM) *
Tristan,

...

I myself for some time as a being created by Michael's will, found myself praying to he who gave me life, and it was not until I had a deeper understanding, and listening to Martaine did I become aware that I was one of the drops of rain you spoke of, a combatant against the dark, created to balance, to give purpose to the world around me.

It would be good for you to travel with memeber's of the Church who will be gathering fairly soon. It has been too long since I have felt the warmth of others chosen to make the stand.

Isaac Raine
Avenging Spirit.



Isaac

I would very much like to do so if my beliefs are not anathema to the Church, and it seems they are not.

I am intrigued whether you feel you are an angel of the Creator or an angel of the First Word of Creation, the Mother. If the latter, I pray most sincerely that the Fourth Word will see fit to bless you with the wisdom to know when to fight the dark, and when to stand by and let it pass as Illian Silversword did in the Halls of Esperidon. It is a difficult decision to make for any person, let alone one created for war.

Tristan
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evilwizard
post Aug 22 2008, 01:05 PM
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Well, speaking from my point of view

(I'll point out now that I was at one time completely insane and may well be again I don't rightly know)

But Michael is the Creator. (or infact the creator is an aspect of Michael)
He made everything he is the only true God. Anything else is either some deluded powerful spirit or some spirit demmend god like by the throne, its only a term.

Now being that powerfull means that you can do many many things,
including having aspects of yourself "walk the land" One of those Being St. Michael. whom Saladin, Anarchus and others encountered.

All very nice.

Anyway He created us and gave us free will, to do as we pleased with. He did however suggest ways we should live
in that we should not just simply going round picking on people less powerful than us and killing them. even though that realy quite fun. Its bad and wrong. so don't do it. I'm guess these scipture you have suggest guidance for life in they way of tales.

We should live as best we can helping those we can to all live in peace. We should never summon sprites those apprantly thats slavery.

We all worship the same thing. not matter what we personally call it (Michael/The Creator/The Source)
Its the power that made everything and put this world into being and place.

Come jugdement those who except Michael's salvation and be judged worthly shall live eternal in the heaven he has created. Those who don't, well they will have plenty of time to see the error of their ways.

Right I'm off now to write some more rude messages about "king" Blackjack on the walls here in Deci

Be good.

William.


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In AD&D 1st Edition the spell "Mount" should only ever be used as a seige weapon....
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LeeS
post Aug 22 2008, 02:22 PM
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William,

Good to see you still haven't lost your sense of humour, its been too long old friend. As always sound advice in a practical way from you smile.gif

Tristan,

I see myself and have done since I first took my first evil spirit and sent it back to Michael's arms as an extention of his force, and as I now know Michael, the creator, the supreme being, which ever way it is looked at, the one power over all others. As to knowing when to let them live their live's as evil doers, I am maybe not the best person to try and reason with on that matter, as if you walk the path then your time will come, and with his blessing, I hope that at that time it is by my hand.

I am an angel moulded by Michael's wisdom, if that to you is the first word then let it be so, all I know for sure, is that the forces of good shall never be plunged in to darkness as long as there is still those that hold hope in their hearts.

Isaac
Avenging Spirit


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Lee
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Stuart
post Aug 22 2008, 02:43 PM
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Isaac

I sent you the tale of Illian Silversword and the Lost Soul of Esperidon. I would urge you to read it carefully and reflect on the message within. Slaying evil without thought can sometimes condemn a soul that could otherwise be saved.

The First Word of Creation is the Mother, She who created all of existence
The Second Word of Creation is the Destroyer, he who opposes the Mother.
The Third Word of Creation was spoken so that man may know relief from the strife of life. She is beneficence and all that is good.
The Fourth Word of Creation is understanding. He was spoke to provide us with wisdom and guidance.

To slay darkness without thought is a trait of the angels of the First Word, and Her failures and folly are multiple. The Cardinal Orishel of the Fourth Word fell by the wayside because he allowed justice to be ruled by vengeance. I would appeal to you, and I will pray to the Fourth Word, that you do not follow him down that tempting path.

Tristan
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