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> Your First 250 points, what would you get?
MattWest
post Apr 14 2011, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE(LucyH @ Apr 14 2011, 09:32 AM) *
...You will never regret having spent a couple of hundred points on innates of utility miracles like Prot, Spirit Shield, Talk to Spirits, Spirit Invis.


Unless you path!

(Sorry, I'm just being contrary.)


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JulianW
post Apr 14 2011, 10:45 AM
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QUOTE(MattWest @ Apr 14 2011, 11:42 AM) *
Unless you path!

(Sorry, I'm just being contrary.)


Raises a very good point.

If you are going to path, make your mind up early.

This being a question on what to do as a first character, I would advise not pathing unless you feel very strongly about it (e.g. I'm a healing priest who wants to heal everyone)

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MattWest
post Apr 14 2011, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE(Carlo @ Apr 14 2011, 09:42 AM) *
Good thinking! Id go for unarmed combat, or trusty old to ensure you can always fight.

I'll echo my tendancy comment, I think you should aim for your chosen tradition in your first 250, you get so much for your points.


I remember the lowish-points dungeon not so long ago where the whole party took a disintegration effect on all their weapons (triggered from a ward). We only had to go 1 encounter before we could replace them, but if you were a warrior, you REALLY wanted some kind of a weapon still intact. But personally I would say just carry lots of weapons and usually you will be OK. Question:- if you get a priest to bless your sword, does it survive a Disintegration-type effect?

As for traditions, personally I find most of the basic ones are less than brilliant value when you are still on low points, and they all have drawbacks. But if you are a monk, and you don't choose monastic tradition, you are either a very dedicated thespy roleplayer, or have some snacky min-maxed yellow paper tucked up your sleeve, or you probably need your head examined. Privileged is nice for the multiclassing options, but multiclassing is generally fairly poor value for a really low points character, unless you want to go archer...

If you want to be an archer, the best way is surely to be a Warrior, go Privileged and then multiclass to 6th level archer with your first 135 points, then buy +3 Weapon Mastery MP (X-)Bow (40 points as a class specialist) and Accuracy (40 points as a class specialist), total spend 215 points, and you can be in 78/26 life with 2 x jumps to get you out of danger when you're not ready for melee and unarmed combat, plus get WM broadsword from KOTL and be in Fire At Will! assuming it still exists. (You can probably catch up with a 1st class archer on damage grades pretty quickly after that?)


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OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 1500); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


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post Apr 14 2011, 11:06 AM
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QUOTE(MattWest @ Apr 14 2011, 11:42 AM) *
Unless you path!

(Sorry, I'm just being contrary.)


I suggested it as people were asking for good advice for starting their first <insert character class>. However clearly I was wrong in my analysis, so I shall bow to your superior knowledge of the game system in general and playing priests in particular.

Lucy
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MattWest
post Apr 14 2011, 11:08 AM
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QUOTE(LucyH @ Apr 14 2011, 12:06 PM) *
I suggested it as people were asking for good advice for starting their first <insert character class>. However clearly I was wrong in my analysis, so I shall bow to your superior knowledge of the game system in general and playing priests in particular.

Lucy


Well that's me told!!!

But I did say I was just being contrary, which I thought was a sufficient disclaimer.


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OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 1500); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


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aaaarrrggh
post Apr 14 2011, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE(LucyH @ Apr 13 2011, 10:39 PM) *
3. +2 casting levels means that you can cast, without killing yourself, all handbook spells. Given how often refs set dungeons assuming that a wizard can cast Dispel 10, that is worth being able to do.

Personally I'd say casting levels are a waste of points you pick them up fairly trivially along the way and are there really that many high lvl spells you'd want to cast especially at this many points.

Henry


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Craigus17
post Apr 14 2011, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE(MattWest @ Apr 14 2011, 11:58 AM) *
If you want to be an archer, the best way is surely to be a Warrior, go Privileged and then multiclass to 6th level archer with your first 135 points, then buy +3 Weapon Mastery MP (X-)Bow (40 points as a class specialist) and Accuracy (40 points as a class specialist), total spend 215 points, and you can be in 78/26 life with 2 x jumps to get you out of danger when you're not ready for melee and unarmed combat, plus get WM broadsword from KOTL and be in Fire At Will! assuming it still exists. (You can probably catch up wtih a 1st class archer on damage grades pretty quickly after that?)


No. For several reasons.

A warrior with a bow will never do more than quad whereas an archer has no max damage and can do quad at straight 8th and 10 by table 9. I dont know how quickly you can reload a crossbow but doing quad once per combat is complete [----]. Said warrior cannot multiclass archer until they're 450 points, and literally their only benefit in doing so is ditching the max damage quad. If you plan on staying bracket pure and not multiracing (good plan for first ever characters) then taking yeoman means you buy as 1st class warrir anyway, so really the only thing you have missed out on by not starting as a 1st warrior is a higher base life. Also a 1st archer will have far better scope for yellow paper compared to your warrior with a bow.

Fire at Will is rubbish - losing the ability to gain an extra damage grade when using a B cass weapon in two hands is a big thing for a warrior subclass and the restrictions outweigh the benefits.

Being able to repair your bow at will is useful (twice my bow blew up in my hands) but once you've taken trust old weapon (crossbow) its no longer an issue. The trick shots are ok but 1/day is lame when you consider at tb 8 Flick of The Wrist is 1/15mins. Tracking is ok but I wouldn't swap a damage grade for it.

I'd recommend The Frontline instead - +3/1, +1 DAC and a free warrior specialist skill. Also has intermediate and advanced tier abilities, which Fire at Will does not.

QUOTE(MattWest @ Apr 14 2011, 11:58 AM) *
If you want to be an archer...


Then be an archer. Not a warrior with a bow.


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MattWest
post Apr 14 2011, 11:59 AM
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But how can you shoot things from the back of the party if you're in Frontline?

It's bad enough for my knife-thrower being in Frontline, but at least he can throw his knives as he runs in, then forearm parry and do quad in unarmed - very difficult for an archer! I would say if you really want to shoot a bow, it can't be Frontline. Shadow Legion and some of the KOTL professional guilds might be good options.


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OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 1500); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


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Craigus17
post Apr 14 2011, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE(MattWest @ Apr 14 2011, 12:59 PM) *
But how can you shoot things from the back of the party if you're in Frontline?

It's bad enough for my knife-thrower being in Frontline, but at least he can throw his knives as he runs in, then forearm parry and do quad in unarmed - very difficult for an archer! I would say if you really want to shoot a bow, it can't be Frontline. Shadow Legion and some of the KOTL professional guilds might be good options.


because the restriction for being in the frontline is 'be a warrior subclass' not 'be a frontliner'

unless I am mistaken an archer is a warrior subclass.


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post Apr 14 2011, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE(Craigus17 @ Apr 14 2011, 01:10 PM) *
because the restriction for being in the frontline is 'be a warrior subclass'

unless I am mistaken an archer is a warrior subclass.


Have you actually read the ethos, or just grabbed the stats?
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Craigus17
post Apr 14 2011, 12:13 PM
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QUOTE(Keyth @ Apr 14 2011, 01:10 PM) *
Have you actually read the ethos, or just grabbed the stats?


my archer is in 105 life and does quin with a sword as well as 10 with the bow, so is quite capable of holding a frontline thank you

And the ethos says something about a band of warriors standing in battle unfraid or something. Nowheere does it say you can't stand behind the shield wall flinging arrows off at the charging enemy.

(*edit* - also, unless I am mistaken, MCC has an Archer in the frontline. Going to ask him this question too?)


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Jasper
post Apr 14 2011, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE(Craigus17 @ Apr 14 2011, 01:13 PM) *
my archer is in 105 life and does quin with a sword as well as 10 with the bow, so is quite capable of holding a frontline thank you


Congratulations.

Out of curiosity, what's your base life?



J


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Craigus17
post Apr 14 2011, 12:20 PM
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63/21 - Multiclassed Ranger to 8th. Then +24/8 stamina, +9/3 from item, +9/3 from frontline, makes 105 tblp.


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Jasper
post Apr 14 2011, 12:25 PM
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QUOTE(Craigus17 @ Apr 14 2011, 01:20 PM) *
63/21 - Multiclassed Ranger to 8th.


You've gone to 8th level at 1200pts? Blimey, what are the chances?


J


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Craigus17
post Apr 14 2011, 12:26 PM
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no I've gone to 8th level at 1450 points.

A lot of assumptions are being made about my character when I'm the one with the green card in my hand. So far I've been accused of not taking the word 'frontline' literally enough, and of cheating with my spend. Any other questions or comments on my Archer spend or can I go and have some lunch?


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Martinj
post Apr 14 2011, 12:29 PM
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You're wrong Craig.

Privileged (as a human) allows you to multiclas at 0 pts past (as Matt said) and those points give you +2WM in bow as well as no max damage.

I agree you're likely to get better YP as a 1st class archer, but you can't deny that having the higher starting life is good! Also, from what I remember on Sunday, you weren't doing 10 with a bow (that would have been very handy). I'm amazed you were in 105 TBLP on Sunday - have you managed many damage reductions (other than AC) yet?
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post Apr 14 2011, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE(Craigus17 @ Apr 14 2011, 01:26 PM) *
no I've gone to 8th level at 1450 points.

A lot of assumptions are being made about my character when I'm the one with the green card in my hand. So far I've been accused of not taking the word 'frontline' leterally enough, and of cheating with my spend. Any other questions or comments on my Archer spend or can I go and have some lunch?


Oh go on then - you are also highly selective about which edited posts you actually put 'edited' on, but maybe that's just me smile.gif

Have a nice lunch y'all.
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Helsvell
post Apr 14 2011, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE(Craigus17 @ Apr 14 2011, 12:56 PM) *
No. For several reasons.

A warrior with a bow will never do more than quad whereas an archer has no max damage and can do quad at straight 8th and 10 by table 9. I dont know how quickly you can reload a crossbow but doing quad once per combat is complete [----]. Said warrior cannot multiclass archer until they're 450 points, and literally their only benefit in doing so is ditching the max damage quad.


A first class warrior can take the privaleged tradition and then multi class archer straight away. I would not recommend that anyone plays a 1st class archer - there are very little benefits. Most warrior subclass or scouts can go archer quite cheaply. Remember that back stab stacks with WM so that an assassin with 4 grades of backstab that multi classes archer has a much higher damge potential.

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Jasper
post Apr 14 2011, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE(Craigus17 @ Apr 14 2011, 01:26 PM) *
no I've gone to 8th level at 1450 points.

A lot of assumptions are being made about my character when I'm the one with the green card in my hand...


Ummm no assumptions being made - trust me, I don't care enough about your character to think it through that far, as usual you're taking offence for absolutely no reason - just surprised you've taken a multiclass to 8th so early. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the lowest points anyone's ever done that before.


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MattWest
post Apr 14 2011, 12:37 PM
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QUOTE(Helsvell @ Apr 14 2011, 01:31 PM) *
A first class warrior can take the privaleged tradition and then multi class archer straight away. I would not recommend that anyone plays a 1st class archer - there are very little benefits. Most warrior subclass or scouts can go archer quite cheaply. Remember that back stab stacks with WM so that an assassin with 4 grades of backstab that multi classes archer has a much higher damge potential.

Peter


This is a very good point. If you like being an evil git.


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OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 1500); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


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