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> Med vs Regen
fatteacher
post Apr 21 2017, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE(Christine @ Apr 21 2017, 04:31 PM) *
As I said, Devotion. So good an ability that it got clarified years ago smile.gif

Write a miracle list that puts the minor sphere stuff you want on, remember there is no point putting on Major Sphere stuff from other Spheres if you are going to Devote. Which you are.

Buy all your devotion innates, devote to the tree and get the cheap standard non-standard to stop buying res innates or use them as something lower down the tree.

If you end up doing a 3 day or other extended length, buy greater aware med. Until then, don't bother. Buy double med and wizard med, should be fine, half the time on an extended length there will be some sort of med buff anyway because waiting until midnight to do the section is dull. Consider buying a cheap thing to let you med back innates if you think you will be wasting med time otherwise.

Buy spiritual healer or a non-standard version for survival. Also gives spirits, so win / win, and will let you buy Healing Sphere innates later cheaply, because you have Devotion and Devotion wins.

In answer to your other question, I don't like Vessel because it feels like a constant OOC mechanic interfering with my immersion. That's meant to sound less precious than it does, but basically I mean that constantly thinking about how much time I've had for the spirits that can only be used for certain stuff to regen, and the fact that I can only use certain spirits for certain spirits, is a distraction I don't find helpful. It could be argued that its no different from having healing-only spirits, but as a healer you are casting most of your spirits on healing anyway and tend to burn through that specific pool first so it rarely if ever matters. Also, again, I don't think its as good as Devotion smile.gif

C

Thank you Christine. That makes a lot of sense as does your reason for not liking the Vessel MC


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Martinj
post Apr 21 2017, 05:35 PM
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I think the answer to the question depends very much on whether it's for caves, 3 days or myths, what level you'll be and what your play style is. The make up of the rest of the party is a big influencer too.

As a dedicated healer on a caves dungeon, I'd go devotion - as you often won't cast much healing right at the start of the day. On a 3 day I'd consider adding Vessel - depending on how much room there is in your spend (in a 3k spend it's probably a no brainer - as it opens you up for blesses and Comms and the odd dismiss). If you have a free social guild, you could consider joining blunt club for greater aware med twice a day and then buy double med rate, pure med, a med burst and calming herbs for 21 spirits back into your main pool 3/day.

On Myths last year I thought long and hard about Vessel vs Med. I took med for a number of reasons (overall cost was about the same, for x4 med): more breaks on a myths (including the odd 15mins during RP or wardings), I tend to cast masses in big bursts rather than a little over time, there was a dedicated healer (and a few spiritless/Druids) - so I was healing support, I had big power ups to cast first thing in the morning and med back the power, I cast quite a lot of non-HB stuff.
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Ferro
post Apr 21 2017, 06:42 PM
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Lots to consider. Really appreciate all the opinions.

For me, I'll be looking at doing major sphere healing and major sphere benediction. While I appreciate the majority of my spirits will be spent on healing, I also want to be able to buff.

I am currently only a couple of hundred points and will be trying to get to 3k for the July 4 day so yes, it's for an extended length but I'm doing lots of cave dungeons to get there.



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Christine
post Apr 21 2017, 07:02 PM
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QUOTE(Ferro @ Apr 21 2017, 07:42 PM) *
Lots to consider. Really appreciate all the opinions.

For me, I'll be looking at doing major sphere healing and major sphere benediction. While I appreciate the majority of my spirits will be spent on healing, I also want to be able to buff.

I am currently only a couple of hundred points and will be trying to get to 3k for the July 4 day so yes, it's for an extended length but I'm doing lots of cave dungeons to get there.


In which case Devotion isn't an option, so Vessel probably looks a lot better than it would normally. Spiritual Healer (or variant) and Vessel, in that order, perhaps? Your Vessel and SH healer spirits will cover most healing and that leaves the rest for Benediction.

In the alternative you could try for the fairly standard non standard (as in I've seen it a fair few times) of "may cast major sphere miracles from second major sphere despite devotion restrictions", but my versions of that were I think T11. That may have been just when I applied for them though, as second major sphere is T11 - if as you suggest you are going to have 2 major spheres before then it might be an option.

None of which should be interpreted as teaching anyone to suck eggs, I'm just trying to get out of the packing I am supposed to be doing and hiding from the children smile.gif

C
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Carlo
post Apr 21 2017, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE(Christine @ Apr 21 2017, 08:02 PM) *
In which case Devotion isn't an option, so Vessel probably looks a lot better than it would normally. Spiritual Healer (or variant) and Vessel, in that order, perhaps? Your Vessel and SH healer spirits will cover most healing and that leaves the rest for Benediction.

In the alternative you could try for the fairly standard non standard (as in I've seen it a fair few times) of "may cast major sphere miracles from second major sphere despite devotion restrictions", but my versions of that were I think T11. That may have been just when I applied for them though, as second major sphere is T11 - if as you suggest you are going to have 2 major spheres before then it might be an option.

None of which should be interpreted as teaching anyone to suck eggs, I'm just trying to get out of the packing I am supposed to be doing and hiding from the children smile.gif

C


Second major sphere is table 10 these days, and you can get a third on 11 if you're bracket pure I think smile.gif

Ps - I hate vessel too.
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Christine
post Apr 21 2017, 08:28 PM
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Really? Then there's an error in the new books cos I checked under spheres sad.gif Good to know though.

C
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Carlo
post Apr 21 2017, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE(Christine @ Apr 21 2017, 09:28 PM) *
Really? Then there's an error in the new books cos I checked under spheres sad.gif Good to know though.

C


I'm reading page 41?

Maybe somewhere else in the books it wasn't updated? What page are you reading?

smile.gif
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Christine
post Apr 21 2017, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE(Carlo @ Apr 21 2017, 09:41 PM) *
I'm reading page 41?

Maybe somewhere else in the books it wasn't updated? What page are you reading?

smile.gif


Ah no I'm wrong, misread the reference to t11 in the sentence below.

I remember when I used to have a less tragic existence than checking rulebooks on a Friday night smile.gif

C
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JasonE
post Apr 21 2017, 10:27 PM
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There's one major flaw with regen, you can't sleep through most of an adventure sad.gif


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dnsmantra
post Apr 21 2017, 10:46 PM
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On the flip side of the med vs regen thing, one thing I did really like was the Torsland myths med-burst approach. Two people had miracles of med-burst (self/other) and every 3 hours they'd cast it a bunch, people would sit down for 15 mins and then be back out on section again. Was a super good way to make the most of med and cram in as many sections as possible.

If you want to go the med route, this is a super nice and convenient way of doing it.

Huw
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BBB
post Apr 21 2017, 11:51 PM
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QUOTE(JasonE @ Apr 21 2017, 11:27 PM) *
There's one major flaw with regen, you can't sleep through most of an adventure sad.gif


You've never adventured with Kevin Rye as Thyrn then I take it? wink.gif

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RichardCraig
post Apr 24 2017, 08:29 AM
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Both love and hate vessel, it's great because it allows you to do stuff all day long it's bad because it means you need a stop watch.

I personally think you should just get 12 spirits at the start of the hour, much easier to ref and people aren't constantly asking for time checks.

Also go priest of the runes as this bypasses all of the down sides as you can cast advanced and store power from the go.

I've bought it as everything currently, only one spend that I did which didn't have it in was when I was all about casting big 8 hour advanced miracles and so med was better.
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BBB
post Apr 24 2017, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE(RichardCraig @ Apr 24 2017, 09:29 AM) *
I personally think you should just get 12 spirits at the start of the hour, much easier to ref and people aren't constantly asking for time checks.


I like this suggestion a lot. It solves the "OOC"-ness of the ability that has been pointed out.

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RichFromant
post Apr 24 2017, 09:53 AM
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Like a lot of people I think the spirit regen is very good, and probably a bit too cheap for how good it is for the points. Will almost always get more spirits from that then med on normal dungeons. Combo'ed with priest of the runes it is very strong.

The other issue with it is is the tendency to rely on real world time passing rather then actual IC time, eg when battleboarding and since you can't med in a time faff normally, and shouldn't regen either. The ref should tell you how long of actual dungeon you have had rather then places relying on only time or actual time checks. Is one of the reasons why I don't like the 12 power back on the hour style of regen abilities. Could have spent 15 minutes of that hour battleboarding and faffing


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gormaden
post Apr 24 2017, 10:01 AM
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Rich, where as I can see what you saying, I agree with Craigy's view. Simplifying things allows you focus on IC, and on a slight tangent I feel that time "faff" should be seen as IC time.

Of course this also takes into account Rule 7.


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dnsmantra
post Apr 24 2017, 10:23 AM
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QUOTE(RichFromant @ Apr 24 2017, 10:53 AM) *
Is one of the reasons why I don't like the 12 power back on the hour style of regen abilities. Could have spent 15 minutes of that hour battleboarding and faffing


That way logistical nightmares lie. Just balance how much it costs in points to how much power you get back real world time. Simplicity is the way forward; the system is complex enough as it is without making things more complex - 12 on the hour is a good approach, as is just looking at having done ~3 hours and what you cast and roughly how spread out it was and then doing the math of total cast vs total regen.

Medding and time faff isn't a great example, since if you're had 15 consecutive mins of time faff (which you'd need to benefit from med) something has gone seriously wrong with dungeon logistics.

Huw
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