IPB WARNING [2] Declaration of class_bbcode::convert_emoticon($matches = Array) should be compatible with class_bbcode_core::convert_emoticon($code = '', $image = '') (Line: 0 of /sources/classes/bbcode/class_bbcode.php)
Labyrinthe Forum [Powered by Invision Power Board]

Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

Labyrinthe Forum _ The Council of Jade _ The Snakes vote

Posted by: Naga Apr 2 2017, 07:38 PM

Riki asked to discuss it so I am happy to facalitite this.

I am happy to answer any questions about my vote and why.

I have also invited lady Neko panama sama and Woodrow sama to join this discussion.

Lord Naga
Dayimo of the Snake clan
Warlord of the Shadowlands


Posted by: Nibs Apr 2 2017, 07:46 PM

QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 2 2017, 08:38 PM) *
Riki asked to discuss it so I am happy to facalitite this.

I am happy to answer any questions about my vote and why.

I have also invited lady Neko panama sama and Woodrow sama to join this discussion.

Lord Naga
Dayimo of the Snake clan
Warlord of the Shadowlands


Lord Naga, could you explain what's gone on to those of us what was unable to be there?

Cheers,My thanks, Lord.

Shugoki

Posted by: Naga Apr 2 2017, 07:55 PM

In short we just travelled to the first village and hosted a peace meeting between clans of the Jade Empire and tribes of the Thun. A pact was made and peace between the tribes and the Jade Empire was bound in the ancient way.

The Snake cannot support this peace treaty as the lord of the Oyrx tribe,is Khudalch the lord of the shadowlands. So my vote was a simple no.

Lord Naga

Posted by: Nibs Apr 2 2017, 07:57 PM

Thank you, Lord.

Posted by: LauraSB Apr 3 2017, 02:00 PM

Things are not simple.

This would be the 3rd major time you have been the un-united of the Council in decisions of import and gone against the emperors wishes. You were not even in the room for a good amount of the talks, in fact a break was insisted so you could return to 'simply' vote no.

Ningyou Dansu

Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 02:55 PM

QUOTE(LauraSB @ Apr 3 2017, 03:00 PM) *
Things are not simple.

This would be the 3rd major time you have been the un-united of the Council in decisions of import and gone against the emperors wishes. You were not even in the room for a good amount of the talks, in fact a break was insisted so you could return to 'simply' vote no.

Ningyou Dansu


Dansu

This is about the vote not other matters, the reason I was not in the room was I was Asked to leave by Fu chi san so we could confirm that shadowed death dealer was not responsible for the attacks in the room. I must then agoligise for wanting to keep you safe and not staying there to listen and discuss.

The vote was as individual clans not as a council if it was as a council then our vote would have been different and represented the majority of the council.

Naga

Posted by: LauraSB Apr 3 2017, 03:22 PM

Snake said no. simple.
In fact you said very little at all during the whole proceedings, it is wonderful that you left for a moment to keep thing safe, even if it didn't exactly work.
You have started this discussion on Lord Riki's request, but you have said very little and explained even less.


I pointed out who your answer of no wasn't simple.

I was there for a task, It appears you were not, that seems simple Lord Naga.

I have no questions, simple.

Ningyou Dansu

Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 04:12 PM

It is simple .

Khudulch lord of the shadowlands clearly stated his want and reason for peace , so he could attack the celestial heavens and kill Riley sama the Celestrial emperor. By making peace with the tribes and the Jade empire he would only be fighting on one front and can rage his war on the heavens ,my grandfather and his Kami.

He is the mans wake we have been following over the last few years and is responsible for so much I am still connecting all of the dots of where he has been and what he has done. The most recent one was the kami of calm who had Una not sacfriced herself for us at the dawn then we would be in a very bad place.

When he launches his attack on the heavens will you breach your pact with the thun?
Will you defend the kami from his 30,000 oni will you break your pact ?
While I stand with the Snake down to the last man as he assaults the gate of the heavens will you break your pact?

But you will no have to my Dear Dansu for we will do our duty as we have been tasked to do by the Jade Emperor.

On why I did not speak much I was ordered by the Emperors Honour not to attack Khudulch and I had so much rage inside me it very much clouded my judgment without the kami of calms touch blood would have been split. So I decided that remaining silent allowed you to get the peace treaty the lands needed.

With regards to your insult about me I demand satifaction as that is the second time and I should have asked the first when you called me greedy.

Lord Naga

Posted by: Abel Apr 3 2017, 05:05 PM

Lords and fellow council members,

While I am sure that peace between the Thun tribe (including the Oryx) and the Jade empire will secure a lasting peace in the mortal realms, I am sure that with so many celestial being as members of mortal clans that Khudluch would only attack the celestial heavens with the hope hundreds of thousands of the free Oni and beast at his disposal and leave his 30,000 oni in the Oryx tribe "at home" otherwise he risks breaking the treaty himself, and as a creature so used to contracts as he is he will be clever about it but will not risk a blatant breach of contract. Should we be asked to come to the aid of the heavens it should not breach the contract as we will be fighting the shadowlands and its lord. Not the Oryx tribe. While I see the duality, I am sure that the fact the celestial emperor and his duality with the Emperor in Jade, will surely counted among the same "loophole".
This fighting the enemy and their lord will be as simple as any other invaders, hmmm perhaps I should have been there to conference with Woodrow-sama on how the emperor would have wanted this ironed out...

Sosen Oku
Jade Ambassador

Posted by: Abel Apr 3 2017, 05:23 PM

Yusaki-sama,

You are going to need to be clear before demanding satisfaction on a Daimyo who's reputation is leaps and bounds beyond reproach, when you say you have taken insult for something that even when rereading what has been said no one else can see the insult. I don't think any misgivings we given in your direction more than you have shown no union with the other lords of this land and that the late Lord Riki has called into question your loyalities with the Emperor and his wishes. You along with the other lords of clans were sent to make peace and you didn't, in direct opposition with the will of the emperor. No one has called you greedy nor insulted you or your honour.
Now we know each other well Yusai-sama and I know personally were you place your loyalities and I respect that greatly, you keep my wife, child and clan safe from the evils that would sweep this land. But that aside you were tasked by the emperor to do one thing and you would not. Riki-Sama is a person who put the Emperor before all things and with that in mind he calls into question your place amongst the council. No honour is slighted here, trust me, you know I am the first to reach for a sword, but this is not the time. Try to see thing from the other Daimyos point of view, perhaps it is time to step down from the council and let a diplomat take your place, you and I are the same my friend, we are warriors and killers of men. I knew when it was time to let the correct person to take the reins and find us the peace we do not seek, but want dearly for our loved ones.
Don't take the road to war, seek the peace of the fields.

Kazan Toshimoko
Done with titles

Posted by: Darkended Apr 3 2017, 05:23 PM

For those that do not know me in the inner council, I am Haiyū Yang-To. I take the place of Lord Rikki at his request as the Voice of the Jade Council.

As such, it is my duty to voice a number of questions surrounding this subject. The answers of which are important in that they will serve as anchoring points with which I shall base my stance on the matter.

Firstly, and I believe it was mentioned a number of times by many that participated in the peace talks in question, it was the Emperor's wish that peace be made. If there is any one that would take the stance that their duty, or responsibilities, is of greater importance than the wish of the Emperor, I request that they make this known now.


Secondly, and I direct this towards the clans who were unable to attend the peace talks, the peace that was brokered was offered between the Jade Empire, the thu'un and the clans who attended, and specified:

"A broad peace, between the Jade Empire, the clans and tribes...with the understanding that the finer details of the agreements be made in good faith between the above parties, and that the agreement be protected under the henceforth referred to as Caveat Seven, in that the actions of said 'dicks' may be dealt with appropriately without breaking the treaty brokered today. Such is the Emperor's will."

This is an excerpt of the treaty agreed and burned as an offering, the agreement which Amlalt and Avral were quoted saying "we should be proud of what you have achieved".

My question is offered to the clans who were not present: Are there any clans who would not have agreed to the treaty?

Finally, I ask this to Lord Naga directly, as I asked this once at the conference and wish to be sure that your answer is as clear now as it was then. When you specified you would never ally with the Oryx tribe, were you speaking as yourself personally or as the intent of the clan. Meaning, if you as current Daimyo of the Snake, were to step down as clan Daimyo, would your new Daimyo, and thus the clan be bound by the same convictions, or are they merely bound because it is your own wish to do so?


I await your answers, and shall remain to answer any posed to myself as well.


With honour,

Haiyū Yang-To
Voice of the Jade council
Ear of the People
Daimyo of the Jade Dragon Clan

Posted by: LauraSB Apr 3 2017, 05:24 PM

Please forgive me, but could you please inform me what you find as an Insult?

Also please remind me when I called you 'greedy'

Ningyou Dansu

Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 05:45 PM

QUOTE(LauraSB @ Apr 3 2017, 06:24 PM) *
Please forgive me, but could you please inform me what you find as an Insult?

Also please remind me when I called you 'greedy'

Ningyou Dansu


So you called me greedy and power hungry when I took shadow death dealer.

Saying I was not there for the task I was and did my duty to the Emperor.

Naga


Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 05:53 PM

Tosh

You know me well I don't wish I fight between us but you know I would not stop with you and I ask you not to stand in my way this time and I will give her a chance that I would not give others.

When my loyalty and duty is questioned then I will not stop till that issue has been resolved.

I have done my duty to the Emperor and will continue to do so.

I dream of tea houses but war is apon us and the heavens will be attacked soon

Naga




Posted by: LauraSB Apr 3 2017, 06:03 PM

I have no recollection of calling you greedy and power hungry when you took that accursed sword, however I felt you shouldn't, as did many others and this was made clear to you at the time. I have also made it clear what I feel should be done with the sword time and time again. I have told you in person I don't think you should wield it. Calling someone 'Greedy and power hungry' doesn't seem like something I would say, but please remind me exactly when this was said and maybe I shall recall better.

I disagree how second part is taken for an insult. How is stating facts to what occurred and how it looked be an insult. Maybe you were given another task other than peace? I state again I saw you vote against it. Is this an insult?
I didn't see you hold the spoon other than to state who you were... if I am mistaken there, there were indeed many in the room, please correct me.

Ningyou Dansu


QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 3 2017, 06:45 PM) *
So you called me greedy and power hungry when I took shadow death dealer.

Saying I was not there for the task I was and did my duty to the Emperor.

Naga


Posted by: Abel Apr 3 2017, 06:07 PM

QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 3 2017, 06:53 PM) *
Tosh

You know me well I don't wish I fight between us but you know I would not stop with you and I ask you not to stand in my way this time and I will give her a chance that I would not give others.

When my loyalty and duty is questioned then I will not stop till that issue has been resolved.

I have done my duty to the Emperor and will continue to do so.

I dream of tea houses but war is apon us and the heavens will be attacked soon

Naga

Many thanks, old friend. But I would appreciate that you drop you issues with Dansu completely, as you will never get close enough to her to do her any real harm, so ets not fight each other, no one is calling into question honour or duty, so let's aim our anger at the people who we know deserve it. We should concentrate our efforts in protecting those who cannot defend them selves.

Toshimoko

Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 06:08 PM

Yang-to

The snake will be there and we will defend you from the shadows, if I am dead the next will take my place. Regardless of how you see or treat us we will still stand and die and fight to the last. We will do our juty to the mortal realms and the heavens.

My wish is to drink tea and sake, my juty is to defend the land at all cost and that is the emperors instruction to the Snake.

I see you are ignorant to the way the world actually works and I'll excuse you this only time.

Naga


Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 06:29 PM

QUOTE(LauraSB @ Apr 3 2017, 07:03 PM) *
I have no recollection of calling you greedy and power hungry when you took that accursed sword, however I felt you shouldn't, as did many others and this was made clear to you at the time. I have also made it clear what I feel should be done with the sword time and time again. I have told you in person I don't think you should wield it. Calling someone 'Greedy and power hungry' doesn't seem like something I would say, but please remind me exactly when this was said and maybe I shall recall better.

I disagree how second part is taken for an insult. How is stating facts to what occurred and how it looked be an insult. Maybe you were given another task other than peace? I state again I saw you vote against it. Is this an insult?
I didn't see you hold the spoon other than to state who you were... if I am mistaken there, there were indeed many in the room, please correct me.

Ningyou Dansu


I remember it clearly that you said that along me having enough artifacts in my collection.

My task has never changed of that of defending our lands from the Oni.

One other time to challenge the Oryx about his wants. I did not speak after that as I wanted you to get the peace that is needed so much.

I am trying to be as calm as possible but war is coming and politics won't save us. If you think I'm lying say so and I'll prove I'm not.

Naga








Posted by: KatSables Apr 3 2017, 06:42 PM

For me it is simple Lord Naga. You disagreed with the Emperors wishes, I think you know what needs to be done, unless of cause I have missed the picture or aim of what we were to complete.

Neko Panama

Posted by: LauraSB Apr 3 2017, 06:52 PM

I have never said your are lying, but calling ANYONE greedy and power hungry is not something I would say.... (ooc: I cant search the forum, never works and I never directly insult anyone as Dansu normally, I think I said it off game)

I have never insulted you about the events, but I was given a task, you happen to have voted against it. Believe it or not, I was indeed saddened by this, as such I didn't however feel the the answer should have been simple, politics isn't simple and it was a mission of politics. I wanted more explanation, maybe it was not clear. You started this discussion after all.

But being saddened by your choice may have caused my word to be more forceful than intended and I will apologize for that.

I do not want a 'chance' lord Naga. I want respect as do we all.



QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 3 2017, 07:29 PM) *
I remember it clearly that you said that along me having enough artifacts in my collection.

My task has never changed of that of defending our lands from the Oni.

One other time to challenge the Oryx about his wants. I did not speak after that as I wanted you to get the peace that is needed so much.

I am trying to be as calm as possible but war is coming and politics won't save us. If you think I'm lying say so and I'll prove I'm not.

Naga


Posted by: dhurrell Apr 3 2017, 07:17 PM

QUOTE(KatSables @ Apr 3 2017, 07:42 PM) *
For me it is simple Lord Naga. You disagreed with the Emperors wishes, I think you know what needs to be done, unless of cause I have missed the picture or aim of what we were to complete.

Neko Panama


That too would be my interpretation for an honourable conclusion to this matter.

Masaru Tao Chai Talibah

Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 07:23 PM

QUOTE(dhurrell @ Apr 3 2017, 08:17 PM) *
That too would be my interpretation for an honourable conclusion to this matter.

Masaru Tao Chai Talibah



Yes but we have already concluded that your a coward and not fit to hold your title or lead your clan.


Lord Naga

Posted by: Abel Apr 3 2017, 07:30 PM

QUOTE(dhurrell @ Apr 3 2017, 08:17 PM) *
That too would be my interpretation for an honourable conclusion to this matter.

Masaru Tao Chai Talibah

I'm glad to see the Lion hasn't changed in the years I have been gone...

Kazan Toshimoko

Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 07:38 PM

Maybe I misheard you in the Dragons treasure horde maybe something whispered in my ear.

I accept your apology if you need to know any details behind my actions then just send me a private missive.

Naga

Posted by: Darkended Apr 3 2017, 07:38 PM

I welcome you to these halls Neko Panama.

I too echo your stance on this matter. When the wish of the emperor is undermined, there must be consequence.

What is the stance of The Emperor's Honor on this matter?


It is possible that I might have been persuaded otherwise, however that door closes when civil conversations turn to open insults.

I remind those of the council here that when this council was formed it was agreed by all that any who causes harm to another member, and that there would be consequence to this action also.

With honor,

Haiyū Yang-To
Voice of the Jade council
Ear of the People
Daimyo of the Jade Dragon Clan

Posted by: dhurrell Apr 3 2017, 07:38 PM

QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 3 2017, 08:23 PM) *
Yes but we have already concluded that your a coward and not fit to hold your title or lead your clan.
Lord Naga


If calling me a coward is the best response you have to my reminder of how honour should dictate your actions you are a fool and worse; you are a danger to this land.

I challenge you to a duel to the death; to uphold my honour and that of the Emperor.

Let us agree the details directly with Woodrow Panama-sama before you embarrass yourself and your clan further.

Masaru Tao Chai Talibah
Clan Daimyo of the Lion

Posted by: duncanmatthias Apr 3 2017, 07:41 PM

My stance is as always.

The true judge of a mans honour is himself.

Woodrow


Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 07:45 PM

Your Duel is accepted

Naga

Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 08:45 PM

Have you been insulted Yan-Toe?

Also are you saying the laws of the council come before the jade code?


Naga

Posted by: Darkended Apr 3 2017, 09:04 PM

Lord Naga,

I had asked you, in a civil manner to clarify your position on this matter, something important so that those that were not present can understand better as well as allow myself as Daimyo of the Jade Dragon decide which side we should stand on, and you have accused me of being "ignorant of the way the world actually works".

Unless you are saying that the world actually works with people in positions of political power making decisions without being certain of the stances of those involved - which I highly doubt - then your comment was false, and damaging to my reputation and the reputation of my ability to lead my clan.

Never did I state that the work of the Snake was integral to the Empire. You appear to have assumed that I have said that and retorted with an insult. What I was trying to ascertain was whether or not you, and the Snake as a clan, would be better suited to pursue your goals and orders as a clan apart from the council. Then, you would no longer feel bound by requirements of the council to hold a unified voice, and the rest of the council need not be at constant odds with you and your clan's interests.

Once again I fail to see where ignorance in the situation has arisen and caused you to comment on it.



With regards to your second comment, I have not, said anything of the sort. Both the code and our council's laws apply. Should anyone be forced to duel another within the council for their honor, we as a council could not stop it. However after such a duel was concluded the actions of engaging in a duel would then need to be addressed as per our agreements when the council was formed.


With honor,

Haiyū Yang-To
Voice of the Jade council
Ear of the People
Daimyo of the Jade Dragon Clan


Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 09:15 PM

Yes I was saying that you don't seem to know how the world works. My comment was not false unless your calling me liar?

Lord Naga

Posted by: Darkended Apr 3 2017, 09:22 PM

Lord Naga,

What gave you that impression? Asking a civil question on where the Snake stood on the talks and if the views were your own or that of your clan?
Merely talking is enough to warrant you throwing insults at me and my clan? Accusing me of ignorance is an insult.

I do not call you a liar. I call that you are wrong in your assumption of my ignorance. Furthermore I call your open assumption to be insulting to me and my clan.

Haiyū Yang-To
Voice of the Jade council
Ear of the People
Daimyo of the Jade Dragon Clan

Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 09:32 PM

Well we cannot let a insult go unanswered.

Name your location and we can settle this with honor.

Or if you wish to use a tanto to regain your honor your welcome to follow Rikis example.

Lord Naga

Posted by: Darkended Apr 3 2017, 10:03 PM

Indeed, we cannot. It is a shame you choose not to retract your words.

It seems that the Daimyo of the Snake is at odds with not one, but two of the council. It may be time to call a vote among the council to determine whether or not the Snake should be allowed to continue on it's way undeterred by the shackles of the council.

That would certainly resolve the issue of duelling within the clan.

Haiyū Yang-To
Voice of the Jade council
Ear of the People
Daimyo of the Jade Dragon Clan

Posted by: Naga Apr 3 2017, 10:05 PM

We will arrange the place for the duel.

Yes it's already being discussed I will add you to the private chambers in the morning

Naga

Posted by: Darkended Apr 3 2017, 10:19 PM

You that have thrown insults to all that disagree with you, and then at those who had no stance on the matter at all, and then demanded satisfaction by duelling in the full knowledge you would win in a duel of the sword over a wielder of words.

So be it. We shall make arrangements in the morning.

Haiyū Yang-To
Voice of the Jade council
Ear of the People
Daimyo of the Jade Dragon Clan

Posted by: Abel Apr 3 2017, 10:23 PM

The Emperor banned duelling for this crazy reason, and the second it was relented upon, the lords are all ready to stand in a line to kill each other.

What has become of the wonderful Jade Empire, the land which I love so much.

Please most honourable Emperor, intervene on this madness, before you must build your caste system back up from a pile of corpses!

Sosen Oku
Jade Abassador

Posted by: LauraSB Apr 3 2017, 10:31 PM

No one here has openly insulted you Lord Naga. In return you appear to have tried to encourage people to find insult in your words?

I am unsure if this is your wish or not, to have a queue of people to Duel? I hope I am mistaken.

Ningyou Dansu

To add to this it was made clear that it was the emperors wish and not will.

Posted by: cripple Apr 4 2017, 08:30 AM

QUOTE(Darkended @ Apr 3 2017, 10:22 PM) *
Lord Naga,

What gave you that impression? Asking a civil question on where the Snake stood on the talks and if the views were your own or that of your clan?
Merely talking is enough to warrant you throwing insults at me and my clan? Accusing me of ignorance is an insult.

I do not call you a liar. I call that you are wrong in your assumption of my ignorance. Furthermore I call your open assumption to be insulting to me and my clan.

Haiyū Yang-To
Voice of the Jade council
Ear of the People
Daimyo of the Jade Dragon Clan


I would not and will not make peace with the 1st Oni.
That is my stance on the matter.

I would however seek entrance to the private chambers for a short time, if you would be gracious enough to allow it, as I wish to say some things best not said in public.

Chu Shuten.

Posted by: DavidFisher Apr 4 2017, 08:52 AM

It always amazes me how many people know the "Emporer's will" and use this to drive their view to the exclusion of others wishes.

Did the Emporer request we make a peace? Yes
Did the Emporer say the deal we arrived at was his desired outcome? No

Our deal was only one peace, another could have been found. One that was more acceptable to Lord Naga. Lord Naga voted no but that does not mean he is going against the Emporer's will. It means the negotiations at that point were not acceptable to him.

I am sure if you all sit down and share some tea, a sensible outcome with honour restored will be found. Discussion by written word are never satisfactory and often lead to misinterpretation

Lord Naga, I humbly ask you agree to tea with the Jade Council before any duel and I ask the other lord to consider my words

I suspect honour for all remains intact

Su
Ancestor of the Snake Clan

Posted by: Naga Apr 4 2017, 09:10 AM

Su

I will happily sit down with the council for tea to discuss this. All apart from the fool of a lion who is in league with the oni.


Naga

Posted by: Naga Apr 4 2017, 09:26 AM

QUOTE(cripple @ Apr 4 2017, 09:30 AM) *
I would not and will not make peace with the 1st Oni.
That is my stance on the matter.

I would however seek entrance to the private chambers for a short time, if you would be gracious enough to allow it, as I wish to say some things best not said in public.

Chu Shuten.



It is important that you join the discussions in there and your opinion shared

so please share in private with the Council

Naga

Posted by: JHouse Apr 5 2017, 03:30 PM

For slights against my Lord's Honour, I Zu Wang Seung-Jean challenge Ningyou Dansu, Kazan Toshimoko, and Haiyu Yang-To.

On Starsday, I will be waiting on the wall between us and the Shadowlands. For those who choose not to attend me, I shall attend them and any who wish to protect them. Please understand that this is not a call for debate or your opinion, and begging only lowers oneself.

May Ting-Bo look favourably upon you all come the dawn of Sunsday.




=======================
OOC: I'll be down on Saturday, with a Kimono, a Katana, a battleboard, and an old school love of this oriental system. An area will be set aside during lunch, and it would be helpful to have confirmations (just post OOC on this string)

Please feel free to react in character as your character would (as have I) with the leeway of "I cannot make it due to IRL, lets pick another day". I am quite happy to discuss the merits and flaws of forum based smack talk in a system where people (regardless of their level [kudos Dave Hurrell]) avenge insults in exactly this way. I would also like to add the disclaimers that I wasn't involved in the three day, OOC I like all of my opponents, and this is a reaction from what I have read in the string

Posted by: Jack Apr 5 2017, 03:42 PM

Pickle will b ur secnd miss lady Dansu if u want it. Dough Pickle aint round dis starsdy. Pickle no like bullies.

Angry Pickle



=====================
OOC: I cant make saturday and Ive got no problem getting beaten to death...

Posted by: Jack Apr 5 2017, 03:56 PM

Infact Pickle will stand for all of dem nd we can do 1 fight for all.

Dat sound gud too u Wang?

Serious Pickle

Posted by: LauraSB Apr 5 2017, 04:24 PM

I am sure that if we have indeed slighted or insulted Lord Naga he would call this himself?

I am not begging, simply wishing to clarify.

Ningyou dansu



Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 04:37 PM

May I politely ask, why, other than trying to talk a friend down from a course a darkness I am being challenged? At no point have I insulted nor has Yusaki-sama expressed insult from my words. Also my lord Lady Dansu has been nothing but cordial and has in fact apologised for perceived slight and the apology was accepted. I will not speak for Lord Yang To of the dragon. I feel you are jumping to challenges that your lord does not require?

Hells, both your lord and I have drinks planned soon, do you truly think that he would need to to duel me if that was happening? Don't get me wrong, I love a good duel and have always hoped one day to challenge a swordsman such as you, but now is the time for words and diplomacy, not swords. That time will come, but it is not now.

Kazan Toshimoko

Ooc: either way me and Laura are in Malta from Friday, so no can do

Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 05:05 PM

OOC: ok i'm gonna go out and say it. This has gone beyond roleplay and has become complete bullshet, what started with some very cool roleplay, quickly spiralled out of control by one person deciding that stats meant they could happily stat taking offence and bringing it to "duels" or as we will call it "Stat murder". it went to and fro and then it honestly seemed that a resolution for all was found. Honestly look through this thread and apart from the Naga vs the Lion hash, there is NO OFFENCE given or intended beyond the need to kill someone who is 15.000 points less than the "offended" player. but that actually looked like it was resolved by roleplay and comradery. The another person who has too many points under there belts thinks they will beging it all again, because they can and there is no threat to them, oh other than losing to honour the first time round and pu ssying out and running off saying "nah I don't want to lose to roleplay, my stats mean I win so ner nerr". So i call bullshet

Frankly we can win this by simply playing your game, you are in different thresholds to us and will never get the chance to kill us and the threshold system means we will never have the real chance to do the duel and no system in the rules or stats says I can meet outside a paid for threshold dungeon with someone who is 15K+. so yeah not happening. "some reason when I turned up you werten't there" cus you couldn't book on, etc.

Stop this bull, just because you can win stats you know what that makes you? a bully and I'm sure The management would not condone any bulling in their game, I know I wouldn't. If you can accept the roleplay side of the game, stay out of it.

Jesus, it's like dealing with spoilt children...

Posted by: BBB Apr 5 2017, 05:59 PM

QUOTE(Abel @ Apr 5 2017, 06:05 PM) *
OOC: ok i'm gonna go out and say it. This has gone beyond roleplay and has become complete bullshet, what started with some very cool roleplay, quickly spiralled out of control by one person deciding that stats meant they could happily stat taking offence and bringing it to "duels" or as we will call it "Stat murder". it went to and fro and then it honestly seemed that a resolution for all was found. Honestly look through this thread and apart from the Naga vs the Lion hash, there is NO OFFENCE given or intended beyond the need to kill someone who is 15.000 points less than the "offended" player. but that actually looked like it was resolved by roleplay and comradery. The another person who has too many points under there belts thinks they will beging it all again, because they can and there is no threat to them, oh other than losing to honour the first time round and pu ssying out and running off saying "nah I don't want to lose to roleplay, my stats mean I win so ner nerr". So i call bullshet

Frankly we can win this by simply playing your game, you are in different thresholds to us and will never get the chance to kill us and the threshold system means we will never have the real chance to do the duel and no system in the rules or stats says I can meet outside a paid for threshold dungeon with someone who is 15K+. so yeah not happening. "some reason when I turned up you werten't there" cus you couldn't book on, etc.

Stop this bull, just because you can win stats you know what that makes you? a bully and I'm sure The management would not condone any bulling in their game, I know I wouldn't. If you can accept the roleplay side of the game, stay out of it.

Jesus, it's like dealing with spoilt children...


OOC: I've not yet had the opportunity to try and understand all the ins-and outs of the IC stuff yet but does it state anywhere in the Jade Code that a duel need be to the death?

First to Three blows, real skill no stats needed? Seems a fair compromise, Loser can even commit Seppuku if they wanted to but it sorts the disparity of points quite nicely.

BBB

Posted by: LauraSB Apr 5 2017, 06:13 PM

QUOTE(BBB @ Apr 5 2017, 06:59 PM) *
OOC: I've not yet had the opportunity to try and understand all the ins-and outs of the IC stuff yet but does it state anywhere in the Jade Code that a duel need be to the death?

First to Three blows, real skill no stats needed? Seems a fair compromise, Loser can even commit Seppuku if they wanted to but it sorts the disparity of points quite nicely.

BBB


OOC: I think the point stands, that no one can see a major problem ic, yet duels have been offered. However one higher points character has said something that was no better or worse than what others have said but they were ignored, for no reason other than they were an actual stat threat to their vitea. I mentioned this, apparently the reason was ic... but it still looks bad.

Posted by: PhilB Apr 5 2017, 06:41 PM


Should any of those challenged wish a champion in a martial duel to the death, then I offer to act as such.

Should it be required, I can likely meet Zu Wang Seung-Jean San on the wall this Starsday.

Ri'Lek.

(OOC - John, I totally get your roleplay, and do respect how unbending and straight up you play your characters... but it is a bit pony offering out characters who are 10k plus less than sensai...)


QUOTE(JHouse @ Apr 5 2017, 04:30 PM) *
For slights against my Lord's Honour, I Zu Wang Seung-Jean challenge Ningyou Dansu, Kazan Toshimoko, and Haiyu Yang-To.

On Starsday, I will be waiting on the wall between us and the Shadowlands. For those who choose not to attend me, I shall attend them and any who wish to protect them. Please understand that this is not a call for debate or your opinion, and begging only lowers oneself.

May Ting-Bo look favourably upon you all come the dawn of Sunsday.
=======================
OOC: I'll be down on Saturday, with a Kimono, a Katana, a battleboard, and an old school love of this oriental system. An area will be set aside during lunch, and it would be helpful to have confirmations (just post OOC on this string)

Please feel free to react in character as your character would (as have I) with the leeway of "I cannot make it due to IRL, lets pick another day". I am quite happy to discuss the merits and flaws of forum based smack talk in a system where people (regardless of their level [kudos Dave Hurrell]) avenge insults in exactly this way. I would also like to add the disclaimers that I wasn't involved in the three day, OOC I like all of my opponents, and this is a reaction from what I have read in the string


Posted by: Jack Apr 5 2017, 06:56 PM

Oi Ri'Lek! Pickle ready sed he will b a secund!

Pickle

(Ooc but I wanted to mock John and his inability to win a duel with a 3k character.)

Posted by: Darkended Apr 5 2017, 06:58 PM

((OOC: Just for the record, I'm still loving the role play here! My response is IC as Yang-To would never want a straight up fight with a warrior as he's not a fighting type and has to try and politic out of it where possible!))

Ri'Lek,

I do not deny that I am more a master of the word than the sword. Your offer to act as champion in this matter is accepted. Regardless of the outcome, know that you shall be well compensated for your actions. Let it also be known the Dragon owes you a favour.

Lord Naga, as Wang Seung-Jean appears to be duelling for your honour you wish this duel to settle our disagreement also?

With honour,

Haiyū Yang-To
Voice of the Jade council
Ear of the People
Daimyo of the Jade Dragon Clan

Posted by: PhilB Apr 5 2017, 07:02 PM

Pickle,

I am quite happy for you to champion - and will offer to second. Happy either way...

Ri'Lek.

(OOC - wouldn't want to deny you mocking opportunity smile.gif

QUOTE(Jack @ Apr 5 2017, 07:56 PM) *
Oi Ri'Lek! Pickle ready sed he will b a secund!

Pickle

(Ooc but I wanted to mock John and his inability to win a duel with a 3k character.)


Posted by: Sarah Apr 5 2017, 08:31 PM

Hey Jules,

I am not sure who exactly this is aimed at, but am quite offended. I specifically went for an alternative roleplay type thing (ie dropping mists) which
I knew would not actually have any real game impact what so ever. It was all a bit of roleplay. So If I have offended you in anyway or you
perceive anything I have done as bullying then please let me know and I will walk away. At no point did I have any intention of taking
out someone massively lower points than me, or frankly causing upset.

Regards
Sarah


QUOTE(Abel @ Apr 5 2017, 06:05 PM) *
OOC: ok i'm gonna go out and say it. This has gone beyond roleplay and has become complete bullshet, what started with some very cool roleplay, quickly spiralled out of control by one person deciding that stats meant they could happily stat taking offence and bringing it to "duels" or as we will call it "Stat murder". it went to and fro and then it honestly seemed that a resolution for all was found. Honestly look through this thread and apart from the Naga vs the Lion hash, there is NO OFFENCE given or intended beyond the need to kill someone who is 15.000 points less than the "offended" player. but that actually looked like it was resolved by roleplay and comradery. The another person who has too many points under there belts thinks they will beging it all again, because they can and there is no threat to them, oh other than losing to honour the first time round and pu ssying out and running off saying "nah I don't want to lose to roleplay, my stats mean I win so ner nerr". So i call bullshet

Frankly we can win this by simply playing your game, you are in different thresholds to us and will never get the chance to kill us and the threshold system means we will never have the real chance to do the duel and no system in the rules or stats says I can meet outside a paid for threshold dungeon with someone who is 15K+. so yeah not happening. "some reason when I turned up you werten't there" cus you couldn't book on, etc.

Stop this bull, just because you can win stats you know what that makes you? a bully and I'm sure The management would not condone any bulling in their game, I know I wouldn't. If you can accept the roleplay side of the game, stay out of it.

Jesus, it's like dealing with spoilt children...


Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 08:55 PM

QUOTE(Sarah @ Apr 5 2017, 09:31 PM) *
Hey Jules,

I am not sure who exactly this is aimed at, but am quite offended. I specifically went for an alternative roleplay type thing (ie dropping mists) which
I knew would not actually have any real game impact what so ever. It was all a bit of roleplay. So If I have offended you in anyway or you
perceive anything I have done as bullying then please let me know and I will walk away. At no point did I have any intention of taking
out someone massively lower points than me, or frankly causing upset.

Regards
Sarah


OOC: Not to worry Sarah, you are in absolutely no way involved in that statement, you have kept roleplay, roleplay and not used your stats to win. No need to take offense. I love everyone (mostly tongue.gif) in this thread but it got silly, then got fixed, then got silly, so i lost patience. nothing more

Posted by: Naga Apr 5 2017, 08:56 PM

It's aimed at me and John ...


Posted by: Sarah Apr 5 2017, 08:57 PM

Thanks Jules,
I would not have wanted to cause a problem like that wink.gif




QUOTE(Abel @ Apr 5 2017, 09:55 PM) *
OOC: Not to worry Sarah, you are in absolutely no way involved in that statement, you have kept roleplay, roleplay and not used your stats to win. No need to take offense.


Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 09:00 PM

QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 5 2017, 09:56 PM) *
It's aimed at me and John ...


OOC: Mostly John, but yeah basically

Posted by: Naga Apr 5 2017, 09:16 PM

I hate having to go out of character on this.

As explained my character is massively unstable, my alignment shifts,I have a evil sword telling me to kill everything,I've been kicked out my church,judged harshly by friends when it should have been a conversation.
Then get kicked out my guild , no wonder I'm taking pot shots and not calling back my attack dog.

The problem is simple we play a multilevel game in the same game setting,the fun and risk of playing a amslasian is knowing if you insult the big boys then they will come get you due to there and your restrictions. If not it's rubbish and people should now play one.

Do I throw my stats around - yes
Do I throw my status around - yes

Is Naga a bully yes totally if it gets his way! Am I?

I have always tried to stay ic and stick with my roleplay I've bended before eg didn't duel Dave last time but took 10% so we could all move on happily,didn't go to war when I should and comitted suppuku instead. I've bent and bended maybe I should not have but I wanted to play with my mates.

Sam

Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 09:40 PM

QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 5 2017, 10:16 PM) *
As explained my character is massively unstable, my alignment shifts,I have a evil sword telling me to kill everything,I've been kicked out my church,judged harshly by friends when it should have been a conversation.
Then get kicked out my guild , no wonder I'm taking pot shots and not calling back my attack dog.

Roleplay is fine and tbh you had the upset roleplay and I and Dhia had talked you down with roleplay and things were looking like we could just get on, Then John got involved and has already proved that he will not listen to reason with the Emperors honour debarkle, hence my statement.
QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 5 2017, 10:16 PM) *
The problem is simple we play a multilevel game in the same game setting,the fun and risk of playing a amslasian is knowing if you insult the big boys then they will come get you due to there and your restrictions. If not it's rubbish and people should now play one.

Do I throw my stats around - yes
Do I throw my status around - yes

Is Naga a bully yes totally if it gets his way! Am I?

You are right it is a multilevel game and unless it's a themeday or similar, our characters will never interact in a dungeon format, which means people won't book onto "unbalanced" and will eventually dungeons don't run and noone gets to play.

If you throw your stats around at the right people, it's generally ok, but when you do it at people who are barely 10%-20% of your points, that is just being a bully IC and OOC, there is a level of meta that needs to be respected, from both parties. But 100% honestly the people John called out to kill were in NO WAY insulting, beyond saying, it's time to leave. You have a massive habit of taking things out of context Sam and that bleeds over to Naga, who then uses his stats to take the misconceived fight back to the people you imagined insulting you. And I promise that they haven't. But honestly this is the reason people wanted you out of the council in an voting standpoint, because you, as Sam, misinterpret what is going on and the above process begins and then this drama begins over what is essentially nothing.

But in reality all this "war" will mean is that you will not be invited to dungeons and that is truly sad, because you are my friend and I really enjoy playing this game with you. Maybe it's time to put Yusaki to bed and think about another character?

Just putting it out there, if he has such dangerous rp to the views of 90% of the Amalas player community, maybe it's Naga is the problem and not my friend Sam? Just food for thought.
QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 5 2017, 10:16 PM) *
I have always tried to stay ic and stick with my roleplay I've bended before eg didn't duel Dave last time but took 10% so we could all move on happily,didn't go to war when I should and comitted suppuku instead. I've bent and bended maybe I should not have but I wanted to play with my mates.

Sam


Sam, Love you to bits and I really don't want to lose you as a player in Amalas events, your roleplay is important, as is everyone elses, but if it clashes with 90% of the rest of the players general roleplay and cause other player in the snake clan to no longer play in what Tony and I created to be something everyone can play in, a I said above, perhaps it's time for a new character.

Jules

Posted by: Naga Apr 5 2017, 09:59 PM

I was just going to call him off then it went all ooc.

So should I play my lvl 8 samurai then and start insulting people? You play a amlesian and the bigger fish will play. The meta should not come into play we have restrictions and they should.

Yeah the war is a RP thing as Naga is convinced the lion is working with the oni. Should I bend my RP just to play more dungeons?

I had not intended on playing Naga this year at all to be perfectly honest, I was not even keen on playing the 3 day. Naga is a massive pain in the arse that need handling as that Is how the character has developed over the last 20 years. My views are different as are his priorities it's going to cause issue easpically when people do stuff like ask him to leave or not do council dungeons -,they are triggers for the character.


Yep I have the new character running just busy reffing!

Posted by: Jack Apr 5 2017, 10:09 PM

Ooc - so as an outsider to this whole thing I have been following the thread with eager eyes as it has been quality gold. In my opinion Sam has been IC with the whole thing. Regardless of you insulted him or not if he wants to take it that way IC then that's his perogative... As much as there are dungeon thresholds you can't use them as an excuse of getting in the way of roleplay... If you choose to take the roleplay personally then that's your choice. Is Sam lots more points than you / the other people involved? Yes. Does that mean he should let it get in the way of his roleplay? Absolutely not. Points are an ooc thing don't let that get in the way. Did I give Argoth lip as a 2k warrior? Yes I did. Did I care that he could kill me at any point because he was lots more points than me? No.

It's not ooc bullying when it's IC? No. (I'm not saying that people don't do this - but Sam defo hasn't.)

Don't loose friends over a game - it's not worth it. Everything could have been solved completely IC and Sam wasn't the one who made it Ooc. I may have lost what I was trying to say as I am demolishing a Fino Pitta (it's a new trial product and if you happen to live near one of our trial restaurants - go and try it, you won't be disappointed!)

Make up, commit sepukku and be happy.

Jc

Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 10:14 PM

QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 5 2017, 10:59 PM) *
I was just going to call him off then it went all ooc.

Don't understand why this would stop you, and would have been the decent thing to do.
QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 5 2017, 10:59 PM) *
So should I play my lvl 8 samurai then and start insulting people? You play a amlesian and the bigger fish will play. The meta should not come into play we have restrictions and they should.

No because the Jade states the following:
THE JADE CODE

Show courtesy to all including your enemy

So kicking off with insults would be breaking the jade code and you'd need to off yourself.
QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 5 2017, 10:59 PM) *
Yeah the war is a RP thing as Naga is convinced the lion is working with the oni. Should I bend my RP just to play more dungeons?

Nope, but thats what I meant by a new chaaracter may be the answer.




Posted by: Forefallen Apr 5 2017, 10:17 PM

In my limited knowledge of the Amles side of the system and understanding of the honor codes etc, if Naga feels offended, then he is offended and that needs resolving.

I never see points as a factor in Laby when it comes to restrictions, if you have a character that 'has to kill all demons', and you're on a unbalanced as a 3K vs a 20K, you still have to fight, and probably die... That's your restrictions.

Then again, I generally choose to get out of these restrictions, they're hard and I'm lazy.

Lets all rebirth as spoon elves and crack on?

Jack

Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 10:26 PM

QUOTE(Jack @ Apr 5 2017, 11:09 PM) *
Ooc - so as an outsider to this whole thing I have been following the thread with eager eyes as it has been quality gold. In my opinion Sam has been IC with the whole thing. Regardless of you insulted him or not if he wants to take it that way IC then that's his perogative... As much as there are dungeon thresholds you can't use them as an excuse of getting in the way of roleplay... If you choose to take the roleplay personally then that's your choice. Is Sam lots more points than you / the other people involved? Yes. Does that mean he should let it get in the way of his roleplay? Absolutely not. Points are an ooc thing don't let that get in the way. Did I give Argoth lip as a 2k warrior? Yes I did. Did I care that he could kill me at any point because he was lots more points than me? No.

It's not ooc bullying when it's IC? No. (I'm not saying that people don't do this - but Sam defo hasn't.)

Don't loose friends over a game - it's not worth it. Everything could have been solved completely IC and Sam wasn't the one who made it Ooc. I may have lost what I was trying to say as I am demolishing a Fino Pitta (it's a new trial product and if you happen to live near one of our trial restaurants - go and try it, you won't be disappointed!)

Make up, commit sepukku and be happy.

Jc

Basically I agree with you Jack, but one persons roleplay is not more important than anyone elses and cannot and will not trump it . My issues lay in the fact that regardless of reason and fair comment, roleplay was ignored to the point of "my stats will see me through this misconceived insult, because the people I think are insulting me too low for me to worry about so I can say what I like" and John picking and choosing the three least threating people of the people on there, that I remind you made absolutely no insult, and chose to duel them (knowing John, it would be to death also, perhaps seppuku) also knowing them to be no threat to him, that is stat bullying, why do I know this, because there was at least one other person who actually did make insult and they were points enought to be a threat and also when Phil stepped up as a champion everything suddenly became real for them and there was a 180 (From my perception and at least 4-5 other people who I was talking to about this while this was going on, echo chamber maybe, but still).

!00% honestly, I don't want any of this bull and Toshimoko hasn't insulted anyone here and really has tried to be the voice of reason. I just want to play a game with my friends and leave this [----] in the dust.

Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 10:29 PM

QUOTE(Forefallen @ Apr 5 2017, 11:17 PM) *
In my limited knowledge of the Amles side of the system and understanding of the honor codes etc, if Naga feels offended, then he is offended and that needs resolving.

I never see points as a factor in Laby when it comes to restrictions, if you have a character that 'has to kill all demons', and you're on a unbalanced as a 3K vs a 20K, you still have to fight, and probably die... That's your restrictions.

Then again, I generally choose to get out of these restrictions, they're hard and I'm lazy.

Lets all rebirth as spoon elves and crack on?

Jack


Totally true, preconceived insult can go both way, some people are not important to be insulted by, and some people have a pride made of brittle glass. But if it is shown and prove that no insult is interned, should you still be offended?

Posted by: Forefallen Apr 5 2017, 10:31 PM

QUOTE(Abel @ Apr 5 2017, 11:29 PM) *
Totally true, preconceived insult can go both way, some people are not important to be insulted by, and some people have a pride made of brittle glass. But if it is shown and prove that no insult is interned, should you still be offended?


My understanding that it was more: 'X' person feels offended, whether offensive was actually there or not is largely irrelevant? I may be wrong though

Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 10:33 PM

I suppose it would be case by case, but that's my personal view on it

Posted by: Forefallen Apr 5 2017, 10:34 PM

QUOTE(Abel @ Apr 5 2017, 11:33 PM) *
I suppose it would be case by case, but that's my personal view on it


Fair enough, like I say, the only oriental I've played to a decent level was Jata on the 3day, of which I was outside the caste system and drunk smile.gif

Posted by: Abel Apr 5 2017, 10:43 PM

maybe it's just me, but I will happily alter/compromise my roleplay to mean that I continue playing with my friends, I mean restrictions are restrictions and my friends will understand that, but self imposed rp restrictions shouldn't cause a rift in a player base of friends, as people will sometimes get upset OOC because of something I have actively chosen to do for no other reason than roleplay.

Posted by: JHouse Apr 6 2017, 02:56 AM

OOC: This is essay worthy but I'm aiming at objective, I'm going to put in some TLDR markers for those who'd like to skip to the juicy bits but I think this should be food for thought for anyone playing in this geography of the system. Put the kettle on, tea up and start reading as I'm happy to discuss this when we next meet up

Unsurprisingly, I agree with Sam. I'm happy (as I feel it has stewed for a while) that this has come out as a discussion topic as we are essentially talking about how the bracketed system of dungeons protects people from meeting NPC's above their threshold, but does that necessarily protect them from the greater world.

To begin with, and because its important to identify that this is an in character thing, I'll pick out the bits which Sensai would take umbradge with;

TLDR1

--------

Things are not simple.

This would be the 3rd major time you have been the un-united of the Council in decisions of import and gone against the emperors wishes. You were not even in the room for a good amount of the talks, in fact a break was insisted so you could return to 'simply' vote no...

--------

Snake said no. simple.
In fact you said very little at all during the whole proceedings, it is wonderful that you left for a moment to keep thing safe, even if it didn't exactly work.
You have started this discussion on Lord Riki's request, but you have said very little and explained even less.


I pointed out who your answer of no wasn't simple.

I was there for a task, It appears you were not, that seems simple Lord Naga.

I have no questions, simple...


---------

The tone of these opening comments that start this chain bring a disrespectful and cowing tone from Dansu. You are 'telling of' Lord Naga, questioning his ability to lead. Most people on this string have played with Sensai, a few even since the beginning and will be able to identify that he doesn't deal well with any of these concepts. The way Sam refers to Sensai in his last post as Naga's attack dog (sorry Jules for the slow response - thinker not a typer) is often very true and the people who have played with Sensai a lot know that my list is broad to say this least, 99% is curtailed by Naga's usually more reasonable and politically minded demeanour.

---------

...With regards to your insult about me I demand satifaction as that is the second time and I should have asked the first when you called me greedy.

Lord Naga

---------

Naga identifies that he has been insulted. The "who will rid me of this bothersome priest" and Henry II is brought into effect and there is also no conceivable world where Sensai would see Naga as incorrect, and even if Sensai were to be able to identify this as a Machiavellian move he would still identify the parts which show the reason for blood and the wish for it.

---------

...Try to see thing from the other Daimyos point of view, perhaps it is time to step down from the council and let a diplomat take your place, you and I are the same my friend, we are warriors and killers of men. I knew when it was time to let the correct person to take the reins and find us the peace we do not seek, but want dearly for our loved ones.
Don't take the road to war, seek the peace of the fields.

Kazan Toshimoko
Done with titles

---------

With a diminutive tone set for this conversation, and Sensai believing that he has been green lit, the suggestion that Naga is anything less than a perfect leader places Toshi alongside Dansu in the line up.

---------

...Finally, I ask this to Lord Naga directly, as I asked this once at the conference and wish to be sure that your answer is as clear now as it was then. When you specified you would never ally with the Oryx tribe, were you speaking as yourself personally or as the intent of the clan. Meaning, if you as current Daimyo of the Snake, were to step down as clan Daimyo, would your new Daimyo, and thus the clan be bound by the same convictions, or are they merely bound because it is your own wish to do so?


I await your answers, and shall remain to answer any posed to myself as well.


With honour,

Haiyū Yang-To

---------

This is multi layered, but also put Yang in the cross hairs for a couple of reasons. Firstly, if you are a reasonably paranoid bodyguard, you can read this as 'if we replace you, will you replacement think the same thing?' Also, on the assumption (something Sensai does a lot of) that Yang knows of the Snake Clan and how we hold loyalty as a pretty singular code, its brings in to question the very ethic of the clan, suggesting that you could in fact find a member of the clan that would go against Naga's wishes and that there are cracks in our pristine family, something Sensai would be inclined to take personally.

---------

I have never said your are lying, but calling ANYONE greedy and power hungry is not something I would say.... (ooc: I cant search the forum, never works and I never directly insult anyone as Dansu normally, I think I said it off game)

I have never insulted you about the events, but I was given a task, you happen to have voted against it. Believe it or not, I was indeed saddened by this, as such I didn't however feel the the answer should have been simple, politics isn't simple and it was a mission of politics. I wanted more explanation, maybe it was not clear. You started this discussion after all.

But being saddened by your choice may have caused my word to be more forceful than intended and I will apologize for that.

I do not want a 'chance' lord Naga. I want respect as do we all.

--------

So, we can see at the start where one of Naga or Dansu has to be a liar, they can't both be right. Sensai, of course, accepts Naga as the truth and Dansu as the liar. Whether it ever happened or not to Sensai is neither here nor there, if Naga decreed the sky to by pink, Sensai would have it flogged for appearing in blue.

Recently, there have been a few situations that have caused Naga to pay an 'execution penalty' in matters of honour but IC Sensai identifies these as attacks on Naga's person that have been successful. With the now perceived pile on, Sensai interprets as a new attempt to see Naga on the chopping block and it is led by Dansu, a rival Daymio. Considering that this is one of two classic ways to bump off your competitors (the other being shredding them with a Katana which Sensai assumes Dansu or in fact any of the Crane to his knowledge to be capable of) Sensai starts to believe that he has found the conspiracy that he's been looking for. It is something to consider that even if a 15K character may be able to hack to death thousands of lower pointed characters, it is also possible for a clever 4th level character to call into question the honour of certain 15K characters, and in this geography of the game, can kill them.

Dansu apologises for her tone and this conversations quickly spiralling demeanour, but does not apologise for calling him greedy or power hungry. Dansu also finishes with saying that she does not wish a chance, and Sensai is inclined to extend that courtesy.

--------


I welcome you to these halls Neko Panama.

I too echo your stance on this matter. When the wish of the emperor is undermined, there must be consequence.

What is the stance of The Emperor's Honor on this matter?


It is possible that I might have been persuaded otherwise, however that door closes when civil conversations turn to open insults.

I remind those of the council here that when this council was formed it was agreed by all that any who causes harm to another member, and that there would be consequence to this action also.

With honor,

Haiyū Yang-To


---------

Sensai see's this as Yang all but stating that Naga should be executed (adding him firmly to the conspiracy), even calling in the judge...

--------

My stance is as always.

The true judge of a mans honour is himself.

Woodrow

--------

Luckily, the true judge (Naga) is as honourable as the day is long in Sensai's opinion.

--------

If calling me a coward is the best response you have to my reminder of how honour should dictate your actions you are a fool and worse; you are a danger to this land.

I challenge you to a duel to the death; to uphold my honour and that of the Emperor.

Let us agree the details directly with Woodrow Panama-sama before you embarrass yourself and your clan further.

Masaru Tao Chai Talibah

--------

... adds Masaru, which Naga swiftly accepts personally.

-------

Lord Naga,

I had asked you, in a civil manner to clarify your position on this matter, something important so that those that were not present can understand better as well as allow myself as Daimyo of the Jade Dragon decide which side we should stand on, and you have accused me of being "ignorant of the way the world actually works".

Unless you are saying that the world actually works with people in positions of political power making decisions without being certain of the stances of those involved - which I highly doubt - then your comment was false, and damaging to my reputation and the reputation of my ability to lead my clan.

Never did I state that the work of the Snake was integral to the Empire. You appear to have assumed that I have said that and retorted with an insult. What I was trying to ascertain was whether or not you, and the Snake as a clan, would be better suited to pursue your goals and orders as a clan apart from the council. Then, you would no longer feel bound by requirements of the council to hold a unified voice, and the rest of the council need not be at constant odds with you and your clan's interests.

Once again I fail to see where ignorance in the situation has arisen and caused you to comment on it.

With regards to your second comment, I have not, said anything of the sort. Both the code and our council's laws apply. Should anyone be forced to duel another within the council for their honor, we as a council could not stop it. However after such a duel was concluded the actions of engaging in a duel would then need to be addressed as per our agreements when the council was formed.


With honor,

Haiyū Yang-To

---------------

Yang states that he is insulted and has lost face, Yang also offers the Snake Clan to line up on the other side of the battelfield in Sensai's perception (that has often been accused of colour blindness), threatening to rescind any alliance with the other major clans, Sensai perceiving the Council of Jade to be a concord of all the major and powerful clans. This is a political flex and more fuel to the conspiracy thought

--------------

Well we cannot let a insult go unanswered.

Name your location and we can settle this with honor.

Or if you wish to use a tanto to regain your honor your welcome to follow Rikis example.

Lord Naga

-------------

... "who will rid me of this bothersome priest" ...

------------

For slights against my Lord's Honour, I Zu Wang Seung-Jean challenge Ningyou Dansu, Kazan Toshimoko, and Haiyu Yang-To.

On Starsday, I will be waiting on the wall between us and the Shadowlands. For those who choose not to attend me, I shall attend them and any who wish to protect them. Please understand that this is not a call for debate or your opinion, and begging only lowers oneself.

May Ting-Bo look favourably upon you all come the dawn of Sunsday.

------------

... and here we are! You will be unsurprised to hear, I hope, that I did in fact ***THIS BIT BEING EXTREMELY OOC*** message Naga directly asking for permission to challenge these people and the reasons why. I'm going to go into some hypothetical plotlines in a moment, and if one of them is the case, I (John) accept that Naga could in fact be setting up Sensai for a fall, as this is the game we play.

TLDR1

Next, I'd like to suggest some hypothetical thoughts of what is happening in our geography of the game currently

TLDR2


Firstly, there's the good old 'Naga is going insane' plotline possibility. The insane, old king ruling tyrannically over his land until either the curse is lifted or him thrown from the castle walls is a stable story. It is a solid possibility even, Laura having mentioned as Dansu that this Shadowed Deathdealer(?) has very bad juju in it, also the fact that Sam suggests that this iteration of Naga Yosaki has morphic issues with reality at this time due to an unstatic alignment leads to both plot or player led instability or both.

Secondly, everyone is shuffling for power AS THEY SHOULD BE in this part of the game. The thoughts of conspiracy which I mentioned Sensai to have come around to should actually be part of this geography, I would dearly hope for at least one other player out there if not several to be harbouring murderous thoughts for others, licking their lips in avarice over the power and status that the other has.

Thirdly, I wasn't at the three day but the bit about the adventure's plot that has jumped out at me from this string is "we should be proud of what you have achieved" emphasis on the should. Maybe, the intention of the Three day was to uncover this 1st Oni and decide that allying with him is a bad idea, dealing with that over the course of the event and finding a way to delay talks to allow the Jade Court to see this as well. Maybe there is some play in a thought about the morals of blind obedience. Maybe it is the Emperor himself, unwittingly or not, dancing us all down into hell. It would certainly be interesting to play this through, fostering tension between clans, thus characters and PC's in the game and stiring up the honour codes of this part of the system.

TLDR2

Next, I'd like to comment on my perspective of the new 'Amalaisian' part of the system as a returning player.

TLDR3


This part of our game is set to mimic some parts of a past Feudal society, after all, it is a roleplay game. This side of the system is intended to have added risk in the form of a differing to westernised moral philosophy and idealism which in turn leads to a high roleplay threat. You might be Masaru who's honour demands that he challenge someone who he knows to have no hope of defeating, you might be Sensai who's honour calls him to duel and kill people he not only likes (a very exclusive list), but thinks would be of much use to Amalas in the future. Its not about living or dying but about how you went about that, whether you wield a sword or a pen you shouldn't fear dying or loss, just how you will be remembered after which. Its about a pursuit of excellence and this is the merit. In the old days we used to get forearm parry for this but not any more smile.gif If you would prefer to"don't be a dick and do the dungeon" may i suggest going to play the Imperial side of the game or some KOTL

A lot of things are different in Amalas in comparison to Higashi or before that Lataraman (I think thats spelt right?). This is a new land where I am still unsure as to who holds what both in and out of character. There is a new emperor who, from a perspective, treats his vassals a little differently from before, allowing them to find themselves in situations which demand seppuku and yet giving no clemency and sticking absolute and hard line to the letter of the new Jade Code.

From my very first Panama outing, the second dungeon I ever did in adult players i fondly remember the bit which struck the chord "you ain't in young players anymore". First Dragon Tear (Rob Shepard) berating me at volume for being a bad Samurai (I think it was not protecting someone well enough) and then after finishing passing me on to Kili Panama (Sarah Williams) for an even more vocal lesson on how I was expected to act. I shat myself the whole way through, knowing that Kili could execute me as she had done to someone THAT VERY MORNING but not knowing that at that time, Dragon Tear was not actually a Samurai or of status (he achieved this at the end of the day) and I could have actually told him to do one for shouting me down and embarrassing my character. (for the record, it was a different char, and not Sensai)

In these days, seppuku, or dying for honour's sake was not something you came back from. Cheeky res's afterwards were not heard of and certainly not sanctioned, you just rebirthed. Also, bushido was the code, a spiritual philosophy that guided ones actions as opposed to the contract with the Emperor that the new Jade Code seems to be.

Then, there's the unmentioned history of characters and the way in which long played 'Orientals' may choose to see the changing of their lands. I don't pretend to speak for others and how they see this (I would love to cafe tea and talk about it) but I have come to think that it is like a secundal event, my understanding of which is that if not met, changes the nature of that in game geography (granted the fact that I know it to be a system mechanic to remove the more racey or liable parts of an aging system, never the less, it affects in character). For near a decade or more the Heroes of Higashi (title of the first oriental myths we played in Higashi) toiled hard and faced every threat to save a land that was ultimately etch-a-sketched, along with any benefit, title, NPC allies, reputation or history. There was a particular line in the string from Yang-To ***Extremeley OOC*** that I almost reacted to;


Firstly, and I believe it was mentioned a number of times by many that participated in the peace talks in question, it was the Emperor's wish that peace be made. If there is any one that would take the stance that their duty, or responsibilities, is of greater importance than the wish of the Emperor, I request that they make this known now. - Yang-To


The entire basis of my rebirth was that I was sent from the Celestial Emperor with one command, protect the Daymio of the Snake Clan at any cost, awarded for saving Higashi repeatedly. In Higashi, the mortal Emperor ruled over earth, Lord Jikoku ruling over the Hells (aka Jikoku) with all following the Mandate of Heaven. There was no higher order than this from whence my orders came from and Sensai still believes in this structure to this day as he is yet to experience any other truth in the game. Logically extrapolated and made short, my protection of Naga ordered by the Celestial Emperor, superceeds the orders of the mortal Jade Emperor. Now, I'm not going to react to this in character as it would cause an outrage, limiting my capacity to protect Naga and even possibly putting him and the clan at risk. What I am looking to highlight is that everyone has more colour to their character than the short form to the Jade Code. As a good roleplayer you should ask yourself at which point does my Amalaisian step across the line and act outside of this code or even justify themselves through the observation of a higher power or similar. This, I like to believe, is the long running theme of the Snake Clan. I won't pretend for a second (whilst we're OOC) that we're the most honourable clan, but we are most definitely the one that would break the code to save the land and accept being martyred afterwards

TLDR3

On system brackets and their OOC protection, this being the meat of this discussion...

TLDR4


Dungeons and events are bracketed for a game mechanic reason, not an in character one. If this were an MMORPG, instead of a bracket on the booking sheet it would be a zone of play suggestion as round the corner lurk raid bosses. I consider this a theme that runs throughout all role play games and anyone who has refereed, Dungeon Guided or GM'ed has asked themselves the question "is it fair to release these stats on these players?" I for one have always been the harsh warning sign GM, (at times) clearly labelling the Balrog pit, suffixing DO NOT POKE and then gleefully tearing my party apart and explaining when they call unfair. If someone asked you at a convention who the hell is this Dwayne Johnson prat and then after proceeding to headbutt the Rock they receive the Peoples Elbow, would you feel sorry for them? This is, i feel, a solid case of natural selection. I know there are many that disagree with me but I like my role play to reflect the cold, harsh, unforgiving nature of reality.

I do however agree that there should be the chance of victory, and that is what the purpose of a bracketing mechanic is in an RPG, to guide you away from over potent NPC's. However, the greater campaign, the world plot and all the other Player Characters in the Labyrinthe game if it had to be strictly clarified into this bracketing is no max. The system should be fair to you and give you a chance, other players however, do not. For a long while now, I have complained about the other side of this whole argument. No one has ever moaned when they died half way through their day and with Tirama sitting on the desk, you magically are back in the game, where in the IC reality of it that would have meant leaving wherever you were in whatever corner of the world, and by happenstance bump into the High Priest of Shaehan who happens to be on a local constitutional rather than administering to the needy in Scarlene. Never has anyone been bothered either by the fact that even though this guild special is a max 3K the 15K guild leader is here to drop all the comms, do all the healing and, if [----] gets real, save everyone from losing.

With these precedents, and the very concepts and ideology's that create the Oriental geography of our system is it any surprise that something a lot more malicious could also come from these usually beneficial legends. To expect no reaction from a murder god or psycho nutcase because you prodded him is just nieve.



Posted by: JHouse Apr 6 2017, 03:11 AM

Ri'lek, I understand that you're present in our land on Sunsday and I think that would be more convenient for the both of us. I am not surprised that having not seen you in years Brother, that this is how you chose to visit. I, of course, accept you as Haiyū Yang-To sama champion.

Pickle, neither would I rob you of a chance to test yourself. You should attend the Snake Clan lands so that we might arrange a convenient time. This should be arranged before the end of this month.

Zu Wang Seung-Jean
Daymio of the Zu family
Sensai and Warlord of The Snake Clan


================
OOC: Phil, made a bobo and double booked saturday in my keen, sunday before the myths leadup?

Its 4am, and this is why I usually ignore the forums smile.gif

Posted by: Darkended Apr 6 2017, 06:05 AM

((I'm not sure if I've just been told off or not, I've not broken IC except to say that I'm loving the role play..)

Posted by: MattJ Apr 6 2017, 08:48 AM

Completely off topic, John I think you've got the wrong idea of what TLDR means :-)

I only read your TLDRs and am none the wiser. Not a criticism, but just thought I'd mention.

Matt

Posted by: Abel Apr 6 2017, 08:49 AM

QUOTE(JHouse @ Apr 6 2017, 03:56 AM) *
With these precedents, and the very concepts and ideology's that create the Oriental geography of our system is it any surprise that something a lot more malicious could also come from these usually beneficial legends. To expect no reaction from a murder god or psycho nutcase because you prodded him is just nieve.

OOC: This rings volumes with me and the point I was making. Should someone ACTUALLY be meaning offence or "poking the bear" then sure, the consequences should fit the crime. But it it absolute BS that, just because yourself and Sam have the points to do without consequence, imagine slights where there are none. Putting it in plain terms, all the examples you cited, are in text and you decided that you would put your own tone to them and then make those people, who very likely, meant no offence. I can say for my own part, as Toshimoko, Said everything in a tone of one of two warrior friends talking in a calming manner, trying to get his friend to see sense. But you saw it as "a diminutive tone set for this conversation", see how wrong you were? and that was what Toshimoko was trying to do, show Yusaki that his perception was scewed and too look again, and in parts it worked, but then things got screwed up again and I tried again.

I'm going to spell it out here:

There came a time that Yusaki and the council came to an impass
There was a vote
the vote went agains Yusaki
No dishonour nor insult was implied, simply a parting of ways
It was called into question in public
Publicly, people's intentions were misconceived
it got out of control
it got fixed
You got it out of control again with your challenge
it is now very close to being fixed again:
QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 5 2017, 08:32 PM) *
Matsu my friend calm your rage the Honorable Jade dragon and Honorable crane have done me no wrong and while I have reset there political standing as that is the way when you move forward.

So, put your wang back in your folder and lets just get on with playing a a game, but if you still truely want to challenge me, we can set a Max my points, and you can book on and down spend to that and we can have a duel, I'm sure the system can be flexible enough to accommodate that, There is also the fallout of the poor people who just want to play the game with friends but now can't because people have taken imaginary insults too far and caused a rift that short of leaving their clan they can do anything about. Sometimes it is better to thing of others before you jump to being butthurt. But lets be honest, no one wants that rubbish and we all just want to play a game together.

Posted by: fatteacher Apr 6 2017, 09:03 AM

OOC
To be honest the Snake Clan leaving / being totally unfairly & unceremoniously kicked out of the CoJ might stop me playing my monk as he will not be welcome / allowed plus doesn't give him any of the much needed benefits.

It isn't actually an issue as I don't expect to be playing much over the next year or so. I really hope all gets sorted out without people getting upset with each other

Posted by: Abel Apr 6 2017, 09:10 AM

QUOTE(fatteacher @ Apr 6 2017, 10:03 AM) *
OOC
To be honest the Snake Clan leaving / being totally unfairly & unceremoniously kicked out of the CoJ might stop me playing my monk as he will not be welcome / allowed plus doesn't give him any of the much needed benefits.

It isn't actually an issue as I don't expect to be playing much over the next year or so. I really hope all gets sorted out without people getting upset with each other

OOC: The snake was never kicked out, only Naga voted to step down from the council seat, The snake were withdrawn after the fact by Naga. I was accually hoping to see another snake in his place, even discussed this with Sam at one point.

Posted by: Naga Apr 6 2017, 09:14 AM

Ooc: it stats clearly for the snake to leave the council not Naga stepping back/down.

I would have happily passed the role of body over

Posted by: Nibs Apr 6 2017, 10:06 AM

QUOTE(Naga @ Apr 6 2017, 10:14 AM) *
Ooc: it stats clearly for the snake to leave the council not Naga stepping back/down.

OOC
Which, frankly, sucks. Imagine if one of the KotL lords of order threw a (completely IC) hissy fit and made their order leave the Knights. Admittedly it's only Amlasians that have the RP restrictions of having to obey their lord, but the principle is the same. All snake clan characters have effectively lost their social guild slot and associated benefits. Although the guild benefits states

QUOTE(Naga @ Jan 1 2014, 03:44 PM) *
Once Clan always Clan: Once you have joined the Council you may never leave unless expelled by a unified vote of the council (rebirthing releases you also)

So now I have no idea WTF is going on!

Posted by: Forefallen Apr 6 2017, 10:16 AM

Personally, my Snake clan monk doesn't mind losinthe benefits, it's RP and something you buy into when you take the restrictions. IMO smile.gif

Posted by: Abel Apr 6 2017, 10:24 AM

OOC: The intention of the vote was that Naga stepped down apointed a replacement and the Snake Clan remained, but there is another thing going on which apparently needs ironing out. But honestly I'm so tired of this that I'm close to calling it quits and stand back and watch the fireworks proceed. I've tried really hard to calm things down in a IC manner and it's getting boring putting out fires...

Posted by: miles Apr 6 2017, 11:21 AM

OOC: This is the best soap on the net smile.gif



Miles

Posted by: BBB Apr 6 2017, 02:11 PM

QUOTE(miles @ Apr 6 2017, 12:21 PM) *
OOC: This is the best soap on the net smile.gif
Miles

OOC: "Honour, everybody needs Honour..." (to be sung to the neighbours theme tune 😉)

BBB

Posted by: fatteacher Apr 6 2017, 02:56 PM

QUOTE(Abel @ Apr 6 2017, 10:10 AM) *
OOC: The snake was never kicked out, only Naga voted to step down from the council seat, The snake were withdrawn after the fact by Naga. I was accually hoping to see another snake in his place, even discussed this with Sam at one point.

smile.gif Sorry I was being funny. Obviously didn't come across as it was written rather than said with a wry grin wink.gif

Posted by: jasonprice Apr 6 2017, 09:27 PM

OMG THIS IS GOLD !!!!

We all choose to play in this section of the game world knowing what it means !! Sam or John at no point camr out of charter!

Are we all for getting Sam just lost thousands of points due to a RP choice due to the honour system.

He hasnt bullied anyone and i take offence at that phrase being used in this way, hes playing a game that in this part of the system is deadly if you upset the wrong person.

yep he ic got pissed and did what an evil git would do, i can win this quick and easy so i will....

Sorry but total pisss take, and let me just get my chicken wings and throw words around that in the real world make people say "oh no we cant have that".

i had this done to me so many times as Jaraxle, by Thor, Bazil and Harpell, did i once come on here i say i was being racially bullied..

im sorry but i thiught this whent way over the top and real world pc BS brought into a game.

jay

Posted by: Darkended Apr 6 2017, 10:34 PM

((Seems everyone wants a go at stirring the pot!

For the second time we are basically at a point where we are all able to move on IC and OOC and another brave warrior wades in to the melee!))

Posted by: isbiraven Apr 7 2017, 05:28 AM

Ooc: can we stop this thread now.... it has become a giant circle of argument. I can no longer see a need for this to continue, all the ic and ooc stuff has been dealt with by those who are actually involved.

My 2grulls.


Posted by: jasonprice Apr 7 2017, 10:54 AM

QUOTE(Darkended @ Apr 6 2017, 11:34 PM) *
((Seems everyone wants a go at stirring the pot!

For the second time we are basically at a point where we are all able to move on IC and OOC and another brave warrior wades in to the melee!))


matt,

1, no stiring or if you know me at all you would know i would always say what i think is right if i feel somone has been singled out or made to look bad without the need or deserving it.

2, as for the brave warrior comment would be in itself a dig at someone, but ill let that go as your right im brave in person or on the keyboard.

3, as above i said what i said as i felt it unfair, but i bow to your words and this probly needs to stop. but my comments are honest and true if anyone had a right to moan about such things it would have been me years ago, ian do you knoe why hes called BBB? ask him what it means. real world stuff stays real world and not brought into the pit. IC bullys are that ic sam is one of the most helpful people i knoe at the caves has always gone out of his way to help me and others. and if i want to speak up for him or see somthing i dont like ill say so. as others have had there word too.

im sorry if i offended anyone but i also was offended by some of the words and pthe way they were used. but im geniunely sorry for any offence i may have caused, after all its just a game right.

Jay weekend warrior

Posted by: Darkended Apr 7 2017, 12:36 PM

^Was just saying was time to stop it all, as Tony said. smile.gif
We're all good here!

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)