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> Thinking up ideas - forest guardian / priest?
Louise
post Jul 22 2014, 05:24 AM
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I've not been able to get to the caves in months due to circumstances and it looks like in the future I shall be only able to come down rarely. I'm trying to shrink the ideas I want to play into the fewest number of characters possible - a Rogue has taken care of scout/wizard. But I've always had the idea that I'd like a healing priest, and a Forest Guardian.

Problem is, with how rarely I shall be able to get down, waiting until 450 points to multiclass just isn't an option for me. Would it be possible to yellow-sheet some kind of combination class (as Rogue/Wayfinder/Leywalker)? Most of the abilities and restrictions between Battle Priest and Forest Guardian are identical: same weapons skills (except FG don't get U, but could happily lose that), a wooden staff would suit both, both get two warrior specialists (FG don't get Smithing but could happily lose that), and both get 2 power points per level. Would it be possible to generate a class that's a combination of the two - maybe 1 sp and 1 ep per level? Or other ideas I could think up if you tell me it's not completely futile as an idea?

I am more attached to the forest guardian half - hell, even going the Spirit Warrior type route would be fine to suit my desire to be priestly. Long as I have (or can acquire immediately after 8th if a combination class can't have both sets of discerns) the priestly discerns, and the ability to pick up innates post 8th as SW would be fine. Long as I don't have the Leywalker casting restrictions, I don't think I could live with that.

Is this completely impossible?
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Harrumph
post Jul 22 2014, 06:54 AM
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it's not entirely impossible but i'd warn of caution

if you put in for some form of base class change to half priest half forest guardian you'll need to make it significantly weaker than a forest guardian mc'd priest

I'm also a once a monther (and annoyingly my mates want different thresholds than me so that further limits my ability to play exactly what I want) and i would advise just starting a firest guardian and play it up, there will be more than enough to spend your first 450 points on such as more armour, life and ep (also a talisman), you may as you go along decide that actually priest wasn't the right choice and want to go in a different direction

a forest guardian is also a hybrid class (part warrior part druid) to start with so to further water down that hybridness with a bit of priest may mean you are not as able to get involved (not to mention all the extra verbals you will need to learn due to the two power bases and spells)

however if you feel you must start the mixed plan then it is a base class change, define the skills, life scale, max ac and then your buy as (what abilities you are allowed to purchase post 8th e.g. second class forest guardian and second class priest or maybe at least non first class)

hope that helps, I'm not convinced it does but I tried ;-)
Richard
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Louise
post Jul 22 2014, 08:24 AM
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I tend to plan a lot of non standards, then never play them. I'd like to plan out a hybrid class, even if I'm not actually 100% on whether to do it. I know if I do want to go druid/priest, I shall get frustrated with not being priestly long before 450 points - likely a couple of years for me.

Yes, obviously significantly weaker than forest guardian mc priest - using Battle Priest as an example here for a minute, the lifescale is a lot lower than FG. I'm not silly enough to ask for all the discerns/1-8 abilities either. Max AC is the same for both classes. They actually seem almost identical except for a different list of 1-8 stuff, and a few skills here and there. Besides power base obviously. The question would be how to balance it, keeping enough of FG while taking just enough of priestly.

Some of the skills actually do overlap - Discern Nature of Wounds vs. Tell Wounds. Discern Type of Disease vs. Tell Disease. What I'd like, personally, is lose the druidic 1-8th abilities, except Recognise Earthpower, in favour of the priestly discerns. Like I said, though, balance down the line...

Edit: can't call myself an expert on hermit priests, but it strikes me an inability to join churches and get their benefits and/or a significantly smaller number of spirits on the miracle list might not be a bad way to keep the priest side of things down...
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DanM
post Jul 22 2014, 08:35 AM
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You could use Vivemancer as a base idea

Swap mana/spirits for EP/spirits. State they cannot be combined
Basic EP list (no finding faith) and 30sp miracle list.


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Louise
post Jul 22 2014, 08:41 AM
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Basic EP list would give me the full range, would that be unbalanced or do you think that'd be okay?

Do you think if I went with the Battle Priest's 2sp/level that would be okay? Probably end up with lifescale at about BP, rather than the much higher forest guardian's.

I'll have a longer look at vivomancer later, thanks.
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DanM
post Jul 22 2014, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE(Louise @ Jul 22 2014, 09:41 AM) *
Basic EP list would give me the full range, would that be unbalanced or do you think that'd be okay?

Do you think if I went with the Battle Priest's 2sp/level that would be okay? Probably end up with lifescale at about BP, rather than the much higher forest guardian's.

I'll have a longer look at vivomancer later, thanks.




I think because you want effectively 3 things (Fight, EP, Spirits) it won't be any good at any of them.


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QUOTE(Helsvell @ Oct 19 2010, 07:29 AM) *
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Louise
post Jul 22 2014, 08:51 AM
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Yes, you're probably right. Unfortunately, at the rate I can get down to the caves, even one multi-class will probably a few years to reach like I said... not really an option for me to plan a character that'll become what I want her to be at the first multi-class. Equally, I don't really need to concern myself with whether it'll still be a decent character at hundreds/thousands of points, that's too far away... Realistically, I don't see this character outgrowing max 500s in the foreseeable future, and that's not even counting the fact I'll likely be juggling two characters.
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DanM
post Jul 22 2014, 09:03 AM
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QUOTE(Louise @ Jul 22 2014, 09:51 AM) *
I don't really need to concern myself with whether it'll still be a decent character at hundreds/thousands of points, that's too far away...


I can understand the point in getting it all early. I would imagine that it won't be a decent strength character for a few tousand points. Doesn't mean it won't be fun to play, just might feel very weak in comparisan to others


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Louise
post Jul 22 2014, 09:17 AM
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As long as I can be expect to be reasonably useful once or twice, which if I can get my hands on priestly discerns shouldn't be too hard, and am not going to be actively pathetic the rest of the time I'm happy. I mostly show up to have fun being IC anyway. Besides, if it turns out to be pathetic, oh well. I don't have to keep playing a character.

Advice on what to give up to make it balance?
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Leo
post Jul 22 2014, 09:17 AM
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It would maybe be possible, but you'd have have to throw enough restrictions in to utterly cripple the character as a base class.

Let's say you started from Battle Priest. 47 life, 2 spirits a level, priestly discerns, buy as priest.

Let's take away one of those spirits per level and replaced it with 1 earthpower. You've gained some versatility, but EP is weaker than spirits, so far so balanced.

Now add the drudic restrictions, which are minimal, and add the druidic discerns, which are a bit rubbish but are often essential for fucntioning properly as a druid. You're starting the maybe gain the edge over the pre-8th battle priest through sheer versatility, you'd need to throw in a nasty little restriction to counteract this, like a wealth,potion or self defence restriction.

Then we come to your buy-as. You'd want to be able to buy as both priest and druid in order to make this work. Both classes get 12 extra power on the first two tables, and both have a multicalss based purely around giving you more power, which is literally twice as good as only being in one of those brackets. You'd need to throw on a fairly hefty buying restriction, like a +50% cost modifier, which would defeat the objective of it being a quick way to get your hands on both powerbases.

All told, probably not worth it.

What about instead putting together a non-standard earthpower race to combine with a spiritual class, or visa-versa? You can start as a priest or druid, have a smattering of the other powerbase's abilities and multiclass way down the line when you finally can.

For example
"Spirit Alfar - Forest Guardian
You are an alfar from a tribe that mingles the living things of primus. As per ordinary alfar but with a full spirit, with an innate "true believer" rather than a draw on EP. You do not count as having a specific environment, so lose the immunity to tracking.
Your class counts as a priestly class rather than a druidic one for the purpose of joining guilds"

Polish it a bit and it just might work. I'll write you a better worded version with a few post 8th toys to aim for if you like.
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Louise
post Jul 22 2014, 09:28 AM
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Yes, indeed. Point taken, you'd need to cripple it to the point of unplayability. That's why I ask on here smile.gif

I think your idea might be a very good one for me. What is True Believer, anyways? I do also notice that alfar can buy innate evocations at 12pts/EP; with how little of that a forest guardian starts with, it shouldn't be too hard to get a handful of evocations. I think I would like a little more expansion of the idea, it is starting to sound plausible smile.gif
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Leo
post Jul 22 2014, 09:54 AM
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True believer is usually a paladin ability lets you cast something from your church's list up to 6th level after 30 seconds of prayer.
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MattWest
post Jul 22 2014, 10:35 AM
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Privileged Tradition (for warriors) gives humans an extra multiclass slot at 8th + 0 points. Phil passed a tradition for my GK which didn't do that but let me start my 8th + 450 multiclass early. Be a human Forest Guardian; apply for "Nature Priest - uses my 1st Talisman Slot - upon purchasing this I may start multiclassing [state type of priest] immediately (using my 8th+450 slot early); my miracle list is then:- " (set out a hermit list). Explain your circumstances in the "other info" box.


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IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 750); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


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Stuart
post Jul 22 2014, 10:52 AM
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It depends on what your priorities are. I *think* from what you say above you're looking to play a Forest Guardian with short-term access to priestly discerns and healing innates?

How about:

"Priest of Nature" This uses up my talisman slot. May only enter the priest bracket and is no longer bracket-pure. Gains priestly discerns and may buy a single set of healing tree innates. May join a priestly guild as paladin.

This is pretty limited, and therefore cheap. The healing innates are 260pts. Buy your extra EP and bits and you're at 450 where you can then use a multiclass slot to go spirit warrior, probably a bit more cheaply that normal due to the above.

Stuart
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Sizel
post Jul 22 2014, 12:11 PM
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I would very much say "don't do it" ~ you are much, much better off doing one thing and being good at it.
If you want to be a priest, be a Priest.
If you want to be a druid, be a Druid.
Trying to do both will lead to situations where you don't have enough abilities in either direction to fill either role.
Especially so as you seem to be thinking in terms of being able to fight a bit.


You'll find you don't have enough power points to feel like you can contribute and your combat stats will be too weak to be able to survive.


If you're that keen on playing a priest and playing a druid, start two characters and alternate which one you're playing.
Or start one and keep the other idea in reserve as a spare for latter when you're bored with the first one / it dies / you want to start a new character alongside some other folk who are all starting up characters togther.


I honestly think you'll end up, overall, having a lot less fun trying to do it this way.

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Pete
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Harrumph
post Jul 22 2014, 12:18 PM
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based on your irregular attendance and as you say it's going to be ages before it's an issue you could throw it all in and give up the ability to multiclass or even multi race

they are hefty restrictions in the normal run of the game, but as you say they are so far off that they aren't such big restrictions for you

you may regret it though in the much longer term

just a thought
Richard
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Leo
post Jul 22 2014, 01:07 PM
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Option C:

Start an ordinary priest. Introduce yourself as a spirit druid.
Make everyone assume you've got fancy points apps by caring about nature.
For bonus points, occasionally look at a bear for a few seconds and say "that's definitely a bear" to convince the other players of your worldly knowledge, also complain occasionally that you can't read tracks in a cave.
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MattWest
post Jul 22 2014, 01:36 PM
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Or be an Alfar Forest Guardian and multirace Elder Fey, which you can do standardly at 8th + 0 points, very cheaply (380 points to level 6 IIRC). As an Elder Fey you get your choice of Minor Talent and Major Talent (and +2 DAC). One Talent can be spiritual. You can then buy another spiritual one for points post-6th.

And/or if you want to be a healer and a Forest Guardian, get a healing-based evocations list via Finding Faith (30 points, T1, uses Talisman slot & 20 monster pts).


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OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 750); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


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BBB
post Jul 22 2014, 02:09 PM
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I'd seriously advise against trying to do Forest Guardian Priest in the way you are after.

You'll get frustrated with your lack of ability to excel in any particular field.

Pete has hit the nail no the head. Stick with one.

Its probably a bad enough spend I'd think twice about it...

BBB


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Cildan
post Jul 22 2014, 02:36 PM
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Now thats saying something. BBB's spends are legendary :-)


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