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> Shieldless fighting... how not to get killed, E and B weapon ideas
DanM
post Apr 2 2014, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE(Stuart @ Apr 2 2014, 03:00 PM) *
I appreciate it's controversial, but it's worth just dying and getting ressed. If the ref is on the ball they'll probably avoid docking you res chance and items, give the priest his spirits back and quietly let everyone get on with their lives.

I died 15 times as my duellist going through 100%.

Stuart


Why is this a valid option? What made the ref feel like he needed to give the res chance back?


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MattWest
post Apr 2 2014, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE(Stuart @ Apr 2 2014, 03:00 PM) *
I appreciate it's controversial, but it's worth just dying and getting ressed. If the ref is on the ball they'll probably avoid docking you res chance and items, give the priest his spirits back and quietly let everyone get on with their lives.

I died 15 times as my duellist going through 100%.

Stuart


If this happens to me I assume the ref has made a mistake and consider myself to be cheating if I don't rectify it, and borderline if I leave it long enough that I forget about it... if it happens to Stuart, it's merely "controversial". Different attitudes to life laugh.gif

QUOTE(DanM @ Apr 2 2014, 03:22 PM) *
Why is this a valid option? What made the ref feel like he needed to give the res chance back?


Reminds me of the line, "what kind of a **** hits someone when they're on the floor". Loudly uttered on an extended length after an incident with a warding and some tree-creatures or something. Basically, if the monster fights dirty, using OOC limitations of the game against a player (not the case in the tree-incident), you might feel it's unfair to follow through on the consequences. But the way I see it, that approach kind of undermines the basic rules system.


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OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 750); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


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Stuart
post Apr 2 2014, 02:45 PM
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So if a player gets hit by a flurry of six inch blows by a monster hitting so fast he has to roll his q's to say his damage, said player collapses and battleboards dead. The ref checks what happens when you have a battleboard, or maybe actually sees the event.

He can either:
a ) Ignore it, it happens, no problem
b ) Rewind time, tell everyone to ignore it and ask the monster to fight properly, or
c ) Explain to the player that he won't lose res chance, explain to the priest that he won't lose spirits or life and have a quiet word with the monster to ask him to use full blows next time.

As far as I can tell the one that interferes least with the flow of the adventure is c). It's happened to me a number of times, and it's a trick I've used while reffing too.

Stuart
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Hulud
post Apr 2 2014, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE(Stuart @ Apr 2 2014, 03:45 PM) *
So if a player gets hit by a flurry of six inch blows by a monster hitting so fast he has to roll his q's to say his damage, said player collapses and battleboards dead. The ref checks what happens when you have a battleboard, or maybe actually sees the event.

He can either:
a ) Ignore it, it happens, no problem
b ) Rewind time, tell everyone to ignore it and ask the monster to fight properly, or
c ) Explain to the player that he won't lose res chance, explain to the priest that he won't lose spirits or life and have a quiet word with the monster to ask him to use full blows next time.

As far as I can tell the one that interferes least with the flow of the adventure is c). It's happened to me a number of times, and it's a trick I've used while reffing too.

Stuart



A common sense solution to defuse a somewhat unfair situation that can and often does breed resentment. Totally agree.


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DanM
post Apr 2 2014, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE(Stuart @ Apr 2 2014, 03:45 PM) *
So if a player gets hit by a flurry of six inch blows by a monster hitting so fast he has to roll his q's to say his damage, said player collapses and battleboards dead. The ref checks what happens when you have a battleboard, or maybe actually sees the event.

He can either:
a ) Ignore it, it happens, no problem
b ) Rewind time, tell everyone to ignore it and ask the monster to fight properly, or
c ) Explain to the player that he won't lose res chance, explain to the priest that he won't lose spirits or life and have a quiet word with the monster to ask him to use full blows next time.

As far as I can tell the one that interferes least with the flow of the adventure is c). It's happened to me a number of times, and it's a trick I've used while reffing too.

Stuart


Fair play, makes sense.
I guess the only times I've been on the end of it like that have been Legend dungeons, and it was expected that the monstering would be brutal.


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QUOTE(Helsvell @ Oct 19 2010, 07:29 AM) *
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MattWest
post Apr 2 2014, 04:03 PM
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Slightly different situation... monsters not actually drumrolling, just striking really fast (but sufficiently long blows) while I'm stuck in an awkward place and can't really do anything effective with my staff without thrusting or grappling... then again you're just as likely to have someone get the drop on you from behind which can be instakill for most characters at the levels I play anyway...


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OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 750); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


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Harrumph
post Apr 14 2014, 06:48 AM
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The key to making it work (somewhere I failed this weekend) is picking those fights that aren't yours and avoid them. Touch fx delivered by weapon just need Shields.
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Hulud
post Apr 14 2014, 07:09 AM
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QUOTE(DanM @ Apr 2 2014, 04:06 PM) *
Fair play, makes sense.
I guess the only times I've been on the end of it like that have been Legend dungeons, and it was expected that the monstering would be brutal.



This sort of thing though is a big problem for Labyrinthe in the long run as a game like this with rules like the ones it has needs to be consistent, this also applies to Stuarts comments (in the positive).

If you ever want to retain more than a handful of new players and keep them interested then the rules absolutely must be consistently applied otherwise people will inevitably mis-manage their own expectations and that is how you end up with the occasional unhappy customer who decides it's not for them before they are hooked in.

Not knowing what is around the corner is what makes Laby and LRP in general, great, however, not knowing what is acceptable from one monster or ref to the next and from one dungeon to the next is what makes Laby bad. I'm not suggesting you can rule for every eventuality (of course you can't) but you can certainly have some hard rules about a number of key instances and what MUST be done in those instances. Stuarts comments are an example of this, it would be nice to know that something like that IS the rule rather than if you happen to have the kind of ref who thinks that way.

apologies for the brief hijack.


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Conroy Suman:Grey Wizard,Nicosia Roguri: Pathfinder,Valentine:Champion,Keyser Kint:Thug,Boone:Scout,Virgil:Oppressed Troll Ranger,Doris the Dagger:Drag queen/negotiator,Sid Snout:Editor of the Sunsday Snort.

He boiled for your sins

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MattWest
post Apr 14 2014, 10:56 AM
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But you have to balance that against needing to keep the rules readable... you're never going to manage to pin down every possible combination of rules and situations, and the more you try, the greater the risk of some people finding the morass of rules off-putting... though I do tend towards the extreme codifying end of the spectrum myself, there do have to be limits.


--------------------


OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 750); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


A longer version of this post is available on request.
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