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> Magic Cavalier, Looking for critique
Abel
post Jan 21 2014, 02:21 PM
Post #21


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QUOTE(PaulM @ Jan 21 2014, 01:49 PM) *
Hi Mate,

Create a YP Vochstellen and enter the wizard bracket instead of buying grey innates may buy Ivory then 2nd colour blue which matches the horrible enemy on myths wink.gif
As a idea.
Paul,


Xeno as the NPC was a Frost Wyrmkin, so blue wouldn't have matched, it would need to be ice, but I see where you are going


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JasonE
post Jan 21 2014, 03:32 PM
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I know it's probably a waste of YP but I've always had the idea of the mana equivalent of a Spirit Warrior, but then levels 1-6 would basically be nothing bar a few minor caster skills like read glyphs


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MattWest
post Jan 21 2014, 05:03 PM
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QUOTE(JasonE @ Jan 21 2014, 03:32 PM) *
I know it's probably a waste of YP but I've always had the idea of the mana equivalent of a Spirit Warrior, but then levels 1-6 would basically be nothing bar a few minor caster skills like read glyphs


Apologies if this misses the point somehow but that's basically what Vochstelen is (from the Dominion of the Circle book)... you get something like rec mana, read scrolls/glyphs, discern mana user 20' (at 6th I think), buy as warrior subclass and buy as 1st class grey wizard but no mana, with spirit warrior life, and massive metal allowance. The publication actually says something about them performing a similar role in the Baronies to spirit warriors in the Empire (though hunting fey and hedge, I infer with a quasi-religious fervour). The class got miscellaneously meandered (by MCC?) into being in the warrior bracket which wasn't originally the case, as well as in the wizard bracket. Something to do with game balance I think as the change makes no sense from a system logic point of view.

I have an Ishmaic Vochstelen-variant as a multiclass for my lizard wizard but it's a lot more points than MC Vochstelen (680 to 6th? whereas Baronial wizards can MC Vochstelen for about 500 to 6th) and isn't very good partly because I messed up writing it...


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OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 750); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


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Rob
post Jan 21 2014, 06:51 PM
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QUOTE(Abel @ Jan 19 2014, 11:28 PM) *
Hey collective brains!

Was looking into a Cavalier going into Wizard. Thought i'd tweek some stuff in while I'm in the yp mood. So here goes.
Arcane Bulwark
  1. Is 1st Colour Ivory, Must adhere to the Ivory Code, Gains all Standard Ivory Glyphs and Handbook Grey. May have 5 Specialist Glyphs, Recognise Mana, Warlock metal restrictions. Mana: 1
  2. All Armour while worn is counted (but is not) Magical for metal restrictions purposes. Mana: 4
  3. All Shields while held are counted (but is not) Magical for metal restrictions purposes. Mana: 9
  4. For the purposes of Self enhancing or Weapon enhancing spells counts as +2 casting levels Mana: 16
  5. Empower Armour – As per the Power Warrior ability (opposite “element” is Ebony), does not require “coloured armour”. Mana: 25
  6. For the purposes of Self enhancing or Weapon enhancing spells counts as +2 casting levels. Mana: 36
Post 6th Buy as 2nd class Warlock

I'd like to go for more mana, so I ignored the level 1 stage of Sorcerer, but the next stage is Wizard mana, and I think that would jump the cost up massively.

Thoughts?


You need to put immediatly available ivory not standard ivory to save confusion...


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JasonE
post Jan 22 2014, 03:24 AM
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Did not know about Vochstelen if it wasn't around about 15 years ago and in not the war, wiz, priest, scout books I haven't a clue. Might have to look into them. are they consider as harsh to play as spirit warriors or does magic give them an edge?


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- Tyrone (twiglet Wizard, because they are yummy)
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MattWest
post Jan 22 2014, 11:14 AM
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Well I wouldn't consider myself the font of greatest wisdom on this matter, never having played one. But here goes.

I would say as a 1st class they are going to be one of the weaker ones at low points (below 1500). Basically spirit warrior minus, rather than spirit warrior plus. Magical innates are tremendously expensive for what you get, as a low-points character anyway, and they can't get mana points, and their colour is standardly grey. Having said that, 1st class grey wizard buy-as means things like Chromatic Wizard are theoretically possible if you want them. They could be a good base for multiracing golem early on, if you are that way inclined. Obviously they have good life which may work well in combination with Varial Caster (1st class grey wizard buy as!). But you would need a way of casting Grimoire glyphs (Damage Shield!), and you have no mana. Of course you could probably 2nd colour Ebony and get innates of the basic Ebony colours including Escape, Mists etc., or Bronze for Words of Death, etc. etc. Basically just look through the warrior subclass and 1st class grey wizard buy-as and ask yourself - can I make this work with permanently zero mana but spirit warrior life, platemail, sword and shield? My guess is at some stage you are going to spend 750 points multiclassing wizard to 6th level which presumably gives you mana, and end up considerably less hard than a 1st class warrior MC wizard, though with slightly better wizard buy-as, better ELOLs, a free discern and 250 spare points, and possibly a better casting level with mana.

When they were purely in the wizard bracket obviously they were a neat way for a Baronial wizard to get spirit warrior life and warrior subclass buy-as without using up a bracket. But that loophole has sadly now been plugged!

They are significantly clarified in Miscellaneous Meanderings. (Shield and weapon skills and brackets.)


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OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 750); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


A longer version of this post is available on request.
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