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> When to put forward a points app?
fatteacher
post Jan 16 2014, 09:33 PM
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When do people generally do points apps? At straight 8th, before, 500pts etc?
Ta much

Andy


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Andy

......................................
Godric Snowsson - Ice Mana Knight / Warrior 5k
Ginkgo Panama (aka 'Dead Man Walking') - Kensai 3.3k
Grandbow - Human Spirit Warrior - 750pts
Noyen Nopac Zu - Snake Clan Monk 1.9k

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Alasdair
post Jan 16 2014, 09:53 PM
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As the mood takes... I am not alone in writing points apps for character concepts I've never played.

But generally think of the character concept, and use YP to bring it to pass. If that is a gladiatorial warrior, you can go standard for 1000s points. If it is an etheric geomancer, then start early.

Enjoy!

Alasdair
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BennyB
post Jan 16 2014, 09:53 PM
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The answer that I suspect you're going to get is "It depends" because it does.

To clarify and give you some examples:
If you want to put in a base class / race change you would tend to do this before you even started the character.
There's lots of details about base class / race changes in the history of the forums.

However quite often you'll find that the first few points are almost spent for you, ac 12 and quad (for example), but you might want a non standard tradition so you might put in the request for that after you've played the character a couple of times.

Then you might decide to put a non standard class at a few hundred points past

I can only speak for myself but putting in points apps not too long before you think you'd want to buy them has always seemed a sensible thing for me.

Ben
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Gordon
post Jan 16 2014, 09:56 PM
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It really depends what you are trying to do and what you want to get.

For example if I have some "flavour" or non game effecting "roleplay" abilities to consolidate a character and their concept I would look to put them in straight away and buy them (if passed) as soon as possible.

If it is a multiclass and I know I have to hit 450pts to even buy the first level then i might hold off.

Anything that i feel might come back really expensive but doesn't need build up then fairly early so i can plan around what it might cost or restrictions it might place on development in other directions.

For a warrior your first 500pts are fairly easy, AC, Life, Damage Grades, Distancing after that it depends what you ant to do but after 1000pts if you don't have a plan you'll need to think about how you want to survive long term and what damage reductions if any are suitable and justifable for your character.


--------------------
Gordon Court
"The man with the barbwire soul."
Known to play: Amorphus, Mithaniel, Raven & Radiant
Cast of 2009: Amorphus, Ash, Cyric, Godstone, Kessel, Prowl, Mithaniel, Radiant, Raven, Strale, Void & Vorell
Cast of 2010: Amorphus, Aqueous, Blaen, Godstone, Hex, Kessel, Mithaniel, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Vanderlaine & Void
Cast of 2011: Cyric, Hex & Prowl
Cast of 2012: Kessel
Cast of 2013: Amorphus, Golgari, Kessel, Marimar, Radiant, Strale & "Terry"
Cast of 2014: Amorphus, Hex, Godstone, Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Radiant & Strale
Cast of 2015: Amorphus, Karador, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2016: Zaton
Cast of 2017: Amorphus, Godstone, Golgari, Hex, Karador, Prowl, Radiant, Variel & Zaton.
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fatteacher
post Jan 16 2014, 10:10 PM
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I'm thinking along the lines of an 'Ice Warrior'. Like a power warrior but based from his link to the ice. Character is a human warrior who was never told about his father except his surname is 'Snowsson' & he seems to dislike fire based magic much more than the ordinary bear. Mother has died and he has turned his hand to being a mercenary with heart's aim to be a fully functioning knight of the land.

I'm just shy of 6 foot and don't want to get to 20 stone plus, so Ice Giant is out.

Thinking white mana based innates & ability to purchase further ones might work.

Thanks for your feedback

Andy


--------------------
Andy

......................................
Godric Snowsson - Ice Mana Knight / Warrior 5k
Ginkgo Panama (aka 'Dead Man Walking') - Kensai 3.3k
Grandbow - Human Spirit Warrior - 750pts
Noyen Nopac Zu - Snake Clan Monk 1.9k

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Hulud
post Jan 16 2014, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE(fatteacher @ Jan 16 2014, 10:10 PM) *
I'm thinking along the lines of an 'Ice Warrior'. Like a power warrior but based from his link to the ice. Character is a human warrior who was never told about his father except his surname is 'Snowsson' & he seems to dislike fire based magic much more than the ordinary bear. Mother has died and he has turned his hand to being a mercenary with heart's aim to be a fully functioning knight of the land.

I'm just shy of 6 foot and don't want to get to 20 stone plus, so Ice Giant is out.

Thinking white mana based innates & ability to purchase further ones might work.

Thanks for your feedback

Andy



I'm pretty sure the biggest weight requirement anything in the system requires is 15 stone...and I ask you sir, what kind of self respecting (real mans) roleplaying nerd is less than 15 stone?


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Gordon
post Jan 16 2014, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE(fatteacher @ Jan 16 2014, 10:10 PM) *
I'm thinking along the lines of an 'Ice Warrior'. Like a power warrior but based from his link to the ice. Character is a human warrior who was never told about his father except his surname is 'Snowsson' & he seems to dislike fire based magic much more than the ordinary bear. Mother has died and he has turned his hand to being a mercenary with heart's aim to be a fully functioning knight of the land.

I'm just shy of 6 foot and don't want to get to 20 stone plus, so Ice Giant is out.

Thinking white mana based innates & ability to purchase further ones might work.

Thanks for your feedback

Andy


Might be easiest to simply multiclass white warlock right off but apply for 1st Colour "Cold" rather than white and specify what glyphs it gives you and perhaps include things like Javelin of Ice, Pact with the Winter Dragon, Frostbrand in your base spells.

Or a cold based sorceror perhaps.


--------------------
Gordon Court
"The man with the barbwire soul."
Known to play: Amorphus, Mithaniel, Raven & Radiant
Cast of 2009: Amorphus, Ash, Cyric, Godstone, Kessel, Prowl, Mithaniel, Radiant, Raven, Strale, Void & Vorell
Cast of 2010: Amorphus, Aqueous, Blaen, Godstone, Hex, Kessel, Mithaniel, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Vanderlaine & Void
Cast of 2011: Cyric, Hex & Prowl
Cast of 2012: Kessel
Cast of 2013: Amorphus, Golgari, Kessel, Marimar, Radiant, Strale & "Terry"
Cast of 2014: Amorphus, Hex, Godstone, Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Radiant & Strale
Cast of 2015: Amorphus, Karador, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2016: Zaton
Cast of 2017: Amorphus, Godstone, Golgari, Hex, Karador, Prowl, Radiant, Variel & Zaton.
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fatteacher
post Jan 16 2014, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE(Hulud @ Jan 16 2014, 10:15 PM) *
I'm pretty sure the biggest weight requirement anything in the system requires is 15 stone...and I ask you sir, what kind of self respecting (real mans) roleplaying nerd is less than 15 stone?


'Evolution' says 'appears at least 20 stone' & my wife has said 'no' to this. I was almost there too!!


--------------------
Andy

......................................
Godric Snowsson - Ice Mana Knight / Warrior 5k
Ginkgo Panama (aka 'Dead Man Walking') - Kensai 3.3k
Grandbow - Human Spirit Warrior - 750pts
Noyen Nopac Zu - Snake Clan Monk 1.9k

'It can't rain all the time!'
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fatteacher
post Jan 16 2014, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE(Gordon @ Jan 16 2014, 10:23 PM) *
Might be easiest to simply multiclass white warlock right off but apply for 1st Colour "Cold" rather than white and specify what glyphs it gives you and perhaps include things like Javelin of Ice, Pact with the Winter Dragon, Frostbrand in your base spells.

Or a cold based sorceror perhaps.


Want to still use shield, chainmail & sword though! That was why I thought power warrior style was way to go.


--------------------
Andy

......................................
Godric Snowsson - Ice Mana Knight / Warrior 5k
Ginkgo Panama (aka 'Dead Man Walking') - Kensai 3.3k
Grandbow - Human Spirit Warrior - 750pts
Noyen Nopac Zu - Snake Clan Monk 1.9k

'It can't rain all the time!'
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Ryan
post Jan 16 2014, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE(fatteacher @ Jan 16 2014, 11:04 PM) *
'Evolution' says 'appears at least 20 stone' & my wife has said 'no' to this. I was almost there too!!


Frost giant was changed to Northern man or something like that and now says are regularly of large build - in short they got rid of size based restrictions on frost giant!

As for apps I seem to struggle playing anything at the moment until I've written 4 sheets - I think I like to know the character will have some mileage, or I like the colour purple... I don't really know!
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Ryan
post Jan 16 2014, 11:09 PM
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I wish I had meant in short to be as amusing as it was when I read it back :-/
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Gordon
post Jan 16 2014, 11:10 PM
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Warlocks can use a shield.

Warlocks can wear chainmail (just they have a metal limit for spell casting).

You could write a tradition that gives you Metal Tolerance to allow Chainmail.

Gives you a cold based "ley believer" style ability and gives you the empower weapon grimoire glyph (white/cold) from 1st level of m/c warlock.


--------------------
Gordon Court
"The man with the barbwire soul."
Known to play: Amorphus, Mithaniel, Raven & Radiant
Cast of 2009: Amorphus, Ash, Cyric, Godstone, Kessel, Prowl, Mithaniel, Radiant, Raven, Strale, Void & Vorell
Cast of 2010: Amorphus, Aqueous, Blaen, Godstone, Hex, Kessel, Mithaniel, Prowl, Radiant, Shadowmoss, Vanderlaine & Void
Cast of 2011: Cyric, Hex & Prowl
Cast of 2012: Kessel
Cast of 2013: Amorphus, Golgari, Kessel, Marimar, Radiant, Strale & "Terry"
Cast of 2014: Amorphus, Hex, Godstone, Golgari, Ink-Eyes, Radiant & Strale
Cast of 2015: Amorphus, Karador, Radiant, Strale & Zaton
Cast of 2016: Zaton
Cast of 2017: Amorphus, Godstone, Golgari, Hex, Karador, Prowl, Radiant, Variel & Zaton.
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Carlo
post Jan 17 2014, 07:18 AM
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QUOTE(fatteacher @ Jan 16 2014, 11:04 PM) *
'Evolution' says 'appears at least 20 stone' & my wife has said 'no' to this. I was almost there too!!


Key word there is 'appears to be'. If you're 6 foot, just pad yourself out with 'big' costume, use layers etc.

Carlo
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fatteacher
post Jan 17 2014, 08:55 AM
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Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Depending on YP cost I think I will put in two versions. One with warlock base idea & another with power warrior base idea.
To fit the role play is it normally expected or advised to add in prerequisites and conditions eg immune to fire cost x% more?

Thanks again

Andy


--------------------
Andy

......................................
Godric Snowsson - Ice Mana Knight / Warrior 5k
Ginkgo Panama (aka 'Dead Man Walking') - Kensai 3.3k
Grandbow - Human Spirit Warrior - 750pts
Noyen Nopac Zu - Snake Clan Monk 1.9k

'It can't rain all the time!'
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Keyth
post Jan 17 2014, 11:25 AM
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QUOTE(fatteacher @ Jan 17 2014, 08:55 AM) *
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Depending on YP cost I think I will put in two versions. One with warlock base idea & another with power warrior base idea.
To fit the role play is it normally expected or advised to add in prerequisites and conditions eg immune to fire cost x% more?

Thanks again

Andy


In my fairly limited experience of YP, putting in restrictions will serve to lower the cost where they make sense and are not trivial. Giving up guild slots, item restrictions, that sort of thing are pretty common. For a quick example, I put together a tradition for a Circle-trained Rovfugr. To keep the costs down and to fit the character and justification, I included an item restriction (what with the Circle being a bit wary about that sort of thing) and a conditioned heart-stop if he ever willingly worked against the Circle.


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Alasdair
post Jan 17 2014, 05:43 PM
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There are a few simple options for the cold-based warrior idea...

... you could stay standard and go Elder Fey (though that is limited... and you lose 1/2 spirit); or Primal Soul (eg Arctic Fox) and perhaps apply for some non-standard physical cold 'powers' in place of the published.

... As a non-standard Multirace:

the Ogre Magi template suits remoulding to cold base. This would then be purchasable from 1000pts. You could probably just about (depending on how far you've played the character) write this as level one is a base race change, purchasable immediately with L2+ on Table 8 (1000pts). If you 'base race' (or class) change then you are looking at flavour rather than power... typically a few points for some 'tweaks' rather than strong abilities in L1. A make up restriction is a pretty standard 'cost' too.

Winter Barbarian offers another template to explore here (standardly for winter elves only). Applying for Winter Barbarian - as Winter Elf Warrior MR except: L1 half spirit + make up restriction + also gains winter elf innates by level (which can be increased as tables post-6th).



... you could multi-class.

I'd imagine a warlock base with tweaks would sort you out quite well: white but loses all 'light' spells, and gains X Y Z published 'grimoire' cold spells, but in return avoids a metal restriction. Warlocks don't initially get 'read glyphs' either, so you don't have to learn them for the thinking encounters (unless you buy post 6th). A few other restrictions jump out: may never learn fire-based red glyphs (ex resist fire)? The advantage of this approach is you have a good, standard buy-as and one that allows you to do a lot over time... mana is flexible (vs innates) and learning a new glyph or two can significantly change the character - eg, ice-based rockskin, freeze (s) [immune flesh & blood & bruising for 5 mins]

You could also do this as a Sorcerer base. It'd probably be a bit more expensive (since you get more mana), and lead you to write more yellow paper later - since the class is even less standard, so expanding abilities later will be too.

You could go Power Warrior, but it is a bit of a hybrid anyway, and the buy-as is a bit bastardised. All it really gives you is the route into buying their signature ability of empower armour... which is really really good, but not quite what you describe.


....And just in case,

Multirace undead (Wight) is cold based (ish). This is another standard route that you could 'tweak' if it served your purposes.


Finally, you can go completely bespoke. Chances are this will be more expensive, but if you have a really distinct concept, it is probably the only way. Use this forum to post and shape ideas.... but start with a good concept description first!


Alasdair

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fatteacher
post Jan 17 2014, 11:43 PM
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Thanks Alasdair, your ideas gave me loads to think about. I'm still thinking about two YPs to see what works best. It would be my first ever and the learning curve would be worth the investment.

Your cold based warlock had been my first idea but was worried about metal restriction. Do innates cause TBLP when used as casting damage on top of battle damage was worrying me for mana casting.

I like the bespoke idea & have a bunch of logical prerequisites that could be used for both.
Skin & hair colour becoming more white through the levels as white mana infuses body.
Must have Immunity to cold before level 1
May never have any red mana, innates or items
Maybe immunity to Freeze before level 4

In return, for the bespoke Ice Master
Lvl1 Ice Skin - +1 innate PAC & MAC at all times. Will absorb 12 points of fire damage pt for pt but Ice Skin takes 1 hour to reform
Lvl2 Snowball x1/2lvl
Lvl3 Slip x1/3lvl
Lvl4 Wall of Ice x1/3lvl + Greater Ice Skin - as Ice Skin but +2 innate PAC & MAC & will absorb 24 points fire before 'melting' for one hour
Lvl5 javelin of Ice x1/3lvl
Lvl6 Ice Blade (as Plasma Blade) x1/3lvl
Buy further Cold based mana innates post 6th level

I've tried to fit abilities to the character as well as prerequisites. Have already worked out a back story for Godric & using parts in character.

What do people think please? Happy to write back story for you.

Thank you

Andy


--------------------
Andy

......................................
Godric Snowsson - Ice Mana Knight / Warrior 5k
Ginkgo Panama (aka 'Dead Man Walking') - Kensai 3.3k
Grandbow - Human Spirit Warrior - 750pts
Noyen Nopac Zu - Snake Clan Monk 1.9k

'It can't rain all the time!'
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fatteacher
post Jan 20 2014, 10:50 AM
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Ok, after lots of advice down caves on Saturday I am looking into separate MC & MR.
Both would be interlinked so is there an issue with having your MC & MR with the same name?
Racial abilities etc from MR but because of race develops the ability to take specialist MC?

I'm thinking 'Ice Mana Knight'.
Do prerequisites, 'must...' and 'may never...' Count towards lines & characters on YP? I feel these & character back story would lead to better role play & justification.


--------------------
Andy

......................................
Godric Snowsson - Ice Mana Knight / Warrior 5k
Ginkgo Panama (aka 'Dead Man Walking') - Kensai 3.3k
Grandbow - Human Spirit Warrior - 750pts
Noyen Nopac Zu - Snake Clan Monk 1.9k

'It can't rain all the time!'
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AndyWashington
post Jan 20 2014, 12:31 PM
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The multi-class/race template just says may not exceed one side rather than number of lines. The pre-reqs and restrictions are part of the class so have to go in the body of the text but you could always put your back story in the accompanying email to Phil rather than taking up too much space on the sheet.

Andy
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fatteacher
post Jan 20 2014, 01:17 PM
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Cheers for that Andy. The bit before the download says max of 15 lines no smaller than 12pt font size.
Any idea how much for each & when to pay if you ask for PDF return?
I'm going to take a punt at a linked MR & MC and see what comes back. Best way to learn eh?
MC is straightforward (& a bit too similar to a cavalier idea also on the forum) but fits the way I have been playing the character so far & my thoughts for his future.
The MR is partly built, but I have restrictions quite clear.

Ta much.

Andy


--------------------
Andy

......................................
Godric Snowsson - Ice Mana Knight / Warrior 5k
Ginkgo Panama (aka 'Dead Man Walking') - Kensai 3.3k
Grandbow - Human Spirit Warrior - 750pts
Noyen Nopac Zu - Snake Clan Monk 1.9k

'It can't rain all the time!'
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