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> Chains of lightning upgrade, The standard ability cost/table/name ++
Alasdair
post May 18 2011, 12:30 PM
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There is a newly published blue wiz ability to upgrade 'Chains of Lightning' (removing the 1/10s restriction). Please would a kind someone let me know that ability name, cost and table?

I've also looked into a 'lightning mage' MC, and was a bit disappointed at the result (cost) - upgrading from "specialisation, lightning bolt" to increase range for lightning glyphs, reduce cost of purchase of all lightning innates (inc published 'advanced' ones), and improving chains of lightning. Are there any 'standard non standard' upgrades out there, that I can consider and maybe build from before I MC? (Other than restarting as a fire mage...)

Obviously this is for a blue mage (I've also second coloured silver).

All help appreciated!

Alasdair
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Rob
post May 18 2011, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE(Alasdair @ May 18 2011, 12:30 PM) *
There is a newly published blue wiz ability to upgrade 'Chains of Lightning' (removing the 1/10s restriction). Please would a kind someone let me know that ability name, cost and table?

I've also looked into a 'lightning mage' MC, and was a bit disappointed at the result (cost) - upgrading from "specialisation, lightning bolt" to increase range for lightning glyphs, reduce cost of purchase of all lightning innates (inc published 'advanced' ones), and improving chains of lightning. Are there any 'standard non standard' upgrades out there, that I can consider and maybe build from before I MC? (Other than restarting as a fire mage...)

Obviously this is for a blue mage (I've also second coloured silver).

All help appreciated!

Alasdair



Alasdair - I have an awesome lightening MC for my druid which would transfer pretty easily. PM me your email and I will send it over.

Rob


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LucyH
post May 18 2011, 12:43 PM
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QUOTE(Alasdair @ May 18 2011, 01:30 PM) *
There is a newly published blue wiz ability to upgrade 'Chains of Lightning' (removing the 1/10s restriction). Please would a kind someone let me know that ability name, cost and table?

I've also looked into a 'lightning mage' MC, and was a bit disappointed at the result (cost) - upgrading from "specialisation, lightning bolt" to increase range for lightning glyphs, reduce cost of purchase of all lightning innates (inc published 'advanced' ones), and improving chains of lightning. Are there any 'standard non standard' upgrades out there, that I can consider and maybe build from before I MC? (Other than restarting as a fire mage...)

Obviously this is for a blue mage (I've also second coloured silver).

All help appreciated!

Alasdair


Spell mastery: Stormcaller. IIRC T:10, 50ish points. Might be T:9 - there's a spell mastery for each handbook colour.

I've got an upgrade passed
Temper Tantrum, 80pts 1/day, allows me to cast Stormcaller as lightning bolts, but it doesn't stack with the spell mastery above.

Lucy



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Rob
post May 18 2011, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE(LucyH @ May 18 2011, 12:43 PM) *
Spell mastery: Stormcaller. IIRC T:10, 50ish points. Might be T:9 - there's a spell mastery for each handbook colour.

I've got an upgrade passed
Temper Tantrum, 80pts 1/day, allows me to cast Stormcaller as lightning bolts, but it doesn't stack with the spell mastery above.

Lucy



I have just found it

T8 40 points - spell mastery storm caller

Rob


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DavidFisher
post May 18 2011, 01:33 PM
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1. From 4 innate stormblasts - these return at 1 per 10 mins - 60
2. From 4 innate thunderclaps - these return at 1 per 30 mins - 80
3. From 4 innate lightening bolts - these return at 1 per hour - 100
4. Double range on all "strom" spells - 100
5. 1/day lightening bolt at will, 1 TBLP per bolt, 1 target only, 1 min duration (might have been 30 secs) - 150
6. Immunity to disbeneficial storm powers - 150

640 points

For a faerie blue / brown high wizard (which is where I got the innates from)

Double ranges is awesome, the returning innates work out at 34 mana an hour which is also pretty good

David
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Jan
post May 18 2011, 04:20 PM
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David,

Thats an incredibly good MC, the returning power ability puts my 150pts 1MP/hour moded by meditation rates to complete shame! The 60pts for 6 Stormblasts an hour is absolutely fantastic!

What other prerequistes did you have to get it passed?


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MarkCox
post May 18 2011, 04:22 PM
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I'll point out that it was passed by Bruno and I said if David ever played the character I would x@##x it, he has since respawned it.

MCC


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DavidFisher
post May 18 2011, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE(MarkCox @ May 18 2011, 05:22 PM) *
I'll point out that it was passed by Bruno and I said if David ever played the character I would x@##x it, he has since respawned it.

MCC


To be fair I did play a number of times after you became GSM but basically got bored with the character (mainly due to the 600 mana and 400 mana in innates that came back very quickly...)

Prerequisites that I can think of...

1. Ley Member of Elbereth
2. Do a lot of Elbereth adventures

(This is mainly a joke*)

Other reasons to respwan included - med in 15 second blocks, only FX by magic (took my MR slot - 275 points, from my only be killed by magic from rebirth), retro-active gaseous forms and blinks, snap casts, cast even when dead, uber dancing sword abilities (wield while in earthmeld...), know every location on all planes for plane shift and teleport, danger sense of shifting, mass magical word of recall on allies and many more

Reasons not to rebirth - blink eyeballs... hmmm...

David







* but true!
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Alasdair
post May 19 2011, 09:12 AM
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Thanks all!

Not sure I aspire to the 1000 mana of Su, but grateful to all for the thoughts. Particularly like the 1/d upgrade of stormcaller to lightning bolts.

40pts T8 for spell mastery storm caller it is... I'll finish current MC then see where I can take this.

Alasdair
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PhilB
post May 19 2011, 09:19 AM
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QUOTE(DavidFisher @ May 18 2011, 02:33 PM) *
1. From 4 innate stormblasts - these return at 1 per 10 mins - 60
2. From 4 innate thunderclaps - these return at 1 per 30 mins - 80
3. From 4 innate lightening bolts - these return at 1 per hour - 100
4. Double range on all "strom" spells - 100
5. 1/day lightening bolt at will, 1 TBLP per bolt, 1 target only, 1 min duration (might have been 30 secs) - 150
6. Immunity to disbeneficial storm powers - 150

640 points

For a faerie blue / brown high wizard (which is where I got the innates from)

Double ranges is awesome, the returning innates work out at 34 mana an hour which is also pretty good

David

past performance is no guarantee of the future. Remeber the value of points app can go down as well as up. wink.gif

I am glad the character is respawned... saves me some work with the pen of change... smile.gif

Phil.
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JulianW
post May 19 2011, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE(DavidFisher @ May 18 2011, 02:33 PM) *
1. From 4 innate stormblasts - these return at 1 per 10 mins - 60
2. From 4 innate thunderclaps - these return at 1 per 30 mins - 80
3. From 4 innate lightening bolts - these return at 1 per hour - 100
4. Double range on all "strom" spells - 100
5. 1/day lightening bolt at will, 1 TBLP per bolt, 1 target only, 1 min duration (might have been 30 secs) - 150
6. Immunity to disbeneficial storm powers - 150

640 points

For a faerie blue / brown high wizard (which is where I got the innates from)

Double ranges is awesome, the returning innates work out at 34 mana an hour which is also pretty good

David


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that whilst this stuff is really nice I don't actually think it is at all unreasonable for a high points blasting wizard to have.

People have rushed to say this is unbalanced compared to what other offensive characters have, but I think this just highlights how characters that use offensive effects suffer compared to those who use self affecting power-ups (so bolting wizards / causing priests / mystics / harm field druids)

That lot translates to -
6 stormblasts, 2 thunderclaps, 1 lightning bolt per hour.
The thunderclaps will take out a couple of wave monsters by allowing the party warriors to surround them and batter them.
The stormblasts and lightning bolts add up to 32 hits - equivalent to killing one or two monsters at most.

So he can take out the equivalent of 3-4 wave monsters in an hour without using up power. Hardly that earthshaking.

Lightning bolt @ will for 1 minute - compare that to having stormcaller and the upgrade - works out as about equivalent to 1 innate stormcaller.

Julian


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BBB
post May 19 2011, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE(JulianW @ May 19 2011, 10:48 AM) *
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that whilst this stuff is really nice I don't actually think it is at all unreasonable for a high points blasting wizard to have.

People have rushed to say this is unbalanced compared to what other offensive characters have, but I think this just highlights how characters that use offensive effects suffer compared to those who use self affecting power-ups (so bolting wizards / causing priests / mystics / harm field druids)

That lot translates to -
6 stormblasts, 2 thunderclaps, 1 lightning bolt per hour.
The thunderclaps will take out a couple of wave monsters by allowing the party warriors to surround them and batter them.
The stormblasts and lightning bolts add up to 32 hits - equivalent to killing one or two monsters at most.

So he can take out the equivalent of 3-4 wave monsters in an hour without using up power. Hardly that earthshaking.

Lightning bolt @ will for 1 minute - compare that to having stormcaller and the upgrade - works out as about equivalent to 1 innate stormcaller.

Julian


Having monstered a myths when David played said character I'm going to have to generally agree. Basically every once in a while he got to blow something up effectively but really I don't think it was ever a problem.

I'll also go out on a limb annd say that its easier to monster fairly for than for say someone able to cast a lesser offensive spell at will just for counting hits whilst being struck.

BBB


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dnsmantra
post May 19 2011, 11:19 AM
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Adding my agreement to the throng. I think generally it's about right, and blasty type stuff is mostly over-costed compared to the actual bang you get for your buck; mostly noted by the dullest damaging spells (chains of fire, etc.) are by the far the most used and most effective. This is basically a little sad.

Huw
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Alasdair
post May 19 2011, 12:37 PM
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QUOTE(dnsmantra @ May 19 2011, 12:19 PM) *
Adding my agreement to the throng. I think generally it's about right, and blasty type stuff is mostly over-costed compared to the actual bang you get for your buck; mostly noted by the dullest damaging spells (chains of fire, etc.) are by the far the most used and most effective. This is basically a little sad.

Huw



So, as Huw is reffing the June 4d I plan to play my blue wiz on, I'm wondering whether to spend the points instead on MC warrior and doing quad....

If you want to be tough, have an O-wpn and shield, buy life and resistances and get a mantic weapon. But if you want to roleplay...

Thanks all!
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BBB
post May 19 2011, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE(Alasdair @ May 19 2011, 01:37 PM) *
So, as Huw is reffing the June 4d I plan to play my blue wiz on, I'm wondering whether to spend the points instead on MC warrior and doing quad....

If you want to be tough, have an O-wpn and shield, buy life and resistances and get a mantic weapon. But if you want to roleplay...

Thanks all!


Being an offensive power user has always been a very difficult thing to do well.

Its easier to be a support / power-up power user than a directly offensive one. Its just the way the system works.

Its very difficult to get an effective balanced caster that can deal with encounters with out being unbalancing.

BBB


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DavidFisher
post May 19 2011, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE(JulianW @ May 19 2011, 10:48 AM) *
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that whilst this stuff is really nice I don't actually think it is at all unreasonable for a high points blasting wizard to have.

People have rushed to say this is unbalanced compared to what other offensive characters have, but I think this just highlights how characters that use offensive effects suffer compared to those who use self affecting power-ups (so bolting wizards / causing priests / mystics / harm field druids)

That lot translates to -
6 stormblasts, 2 thunderclaps, 1 lightning bolt per hour.
The thunderclaps will take out a couple of wave monsters by allowing the party warriors to surround them and batter them.
The stormblasts and lightning bolts add up to 32 hits - equivalent to killing one or two monsters at most.

So he can take out the equivalent of 3-4 wave monsters in an hour without using up power. Hardly that earthshaking.

Lightning bolt @ will for 1 minute - compare that to having stormcaller and the upgrade - works out as about equivalent to 1 innate stormcaller.

Julian


Yer - what Julian said!
Actually a really well written email that I hope Phil takes on board when looking at the points cost of things.
David
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JulianW
post May 19 2011, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE(dnsmantra @ May 19 2011, 12:19 PM) *
Adding my agreement to the throng. I think generally it's about right, and blasty type stuff is mostly over-costed compared to the actual bang you get for your buck; mostly noted by the dullest damaging spells (chains of fire, etc.) are by the far the most used and most effective. This is basically a little sad.

Huw


Note that chains of fire is basically a power-up spell.

Julian


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Rob
post May 19 2011, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE(DavidFisher @ May 19 2011, 01:11 PM) *
Yer - what Julian said!
Actually a really well written email that I hope Phil takes on board when looking at the points cost of things.
David



I agree

Warriors do (at least) quad all day...

Rob


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miles
post May 19 2011, 01:26 PM
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Well i am playing an offensive priest on the 4 day lets see how it goes, when i have to make power last a lot longer.

miles


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Alasdair
post May 19 2011, 04:39 PM
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I did a Myths once with a major sphere Force pure priest... Spirit Bolt / Bolt / Bolt / Bolt was very limiting, until everyone got in on the act and supported him... with the equivalent of the "warriors doing heroic blows" roleplay... monsters taking visible effect, and a Myths item that built around this with 'even bigger' and 'even even bigger' bolt effects.

That'd never happen on a shorter dungeon, unless with a closed group.

Happy times.
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