IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Captain Laneroy Storm, Judgment
duncanmatthias
post Sep 1 2018, 09:10 AM
Post #1


Hero
*******

Group: Administrators
Posts: 2,106
Joined: 29-November 07
From: Tonbridge, Kent
Member No.: 188



My findings are fairly simple In the case of Captain Storm.

The only punishment that can be levied on a Knight of the Land is to cast them out of the order, (with varying consequences). This can only be done for the following reasons.

• You must not harm knights directly or indirectly and are required to help each other to the extent of sharing all equipment during an adventure, acting honourably and without treachery at any time.
• A knight will never hide his membership as it is a thing to be proud of.
• If a fellow knight is left behind on an adventure, dead or alive: If this does happen then the Lord Knight and Imrazil will then discuss if this warrants casting out or not.
• At the beginning of each adventure each knight must announce his presence by clearly and audibly affirming his oath:

I find that Captain Laneroy Storm, was not guilty of any of the above. Whilst it is apparent that the Captain did transport away, the knights left had another way home, and were not in any danger, the campaign on Sothak was won, and frankly leaving a night out early from a Deci tavern would leave you brother knights in more danger.

Castiel
Lord Unity
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Abel
post Sep 1 2018, 04:35 PM
Post #2


Hero
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,317
Joined: 27-August 09
From: Harlow, Essex
Member No.: 1,166



If the reports were to be believed, He most certainly did act with treachery and dishonour in surreptitiously telling no-one of his his plan to murder one of his group and then ambushing the fellow by dumping him in the oceans water rather than facing the man and dealing with it directly.

Perhaps a revisit of the evidence is required?

Xeno
Knight Captain of the Flashblade Guard


--------------------
Jules
Seth/800 Blades - 9109 - Pure Priest/Budoka/White Wizard
Kazan Toshimoko - 8215 Council Yojimbo
Xeno - 5008 - Ivory Warrior/Wizard
Dipp - 3880 - Awakener (Comms based)
Sosen Oku - 2170 - Jade Dragon Shaman (Bene/Healing)
Harijan - 1534 - Outcast Drowe Scout
Druzil - 1149 - Kharmic Sidhe Artificer
Sheltered Grove - 415 Wood Elf High Druid
Lt Benjamin Ford - Nightsoil Grey Knight
-
Abel - RIP (21/08/15)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
duncanmatthias
post Sep 1 2018, 04:41 PM
Post #3


Hero
*******

Group: Administrators
Posts: 2,106
Joined: 29-November 07
From: Tonbridge, Kent
Member No.: 188



This was a statement not a discussion opener,

Treachery and dishonour you will notice are not within the points above.

Castiel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dave
post Sep 1 2018, 05:23 PM
Post #4


Hero
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,335
Joined: 23-November 07
From: Petts Wood
Member No.: 62



Are we no longer allowed to ask and discuss? Whilst we will indeed respect your discussion, aren't we allowed to pose questions?

He may not of betrayed or harmed a Knight directly, but i believe he has weakened the name of the Knights with a cowardly action that was clearly planned and thought out. Now people will question the Knights way of thinking... People will say 'oh they'll leave me behind because i'm not a knight'....

You must not harm knights directly or indirectly and are required to help each other to the extent of sharing all equipment during an adventure, acting honourably and without treachery at any time.

This statement refers to Knights, whilst i agree with it, surely we must look to change, to broaden this to mean all people who help. Eythor had done nothing wrong for 4 days, a miss timed use his power, and that he deserves to die for? I do not think this is the case.

I do not agree with this judgement, if we had not the power to save Eythor from certain death, Laneroy would of murdered another mercenary, just because he failed doesn't mean he done nothing wrong.

Malcolm


--------------------
16 odd years since Chernobyl disaster, is it only me annoyed by no super heroes yet?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
OxMatt
post Sep 1 2018, 05:29 PM
Post #5


Hero
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,531
Joined: 23-November 07
From: Oxford
Member No.: 48



I do not understand Castiel, necessarily, to be saying that the person involved has done nothing wrong. Merely that he has not breached the Knight's Code such that he should be cast out. The concept of morality and law are, as ever, not the same thing.

If individual Knights wish to petition to change the Knight's code such that it becomes more restrictive, that is perhaps a different matter than Castiel's judgment, based as it is on the current code.

Ignatius
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Netheril
post Sep 1 2018, 05:36 PM
Post #6


Militiaman
****

Group: Members
Posts: 562
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Sep 1 2018, 05:41 PM) *
This was a statement not a discussion opener,

Treachery and dishonour you will notice are not within the points above.

Castiel


I must add my agreement to those above. Specifically treachery and dishonour ARE listed in the criteria for judgement that you copied from the charter. As they should be.

We are expected to “act honourably and without treachery at all times.”

From the second hand reports I have read, I can’t see how the behaviour that occurred befits the knights. It does nothing but brings dishonour, and at the very least should be condemned as such.

Sirac Drakeson
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
duncanmatthias
post Sep 1 2018, 05:45 PM
Post #7


Hero
*******

Group: Administrators
Posts: 2,106
Joined: 29-November 07
From: Tonbridge, Kent
Member No.: 188



QUOTE(Dave @ Sep 1 2018, 06:23 PM) *
Are we no longer allowed to ask and discuss? Whilst we will indeed respect your discussion, aren't we allowed to pose questions?

He may not of betrayed or harmed a Knight directly, but i believe he has weakened the name of the Knights with a cowardly action that was clearly planned and thought out. Now people will question the Knights way of thinking... People will say 'oh they'll leave me behind because i'm not a knight'....

You must not harm knights directly or indirectly and are required to help each other to the extent of sharing all equipment during an adventure, acting honourably and without treachery at any time.

This statement refers to Knights, whilst i agree with it, surely we must look to change, to broaden this to mean all people who help. Eythor had done nothing wrong for 4 days, a miss timed use his power, and that he deserves to die for? I do not think this is the case.

I do not agree with this judgement, if we had not the power to save Eythor from certain death, Laneroy would of murdered another mercenary, just because he failed doesn't mean he done nothing wrong.

Malcolm


I would agree with your statements above. I remember it being “discussed” during election debates. I agree that we should all behave in a knightly way all of the time.

Understand this however, I have been assigned to judge, I can only judge it on the fact.

The real question should be should it be discussed with the Lord Knight and other knights if we should have something honour binding against rare non-knightly behaviour

Castiel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
duncanmatthias
post Sep 1 2018, 05:46 PM
Post #8


Hero
*******

Group: Administrators
Posts: 2,106
Joined: 29-November 07
From: Tonbridge, Kent
Member No.: 188



QUOTE(OxMatt @ Sep 1 2018, 06:29 PM) *
I do not understand Castiel, necessarily, to be saying that the person involved has done nothing wrong. Merely that he has not breached the Knight's Code such that he should be cast out. The concept of morality and law are, as ever, not the same thing.

If individual Knights wish to petition to change the Knight's code such that it becomes more restrictive, that is perhaps a different matter than Castiel's judgment, based as it is on the current code.

Ignatius


Correct. Very wise old friend.

Castiel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
duncanmatthias
post Sep 1 2018, 05:51 PM
Post #9


Hero
*******

Group: Administrators
Posts: 2,106
Joined: 29-November 07
From: Tonbridge, Kent
Member No.: 188



QUOTE(Netheril @ Sep 1 2018, 06:36 PM) *
I must add my agreement to those above. Specifically treachery and dishonour ARE listed in the criteria for judgement that you copied from the charter. As they should be.

We are expected to “act honourably and without treachery at all times.”

From the second hand reports I have read, I can’t see how the behaviour that occurred befits the knights. It does nothing but brings dishonour, and at the very least should be condemned as such.

Sirac Drakeson


They are listed in our believes. We are an honourable order. But specifically I do not see the above having been breeched.

I suspect this public discussion, condemns his actions, and maybe will give Captain Storm food for thought.

Castiel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bendy
post Sep 1 2018, 06:53 PM
Post #10


Levy
***

Group: Members
Posts: 197
Joined: 11-March 16
Member No.: 4,749



QUOTE(Netheril @ Sep 1 2018, 06:36 PM) *
I must add my agreement to those above. Specifically treachery and dishonour ARE listed in the criteria for judgement that you copied from the charter. As they should be.

We are expected to “act honourably and without treachery at all times.”

From the second hand reports I have read, I can’t see how the behaviour that occurred befits the knights. It does nothing but brings dishonour, and at the very least should be condemned as such.

Sirac Drakeson


You read our code like me good man, I believe the knights should act honourably at all times, not just with fellow knights. I thought this was clear but apparantly not as it now seems alright to make sure my fellow knights are fine then try and murder some upstanding bloke who annoyed me.

Expel me if you want but this Laneroy aint no brother of mine. He's a disgrace to what I believe are the knights of the land and he sullies our order with his very presence.

Gathran
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MattWest
post Sep 1 2018, 07:16 PM
Post #11


Hero
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,403
Joined: 15-August 08
Member No.: 653



Our laws have stood for a long time so we should be slow to change them.

Apparently Lannary felt provoked and Aythor had in fact affected him with an Unholy Word albeit several Primal heartbeats previously. So Lannary may not be the best example of a reason to change our laws. He was very Knightly up until that point in all his actions I was aware of.

However we could consider adding:- "Any Knight who brings the Order into disrepute among mercenaries by acting with blatant, gratuitous, grossly dishonourable and deliberate treachery, even towards a non-Knight, during the course of a mission may be suspended from membership of the Knights of the Land for such period as may be determined by the Lord Knight with the advice and consent of at least two Heads of Orders."

Razil


--------------------


OOC:- Matt West

IC:- A. bin Razil of the Carrion Scavengers Hetyan (Ishmaic Onyx Wizard and Knight of the Land, suitable for a Max 1500); Yosh (monastically trained knife-thrower, suitable for a Max 2k, semi-retired); Hassan bin Kassim of the Perished Sands Hetyan (mage, suitable for a Max 1500); Haram of the Blackened Bones Hetyan (please smile for the crazy evil witch!) (suitable for a Max 750); Flaig (Pilgrim of the Forge, around the 500 mark, played on Borderwatch guild specials); "Murk" ('the Mercenary formerly known as "Sunflower"') (as featured in Primal Times No. 24) ("suitable" for a Max 1K, allegedly); Sahra bin Flambo of the Placid Waters Hetyan (290 points of fire and spear, plus any monster points; "Sahra" means "Desert"); various others


A longer version of this post is available on request.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bendy
post Sep 1 2018, 08:48 PM
Post #12


Levy
***

Group: Members
Posts: 197
Joined: 11-March 16
Member No.: 4,749



QUOTE(MattWest @ Sep 1 2018, 08:16 PM) *
Our laws have stood for a long time so we should be slow to change them.

Apparently Lannary felt provoked and Aythor had in fact affected him with an Unholy Word albeit several Primal heartbeats previously. So Lannary may not be the best example of a reason to change our laws. He was very Knightly up until that point in all his actions I was aware of.

However we could consider adding:- "Any Knight who brings the Order into disrepute among mercenaries by acting with blatant, gratuitous, grossly dishonourable and deliberate treachery, even towards a non-Knight, during the course of a mission may be suspended from membership of the Knights of the Land for such period as may be determined by the Lord Knight with the advice and consent of at least two Heads of Orders."

Razil


Commendable me lad but for one I don't think it matters just how 'knightly' someone is before committing a dishonorable act. I doubt that chap he tried to murder would feel it was alright because the knight who was trying to murder him had had been pretty knightly in the past.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Abel
post Sep 1 2018, 10:24 PM
Post #13


Hero
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,317
Joined: 27-August 09
From: Harlow, Essex
Member No.: 1,166



QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Sep 1 2018, 10:10 AM) *
• You must not harm knights directly or indirectly and are required to help each other to the extent of sharing all equipment during an adventure, acting honourably and without treachery at any time.

Castiel
Lord Unity

For Clarity and the sake of not being misunderstood, you stated this, and I am sure this is not intended to only apply towards Brother Knights, but infact any that we travel with should be treated with honour and without treachery, so to show and proper example of knightly conduct. Is this not true? Or does this only bind us to the rules within our own Order?

And if it is the case that this should apply in a broad fashion, the Captain Storm would indeed find himself in breach of the code.

Xeno


--------------------
Jules
Seth/800 Blades - 9109 - Pure Priest/Budoka/White Wizard
Kazan Toshimoko - 8215 Council Yojimbo
Xeno - 5008 - Ivory Warrior/Wizard
Dipp - 3880 - Awakener (Comms based)
Sosen Oku - 2170 - Jade Dragon Shaman (Bene/Healing)
Harijan - 1534 - Outcast Drowe Scout
Druzil - 1149 - Kharmic Sidhe Artificer
Sheltered Grove - 415 Wood Elf High Druid
Lt Benjamin Ford - Nightsoil Grey Knight
-
Abel - RIP (21/08/15)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
draco
post Sep 1 2018, 10:29 PM
Post #14


Heldsman
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 785
Joined: 22-July 08
From: Sidcup
Member No.: 598



Treat people how ye want to be treated.

Remember that most people are able to be redeemed but some folks are just [----]

Darren


--------------------
James Isteed

Isteed.Labyrinthe@outlook.com

(the big one)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
duncanmatthias
post Sep 2 2018, 12:49 AM
Post #15


Hero
*******

Group: Administrators
Posts: 2,106
Joined: 29-November 07
From: Tonbridge, Kent
Member No.: 188



QUOTE(Abel @ Sep 1 2018, 11:24 PM) *
For Clarity and the sake of not being misunderstood, you stated this, and I am sure this is not intended to only apply towards Brother Knights, but infact any that we travel with should be treated with honour and without treachery, so to show and proper example of knightly conduct. Is this not true? Or does this only bind us to the rules within our own Order?

And if it is the case that this should apply in a broad fashion, the Captain Storm would indeed find himself in breach of the code.

Xeno


I’m not going to continue to get drawn into this, that is not my nature. I will say this the punctuation suggests to me point 1 only applies to your brother knight you are with, not anyone else.

I will again state I am not saying I agree with the above mearly that it is fact.

I will additionally say had Imrazil felt strongly about it I am sure he would have acted.

Castiel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Abel
post Sep 2 2018, 10:11 PM
Post #16


Hero
*******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,317
Joined: 27-August 09
From: Harlow, Essex
Member No.: 1,166



Thank you for the clarification Lord Unity, my interest in this matter is sated.

Xeno


--------------------
Jules
Seth/800 Blades - 9109 - Pure Priest/Budoka/White Wizard
Kazan Toshimoko - 8215 Council Yojimbo
Xeno - 5008 - Ivory Warrior/Wizard
Dipp - 3880 - Awakener (Comms based)
Sosen Oku - 2170 - Jade Dragon Shaman (Bene/Healing)
Harijan - 1534 - Outcast Drowe Scout
Druzil - 1149 - Kharmic Sidhe Artificer
Sheltered Grove - 415 Wood Elf High Druid
Lt Benjamin Ford - Nightsoil Grey Knight
-
Abel - RIP (21/08/15)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th December 2018 - 08:28 AM
Original Darkness Skin Created by Danellis
Converted by Mdgshorty of New Horizon Skins