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Castiel - Labyrinthe Forum
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> Castiel
post Sep 27 2018, 09:00 PM
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Greetings Brothers and Sisters,

I scribe this message with a heavy heart, however I have given this a lot of thought and I need to say something on the matter. I am not going to beat around the bush as this is something that I hold quite dear to my heart.

It is my opinion that Castiel, our Lord Unity, cannot stay true to vows.

From my travels with him as Lord Knight and the mission we undertook recently I have had long enough to understand the kind of person that he is. I have heard his words and seen his actions, and I do not believe that they are fitting of a Knight of the Land. I was hoping that under Lord Amorphus's leadership, (which I am not bringing into disrepute here), this would change, unfortunately it has not.

Castiel is an Angel of St Micheal, by his very nature and his devotion to his faith he will always hold his religion above our Vows. He has made it very clear that this is the case. His complete devotion to Micheal means that he has an uncompromising outlook towards certain people or races.

I am aware that a group of Knights will be going to reclaim the Arc of Fire in Legend, with I believe the intentions of Castiel becoming the Lord of the Arc of Fire. I give warning that I do not think this is a safe plan. Castiel has made it clear that he will kill all demons regardless, unless his Lord Micheal would not command it. He walks that line of goodly devotion which can easily be mistaken for true evil as he feels no need to feel remorse for his actions, his first response is to murder any that he perceives to be against his view point. His words of "I do the evil that needs to be done, so that you dont have to" and the actions he backs this up with are not those of a Knight of the land. The fact that he was able to get an Angel of Shaehan to attack him by his own actions speaks for itself.

If it were possible I would hope that a different person would be able to take on the mantle of the Arc of Fire.

When other Knights are discovered for doing similar acts we would stand against them. Just because someone is a creature of good does not mean that they should have different rules.

If Castiel could change his behaviour then I would be more than happy to continue to call him a brother Knight, However until he agrees to do so, I do not see how he can remain within our Order.

Lord Amorphus I ask you to take some action from my words. I will respect your outcome regardless of what your decision is.

With regards,

Rufus.





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Netheril
post Sep 28 2018, 06:30 AM
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I consider Castiel one of my closest friends, and my views are coloured by that fact. But it also means I have probably travelled with him as much as any knight has over the last few years.

I joined the knights because of the example of people like Castiel and Tristan. To me they were the very embodiment of what it means to be a knight.

To say Castiel cannot stay true to his oaths is, I think, one of the worst things anyone could accuse him of. I can give numerous examples of times when he has done so, times when he has placed the knights oath above those of his nature as an archangel of Michael.

Including summoning an angel of another faith to resolve a dispute, because he knew Michael's angel would not have been appropriate. Including agreeing not to release a powerful angel because he recognised it would be a danger to the lands, and its people.

The problem, I fear, lies not in his ability to follow the oaths. If there is a problem, it lies within our oaths. Rufus seems to expect that the knights oath should come before all other considerations, including those of faith. The heart of his accusation seems to be that this is not the case for Castiel. Until recently, I held the same view of our oaths as Rufus. But in recent discussions, and my own ill fated attempt to suggest changes to our charter, it became obvious that it is not the case that we must place the knights oath above all other considerations. Despite the suggestion in our ethos this be the case, this is not something that we are bound to by our oaths and rules. It would not, for example, be cause for casting out as it breaks none of the current rules.

All the above is not to say that I do not understand exactly what Rufus is talking about. Especially since Anarchus's death, his amazing sacrifice for these lands and people, I have seen Castiel change, and become more...inflexible. I have seen both Castiel and Lord Amorphus do things I wholeheartedly disagreed with, and had a great deal of trouble reconciling with. But those probably reflect my own views of what the knights should be, rather than what they actually are.

But, for now anyway, I believe Rufus is trying to hold Castiel to a standard that we do not expect of our brothers and sisters. I for one would see that change, but have accepted for now that is not a commonly held desire.

The simple truth is that Castiel, by his very nature, adheres to any oath he swears more fully than most can ever claim to. If there is a flaw, it is in the oaths he has been asked to swear, not with him. And I have no doubt that so long as Castiel remains a knight he will do all he can, in his own view, to protect the lands and its people.

Sirac Drakeson
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duncanmatthias
post Sep 28 2018, 07:07 AM
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Well, well Rufus, I had not expected the dagger in my back to be placed there by you. I may joke with you about being one of my favourite knights and one of the few that haven’t abandoned me, but to me you were one of the few I could count on. A true knight and a true friend, but real betrayal can only come from those who you hold dear.

I as you say do not feel remorse for my actions, I also do not feel the need to defend them, however on this occasion I will mention a few things. Not for my sake, but for my brother Lord Amorphus. I feel if my actions are at least not explained a little, and he chooses not to act you and others may view him in an unfair and incorrect light.

The main bone of contention is regarding the slaying of an abishi and an archon. I acted quickly and without discussion. When I acted we had 13 minutes to stop the ritual of disease and an hour and thirteen minutes to stop the main ritual marking peoples souls and dragging them to hells where we had spent 3 days rescueing people. When we finally broke the ritual we had less than a minute before it completed. Did I act with all of the facts, yes. Did I do it for the good of hundreads and the land, yes. Would I do it again, in a heartbeat. The two dead where not mortals they were supernatural minions of their gods, killing them would have only sent them back.

Reason the angel did attack me, you are correct, but that is the same angel of mercy that had the day previous spent hours shouting at Henry Hope for killing demon worshipping peon sacrificing “bad’uns” so is his opinion to be taken into account. How many people have not died since because Henry ignored him and acted.

One final point for you, if you think I follow blind faith and do whatever I want in the name of religion I would urge you to talk to Lord Neko Panama, her words meant when we traveled to the shadow lands together on the starsday night and met a group of demons who protect her lands and it’s people by there own choice and free will I did not kill them, I walked away leaving them to do the good they do for Amlas.

Castiel
Lord Unity
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Dave
post Sep 28 2018, 07:15 AM
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.


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miles
post Sep 28 2018, 09:30 AM
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I am a young knight new to the order and have not met anyone involved but i always thought religion but nothing else came before the knights oath, if you are suggesting that the knights oath should come above everything then I cannot see how any priest of a faith could stay in the knights, along with others who hold the dragons in similar esteem.

William Sommers


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Sarah
post Sep 28 2018, 09:53 AM
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Oh hecks....this not trues is its, i beens in Knights sinces the early days, so nows i gone downs the nicey paths, are you sayings
i cant be a knights, aints thats all a bits backwards....
Knightsy is all abouts worskinsg togethers to defends the Lands, despite religiony and politiccy complificationies, ands whever yous iz
of darks or lights... sometimes the Lightsy needs the Darksy and sometiems the Darksy needs the Lightsy...

Am i okays to be Knightsy still, I St Michael follower nows, but Iz stills loves you All....i thinks we all need Tea and fairy cakes, yes nothing
like a fairy cakes to solves issues ....
And Castiel is great, he a bit direct and all that but at leasts you knows what he is up to, i not seen him do anythings wrongs,

Tweegle



QUOTE(miles @ Sep 28 2018, 10:30 AM) *
I am a young knight new to the order and have not met anyone involved but i always thought religion but nothing else came before the knights oath, if you are suggesting that the knights oath should come above everything then I cannot see how any priest of a faith could stay in the knights, along with others who hold the dragons in similar esteem.

William Sommers



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Stuart
post Sep 28 2018, 10:20 AM
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I thought we changed the rules about religion coming first as it meant people could hide amongst our ranks and get away with anything claiming it was their religion.

Castiel should be judged by what he actually does, not what he claims he might do or who he might appear to be. Kei Ry would have been cast out years ago if he actually lived up to his reputation. We elected the Lord Knight and if he trusts Castiel, that’s fine with me.

But it’s also fine for Rufus to raise concerns, and I’d expect Knights to be honest with each other just as he’s been, and also to abide by the decision that’s made just as he’s promised to do. We’re all pretty grown up and can take reasonable criticism and comment about ourselves.

Concern raised, Lord Knight aware, other people lodging character statements, seems like it’s time to stand back and let the decision be made.

Marik

(P..S. In my opinion he’s an angel and by definition bad for Primus, but for the moment can be tolerated so long as he gets rid of the things out there which are worse. I’ve said the same about a lot of Knights and expect my opinion to receive the same due consideration it always has!)
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OxMatt
post Sep 28 2018, 11:22 AM
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I am sorry to see these missives, but agree with Marik that it is important for Knights to be able to raise disagreements respectfully, without tempers heating too much, and then to await the thoughts of the Lord Knight.

I should say that, from my perspective, it would simply make no logical sense for my oath to the Knights to come before my faith. My faith is what my oath is sworn on, and is its foundation. That said, I take the Knight's oath very seriously and, should I be in a situation in which I could not uphold it because of my faith, I would of course be honest about that. I would suspect Castiel is of a similar opinion, but of course cannot speak for him.

Ignatius

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TimTreadwell
post Sep 28 2018, 01:30 PM
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I've travelled a lot with Sirac and he really doesn't call people "friend" (let alone "one of my closest friends"!) without being really sure about them. My opinion of Castiel is therefore coloured by my respect for Sirac.

Regardless of anything, and even from my Druidic point of view, your Faith (big F) has to come before your oath to the Knights. If you are a Priest, even more so an Angel, then you ARE your Faith and should never be called upon to directly oppose or compromise it.

Having read Castiel's statement I agree that sometimes you don't have time to discuss matters with your companions. Sometimes you just have to do what needs to be done or things will get worse or, quite literally, go to Hell. This has happened to me at least twice.

I have never met Lord Amorphous personally but his reputation is prolific and he is our elected Lord Knight. Also he, I believe, knows Castiel as well as anyone. I will therefore accept whatever decision he makes in this matter.

Kurth Honeyman.
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Ryan
post Sep 28 2018, 01:39 PM
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I won't claim to know Castiel that well but we have collaborated over similar questions as these asked of other Knights. Our opinions certainly aren't that far detached in most cases.

I would say last year at a point in which neither of us held a position within the Knights he was due to work on the same hire as myself. I would be lying if I said I wasn't slightly concerned by his reputation as an Angel of Micheal prior to our meeting, I did however decide that we'd probably passed each other in a corridor in the Rest and he hadn't killed me yet so was unlikely to when we were out (especially if he liked being a member of our orders).

I was delighted to find he was a stalwart companion and one I would happily work with again even if his methods aren't always what you would call conventional - it is safe to say he is a man of action.

The only time I was ever called to question his conduct we did encounter two peons one of which was holding a knife to the throat of one of the other telling us to approach no closer. Myself and another Senator were assessing how to diffuse the situation and working out what was in our power to achieve having identified both individuals were spiritually mastered. We had decided it was probably some kind of displacement spell on the knife and some careful use of the voice of power prayer but we were ironing out the details. While devising our plan of action Castiel killed them both, at the time I was utterly taken aback by this but he pointed out given the lack of a Paladinic Bless and the inability to cast a spiritual freedom quickly he had decided there was likely to be a death in the process regardless. He said if both were truly not dark spirits and indeed under the sway of dark power his Lord Micheal would restore them both to life free of their possession - while this is not a conventional approach it did seem to work and although I can't comment on the lingering effects of being killed on the psyche of "normal" people they are at least both alive and well.

Louis Athanyn
Lord Warmage
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Dave
post Sep 28 2018, 02:06 PM
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Im gonna make this short and honest.

I really like Castiel and Rufus, both I’ve stood with many times I’ve the past 18 months, so this isnt stabbing anyone in the back. The Lord Knight has the final say, but as the issue has been opened here is my views.

Castiel is a man of action, he has strong beliefs, facist you could say against demons. That is who he is, what he is, I am not against this. But if I was a demon within the Knights of the Land I wouldn’t feel safe with him around.
I’ve seen him in a rage so uncontroallvy I believe he would of killed an innocent who had a demon within him without pause, luckily this was stopped.

He has gone into a rage against demons on Cyrell who worked for the city to defend, yes these demons weee evil, yes we have scried and found out if they weren’t working for the demonology city, they would be a Menanace, but they were loyal to they’re word, and he sent them back to hell, all the while Kail was trying to stop them, he was struck by Castiel.

There were there a group of anti circle followers who were getting the ‘hedge’ out from the baronies, or something like this, again we had scryed, the majority of the group knew the groups true intent was to take the hedge away, sacrifice them to dark (possibly demonic) powers. Castiel has decided this was good enough and all were bad.

I am aware this makes me look like I am against him, I am truely not, I just want to make it clear, he does not like demons, in any shape, size, creature, wether a balrog, a ritual or a peon with a demonic presence inside him.

I hope he does not see this as a beytreal but highlighting his characther to knows who do not know him.

The real question is,

If he meets a knight of the land, who is a demon, what would happen?


The above question can also be asked about a few other people as well... not just my friend Castiel.

Ok, it wasn’t that short!

Good luck at the Arc of Fire!

Snow


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duncanmatthias
post Sep 28 2018, 02:25 PM
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Snow,

To answer your direct question I think the last knight of the Land demon I met was Tidus, fairly sure I fought by his side all day, and restored him to life in the middle of the day when needed.

Castiel
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Dave
post Sep 28 2018, 02:27 PM
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Awesome!


Plus Tidus is wicked....

Snow


QUOTE(duncanmatthias @ Sep 28 2018, 03:25 PM) *
Snow,

To answer your direct question I think the last knight of the Land demon I met was Tidus, fairly sure I fought by his side all day, and restored him to life in the middle of the day when needed.

Castiel



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