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> Mittlenacht
JamesFrazer
post Oct 9 2014, 04:10 AM
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Hey

Doing a little bit of research/writing and I'm trying to find out some information on the Mittlenacht, and there doesn't seem to be much written down anywhere.
Would anyone be able to lend a hand in giving some information on it and what can be found within it etc


Most appreciated


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giles
post Oct 9 2014, 05:31 AM
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There are a number of theories - broadly at the Final Dawn - the spirit of Primus looks at the world as it dies and what it sees is carried into the next year - the Mittelnacht or Secundus is everything that did exist on Primus and then was not seen (for whatever reason) and so was not carried into the next year. Hence the fact that you can find lost villages/people etc. in it

Whether this is due to something deeper - eg. the idea that once the fey/elven people were dominant on Primus, then there was a convergence in which humanity became ascendant - humans were preominant on Primus, and the fey did not simply disappear, but rather their reality became Secundus.

Or the Laiu bound the spirit of the Wyld to the Nagrech, creating the Sallow spirit, before it had been the Sire spirit - which now became the spirit of Secundus/the Mittelnacht.

Broadly - it is Secundus - the fringe world of Primus, containing that which has been forgotten by Primus.

Hope that helps,

Giles.
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dnsmantra
post Oct 9 2014, 09:03 AM
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Mittlenacht and Secundus are broadly different.

Secundal places/planes are broadly futures that didn't happen (or are no longer the prime belief/reality), alternate primal realities and so on. Often those on Secundus believe that they are on Primus and that Primus is Secundus to them. There's no real tally of how many of these there are, how large, or whether they are just small pockets of places clinging on as a shadow of the real.

Sometimes they are starkly different to the Primal, sometimes very similar. Sometimes they can 'rejoin' Primus. A good example is Scarlene and Golden Scarlene. At one point those in the Scarlene (singular) that became Golden Scarlene decided that the Primal reality wouldn't last (I am simplifying heavily here) and so moved 'elsewhere' leaving a shadow or a "Shed Scarlene" behind; that Shed Scarlene being the Scarlene on Primus. They turned out to be wrong and for a while Golden Scarlene remained a Secundal port in the mist between worlds (mittlenacht) until eventually people managed to merge them back together again (hence now Scarlene having a Golden Quarter).

Mittlenacht is the mist between, the places that have been forgotten from Primal reality; the sea of things that are no more. In that sea some places hold on, primarily because of folk lore, tale or some significant event/person or thing that allows them to. For example a place where someone is sacrificed on a huge rock to the beast each year, might continue on as a tiny village with a rock because the tradition and folk lore of the rock and the beast allows it to remain. Remove that and the whole place might just be washed away and lost to mittlenacht. It is all quite 'fey', which most likely relates at least in part to a great convergence between a Secundal Primus where the fey ruled and Primus. This is probably why there are loads of little fey pockets and places scattered around Primus through pockets of 'nacht', along 'mocker-ways' and the like.

Some of those pockets are pockets of Primal reality clinging on, not quite yet forgotten, some are Secundal, futures that never were, or were but convergence changed them not to be any-more.

Huw
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Jasper
post Oct 9 2014, 10:59 AM
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One popular analogy back when we were talking about the nature of primal reality around my mum's kitchen table was of a voluminous coat (Primus, or Labyrinthia as we still called it) with many pockets (various other, lesser planes such as the Fey realms). The Mittlenacht and/or the Void would be the fluffy lining. Secundus I suppose would therefore be the non-biodegradable packaging which ends up in a landfill.

The real question, which remains unanswered, is 'where is the landfill?'
Or perhaps 'who wears the coat?'


J


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DanM
post Oct 9 2014, 11:06 AM
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I prefer the sandwich analogy. With its mustardnact



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Alasdair
post Oct 10 2014, 10:33 PM
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I'm with Huw:

Secundus - the darkly distorted 'mirror realm' of Primus

The 'nacht - the place between places... Hence all the mist and the 'trods' or paths between places. This also supports and works with other exostance 'theories' - leaves of Yggsdrasil the world tree being the planes; the hourglass filled with planes like grains of sand all focused through the centre which is why Primus (at the middle) is so focal.

This view also allows greatest flex for what is in the 'nacht... Which could be anything based on proximate planes, or 'things that don't belong elsewhere/anywhere'

And flex is good... Then you don't impose views and constrain others' thinking/writing/statting.

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Alasdair
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JamesFrazer
post Oct 17 2014, 11:53 PM
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Thank you very much everyone.

This has been incredibly helpful.


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Current Characters:
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; Skorr - Ogre Witch Doctor; Gotrex Yunalesca - Dwarf Berserker Bard.
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I am James Frazer. Frazer is my brother. So I am James Frazer, and he is just Frazer. If you have a message from "Frazer", it's not from me. It's from him. You can find his profile here
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JamesFrazer
post Oct 17 2014, 11:59 PM
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Would I be correct in thinking that, along with Secundus, there are possibilites for other realities e.g. a tertius, a Quartus etc
All based on Primus? But are all bunched together under the term Secundus?


--------------------
Current Characters:
Belgeon - Elven Brown Wizard; D. Reznov - Spirit Warrior of Baronial descent.; Rumple Melchett - Bronze Drave Wizard
; Skorr - Ogre Witch Doctor; Gotrex Yunalesca - Dwarf Berserker Bard.
Real life:
I am James Frazer. Frazer is my brother. So I am James Frazer, and he is just Frazer. If you have a message from "Frazer", it's not from me. It's from him. You can find his profile here
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Alasdair
post Oct 18 2014, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE(JamesFrazer @ Oct 18 2014, 12:59 AM) *
Would I be correct in thinking that, along with Secundus, there are possibilites for other realities e.g. a tertius, a Quartus etc
All based on Primus? But are all bunched together under the term Secundus?


Did I mention I have always fancied writing a Myths?

Al
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dnsmantra
post Oct 19 2014, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE(JamesFrazer @ Oct 18 2014, 12:59 AM) *
Would I be correct in thinking that, along with Secundus, there are possibilites for other realities e.g. a tertius, a Quartus etc
All based on Primus? But are all bunched together under the term Secundus?


There are/can be multiple Secundal realities.

Huw
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BBB
post Oct 20 2014, 07:58 AM
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QUOTE(JamesFrazer @ Oct 18 2014, 12:59 AM) *
Would I be correct in thinking that, along with Secundus, there are possibilites for other realities e.g. a tertius, a Quartus etc
All based on Primus? But are all bunched together under the term Secundus?


Secundal Realities aren't all connected in some continuous plane as Primus is so effectively you had multiple disparate reflections, they would all be Secundus so it doesn't really matter smile.gif

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JamesFrazer
post Oct 23 2014, 06:32 PM
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QUOTE(Alasdair @ Oct 18 2014, 07:52 PM) *
Did I mention I have always fancied writing a Myths?

Al



That's what I'm currently doing as a Hobby. smile.gif


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Current Characters:
Belgeon - Elven Brown Wizard; D. Reznov - Spirit Warrior of Baronial descent.; Rumple Melchett - Bronze Drave Wizard
; Skorr - Ogre Witch Doctor; Gotrex Yunalesca - Dwarf Berserker Bard.
Real life:
I am James Frazer. Frazer is my brother. So I am James Frazer, and he is just Frazer. If you have a message from "Frazer", it's not from me. It's from him. You can find his profile here
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JamesFrazer
post Oct 23 2014, 06:33 PM
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Thank you all very much smile.gif


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Current Characters:
Belgeon - Elven Brown Wizard; D. Reznov - Spirit Warrior of Baronial descent.; Rumple Melchett - Bronze Drave Wizard
; Skorr - Ogre Witch Doctor; Gotrex Yunalesca - Dwarf Berserker Bard.
Real life:
I am James Frazer. Frazer is my brother. So I am James Frazer, and he is just Frazer. If you have a message from "Frazer", it's not from me. It's from him. You can find his profile here
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