IPB WARNING [2] Declaration of class_bbcode::convert_emoticon($matches = Array) should be compatible with class_bbcode_core::convert_emoticon($code = '', $image = '') (Line: 0 of /sources/classes/bbcode/class_bbcode.php)
A summary of what I have been "up to"! - Labyrinthe Forum
IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> A summary of what I have been "up to"!
Netheril
post Jan 24 2022, 01:47 PM
Post #1


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,792
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



I am sure many of you have been hearing all sorts of tales, and speculation. Those who know me know I do not like there to be...misunderstandings so below is a summary, as best I can manage, of the most vital information for you all to know.

Firstly Sonasello has aligned himself with my fledgling guild, the Brood, and I am glad he has. His assistance has been invaluable, and he has created a comprehensive bundle of documents that give a very thorough overview of the whole situation. He has taken input from all of us that have been involved in getting this information, and is in the process of editing and refining his summary so it is as accurate and comprehensive as possible. He will then be sending it out to all that he can think of to aid us. So far his list is:

The remaining of the Seven, the Ko-Tai (spelling?), the Moot, the Confederacy, the Dwarven Kingdoms, the Knights and yes, the Empire of Glass.

We are open to suggestions of who else should know.

I would ask that my fellow knights be very careful of who they speak to about this. Not from a keeping it secret from the enemy perspective, that boat has well and truly sailed. But to avoid causing further panic to the populace, and above all not encouraging any belief in the purely fictitious concept of a "World Eater".

From tomorrow, I encourage any of you that wish to have the full overview of what is happening, to contact Sonasello and I am sure he will share with you. So this is for those who want a very quick and basic summary without reading a lot of detail:

There is a ritual targetting Labyrinthia. That ritual WILL go off on Octuar 29th The ritual has been approximately 1000 years in the planning, and has 21 worlds that have spent centuries preparing in great secrecy for this time. When it goes off Labyrinthia will begin to move away from being in the "primal position", in short we will no longer be what people call Primus if the process completes.

It will complete at the final dawn. This is far faster than would usually be the case, because we have been unnaturally held in place for approximately two thousand years.

Whatever you may have heard, it was our intent if at all possible to stop this ritual going off. We played no part in the establishment of this ritual, and no part in the fact it is now inevitable it will go off.

For full clarity, the ritual could be stopped if all 21 planes were destroyed, killing all who live there. Aside from the morality that means I would never be a part of such an effort, it is virtually impossible to be achieved in time.

We only found out yesterday that the ritual cannot be stopped in time. Which changed everything. So now our focus has to be on re-anchoring Labyrinthia after Octuar 29th, and before the final dawn. We can work to make sure this happens. And we have the beginnings of a plan, for an exostance tree or equivalent to be created, so that whilst re-anchored, we will no longer be responsible for the death of entire worlds to maintain our position. Or the eventual demise (over many millenia) of every other plane in the exostance. Which, whatever others may argue, is what all involved in this have ascertained to be true.

The 21 rituals require a total of 11 or more to be targeted at one target, for that target to be chosen. The default if this is not the case is the throne of glass, which would be disastrous and MUST not be allowed to happen. Four of the rituals target me currently. The other 17 target the throne. The only other valid target is Sinsanium, the leader of those responsible for this ritual. But it does not matter which target is chosen for the result of moving Labyrinthia on. Sinsanium is determined to refocus all the rituals on me.

I feel very confident in promising the ritual will not target the throne.

There is one last thing I have to tell you. That is vital to what is happening. But I am not ready to announce that publicly yet. It is personal, whilst being very important too. There are a few things I must do first. But I will do so within a day or two.

Whilst I will answer brief questions here, I would encourage any with questions to please get the full summary from Sonasello first beforehand. And my replies may be private, depending on the questions asked.

This next paragraph refers to those of my fledgling guilds who bled and died to get all the information we so desperately needed yesterday. I include it here because I hope in time the knights will come to recognise they have stalwart new allies in the Brood. For I can truly say at many desperate moments yesterday, I felt as I have oft felt on knights missions. Grateful to have those beside me who would risk everything for what truly matters:

I will conclude with how proud and grateful I am of all who came to the call yesterday. Many felt totally outmatched and terrified by what they encountered. But I cannot emphasise enough how much of a role all played in our eventual success. Sometimes all you can do is be there to do what you can. A feeling I am all too familiar with. But all did so without complaint, and completed a mission made so much more difficult than it needed to be by circumstances outside of our control. From the outset, avoiding fighting spilling into Halgar whilst defending the tower, we did everything we could...and indeed exceeded what we should have been able to do at times! Thank you all.

We will have a lot of work to do in the coming months, I look forward to the knights hopefully joining the struggle in the months ahead.

Sirac Drakeson
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dnsmantra
post Jan 24 2022, 03:01 PM
Post #2


Avatar
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,601
Joined: 23-November 07
Member No.: 111



QUOTE
It will complete at the final dawn. This is far faster than would usually be the case, because we have been unnaturally held in place for approximately two thousand years


This is the piece where I don't believe there is sufficient evidence. The first age is incredibly difficult to scry about or to reliably pin down information upon. There are numerous conflicting and all seemingly true reports on what did or did not happen there. I would say it is arrogance in the extreme (not yours to be clear, I don't think you're saying this) for anyone to claim they know exactly what happened and that it is definitely true that Primus has been "unnaturally held in place" as the prime world. This was certainly not what was believed for the 10 years I was Lord Inquisitor, nor the years prior, and without wishing to sound big headed I was one the foremost experts on such matters. This doesn't of course mean that I was not wrong. I could be, but there was no evidence.

It seem far too convenient to me that your foes have come up with this as a concept now, and extremely worrisome that it is being believed. As we all know, and you say yourself regarding the matter of the World Eater (entropic 'force' essentially), belief can define reality. I would suggest that nobody spreads anything regarding this 1000 years talk, to anyone who is not vitae charged. I worry that you are being 'played' by your enemies, very cleverly, and very subtly. You, we, all rush around to deal with their rituals and in the meantime that is not their real endgame. This worries me greatly. What is their bigger plan? What do we not know that is beneath the surface? Is this all a ploy to drastically change what people believe to suit some other end?

I would usually suggest that significantly more investigations would be done to confirm if it is true, but where such ancient matters are concerned even the most adept are unlikely to yield certain facts, only 'possibles'. I would hate for decisions on such a potentially cosmos defining scale to be taken based on assumed facts. Believe *nothing* from the 1st Age or prior, regardless of the supposed evidence as more than probably, possible or speculation, is a good rule of thumb in my experience. And I would advise not assuming that reality was or is the same as it is now. The Parallel Exostance theory for example states that there could have been many 'realities' pre-1st age, or indeed ages prior to that which we don't even name, and they converged into one at the dawn of the 1st age. This too of course, could be wrong. Probably is wrong at least in part, History from that long ago is riddled with difficulties and is complex, nuanced and essentially 'broken'.

Indeed it could well be possible that prior to the end of the 1st Age it was *true* in *one reality*. The vast level of convergence and myriad of creation beliefs which all appear to be true are evidence enough of this. Even if it was once true it doesn't mean that it is now.

---

Anyway, moving on. Irrespective of whether I or others believe this or not, there are still these rites and they are still a problem. So best to move forward and work out solutions.

---

You make a number of claims regarding the rituals. That they *cannot* be stopped in time, that they require whole worlds to be destroyed to counter and so on. In my experience nothing is ever impossible or cannot be changed or stopped. There will be ways. They may be shielded, require some outside of the box thinking, some deviousness and so on, but there will be a way. It might be possible for example to subvert the nature of the rites, or the target, or alter precisely what they do, or that there is a hidden 'controlling' rite which can be used to influence the others. It might be possible to shield Primus in its own ritual protections, where we use a piece of ritually empowered nagrech as a lode stone to confuse the rite into targetting that rather than the real Throne, for example. I know people like clear cut yes/no answers, but there is nuance to everything. And there will be more options.

Where you begin to start talking about an "Exostance Tree", this is the kind of stuff which is really good thinking. It builds on already established lines of binding that other worlds already benefit from (Thargos etc). This was a really good passage to read. And it shows some really nice lateral thought. I would start to apply this back to dealing with the rites too. Definitely have a plan for if it all goes wrong as you are doing, but don't plan to fail. See if you can come up with some more lateral ideas for dealing with the rites. Your enemies will want you to believe that they cannot be stopped. Let them believe that, but find a way.

I am happy to provide aid where I can, even if it is just brainstorming some ideas and talking them over with the Empress or using my past experience dealing with matters such as this and smithery / convergence / returning worlds and lost places to Primus to make suggestions.

In terms of resources I know the Inquisition had a number of old relics from my time which might help. Apathy can no doubt confirm that they are still available, as I work for the Empress alone now after my retirement. One of particular note.

The Pantelemicon - I've almost certainly spelt this wrong, but this was a large bell which could be used to move a city/region away from or (perhaps) back to Primus. It was part of a plan which was foiled. I wonder if it might be a useful relic as part of rites to bring back or re-centre Primus in your tree idea. Or perhaps if amplified to shift the whole of Primus briefly away, such that the ritual hits a secundal reflection instead, and then shifts it back. One could look back over the old Vexathacor / Throne of Wood era to consider perhaps also using a fake throne and tricking the ritual to hit that. Or converging or overlaying a secundal version of the throne room over the realm throne room as layers of protection.

---

I would like to look over Sonasello's notes if they can be made available*. Just in-case I have further ideas or can help provide clarity or ideas. I would advise also that someone reach out to He who is Ishmael or Caliph Rain, if nobody has already, such that the leaders or suitable representatives of all nations are included and made aware. I assume with Sonasello involved the Circle are, and given your home, that those of Amlas are likewise. This is a thing which affects not just one land, but all.

Nexus
Arm of the Empress

* - I am shielded from scrying, of all kinds, should that be a worry.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Netheril
post Jan 24 2022, 03:13 PM
Post #3


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,792
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



My thanks for your detailed reply Nexus. Before I get to the few bits I personally can reply to, let me share a conversation I had with Watching Owl, and some divinations he did for me. This was a part of the initial documents I supplied some weeks ago to the Tristan and his Lords:


So first, we have a discussion between myself and Watching Owl. That just clarified what exactly the situation is:



Sirac: Primus did not always use to be the centre of the cosmos. Rituals were performed and enacted to make it so.



Watching Owl: Correct. A World is destined to spend a single Age at the centre of all things. An age being 1,000 years



Prior to that, each plane used to take its turn as the central plane. Entropy and chaos were more rife.



Entropy and Chaos were more rife but I do not believe this was specifically related to the position of Primus [But I cannot say for certain from memory]. The Laiu imposed order and by trapping The Wyld within the Throne of Glass (It is this that Ikhala long swore to free by destroying the Throne of Glass and thus restore his long dead tribe) The Wyld being the original Primal Spirit as it were.



But the way it used to function could be described as akin to a water wheel. With each plane taking its turn to dip into the water and be filled with...energy. This energy would splash everywhere, resulting in the entropy mentioned above. But each plane was refreshed and renewed by taking its turn to dip into this source, or whatever you want to call it.



By fixing Primus in place, we are permanently held in place. And there is no more "splashing about" so entropy and chaos are much less of a problem for all planes. Primus being Primus brings stability, is what we are told.




Primus is renewed at each Age, every 1,000 years. A World is supposed to hold sway at the centre for a 1,000 years. It was at the end of the 1st Age that Primus repeated and retrod the previous age to steal another turn at the centre of the exostance. A the end of the 2nd Age, at the High Final Dawn, we did this again. I would consult J [Stuart Maggs], Aspect of Death of Blauze and The Tranquil for more information, they had a hand in this at the birth of the 3rd Age.



However, what I have been told is that there is a price for this stability. No other plane gets to take its turn now. And without doing so, in time (a great deal of time, millenia maybe) each plane will actually be destroyed, all life extinguished, without the opportunity to be renewed.



The phenomenon of the decay of a world that should have been at the centre of all things was, erroneously, and very dangerously, referred to as “The World Eater”. This was dangerous because once this concept entered the minds of peons it began to take form. Belief defines reality, and what was once a process became a Force. Jander may recall more about The World Eater. I have a vague recollection he may have taken interest in the matter due to some connection to the Bronze dragon but I may be mistaken, it was two decades ago!



Whilst it would take a very long time for every plane to meet this fate, it is already a threat for those planes that were nearest to "taking their turn", and have been deprived of this by Primus ceasing the "turning of the wheel". Those planes that have been longest since renewal are already failing. And there is a coalition that have come together to enact a very powerful ritual to end this unnatural state and make the wheel turn once more, ending Primus's status at the centre of things.



A number of planes were known to have died this way and some of their inhabitants moved closer to the centre of all things and sought sanctuary on Primus




Next we have the results of the divinations Watching Owl carried out for me:



How accurate is the above? What important / salient information is missing or has been misunderstood with regard to the above?

It is accurate; particularly with Watching Owls amendments.

What would be the consequences for Primus if the council of renewal were to successfully complete their ritual. Both long term, and short term, what would the impact be on Primus?

Difficult to define, but short term Primus would begin to move away from it's central position as the central plane. Short-term there would be little change other than the process of moving and a new plane approaching would be started.

The other short term consequences depend on how the ritual is enacted; if the ritual remains focused on the flaw in the Throne of Glass it would destroy the Throne and free the Wyld Primal Spirit. If Sinsaniam is successful in his subversions of the ritual then a new flaw would be destroyed.

It is possible to find a new flaw to be the target of the ritual however due to works already undertaken there are only three real possible flaws that could be targeted.

Long-term the consequences to Primus are that things will slowly change, over millenia Primus would experience decay but it would be renewed when it has its turn at the centre once again. It is possible that as the plane moves over the millenia that dragons power would rise and fall as would gods, new people would settle on Primus from other planes that may not believe in the gods and dragons as the people of Primus do; belief defines reality and so dragons and gods will be impacted. Less mercenaries would form on Primus but new mercenaries would form on new worlds whilst they are at the centre.

Very Long-term, Primus would not suffer more or less than any other plane but in comparison to the current status quo Primus would not be so uniquely safe as it is now.

What would be the consequences for the other planes of existence if the ritual is foiled, and the status quo maintained? How severe, and over what time scale?

This is a very long-term question but as has already happened Planes would continue to be destroyed and their inhabitants would seek sanctuary on Primus and other close by planes that have been renewed in more recent times. The extreme long-term is that the planes closest to the centre would become over-populated. With over-population becomes a rise in evil, greed and destruction. Populations would be wiped out to create space. Essentially; eventually only Primus would remain a swollen plane filled with the last remnants of a dead Exostance over run with demons and angels, dragons and gods but no life other than what remains on Primus.

Is there an alternate way to "fix" this problem. Perhaps for power to flow from Primus to the other planes, allowing them to be renewed over time?

Not to anyone's current knowledge, not impossible just no one currently knows of any such way. Belief defines reality so possible if an idea is formed but time is not on your side.

Sinsanium is shielded from your scrying. But can you see anyone that believes they know / knew him well. That could perhaps reveal what happened to him to change him from being the "best" of the council of renewal, to the raving hate filled lunatic he has become? Any who know of the nature of the flaw within him, twin to that within me?

Sadly not it would appear the Council know him well but all appear to be protected from scrying. There is however speculation, a mere hint of a whisper that when another being was created with a flaw that through some divine compact under the rule of day and night a corresponding flaw formed within Sinsaniam driving the once great ruler to insanity.

What is the purpose of the map of the exostance recently retrieved? Explain its properties and any potential uses it may have. Especially with regard tracing the various rituals.

The Map of Exostance; can be translated by a member of the Council in order to give all the locations of the 21 rituals.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
giles
post Jan 24 2022, 03:16 PM
Post #4


Legend
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,083
Joined: 23-November 07
Member No.: 68



Trantelapemicon - though I'm probably spelling it wrong too.

Like Nexus I would counsel caution. I would also suggest one way to glean further information about the nature of the Throne and the Exostance might be to speak to the single remaining Laiu who has not ascended. I believe one of the Twins of Amlas, Amlalt I believe, she was one of the Laiu. Maybe speaking with her might enable you to discover what was done but also more about the nature of the Throne and the Exostance.

Like Nex' I would be interested in a copy of Sonasello's notes. As an aside my thanks for containing the violence within Halgar so it did not spill over into the streets,


Nev' DeVille
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Netheril
post Jan 24 2022, 03:31 PM
Post #5


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,792
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



So the reason I shared the above was to just show what some of my own investigations comprised of to get to this stage.

In answer to your advice and concerns about what may or may not be true, all I can say is the group that assembled comprised some of the most experienced mercenaries i know, that have learned many of the lessons you seek to impart through their own, oft bitter, experiences. I do not necessarily count myself amongst those, whilst I have a great deal of knowledge, power and expertise in my own fields, I am at best an amateur ritualist and a novice when it comes to learning about the true nature of the exostance.

Which is why from the outset I have been determined to eventually get a full picture from EVERYONE that can aid.

Sonasello and Lord Jesiah especially would be very difficult to deceive, and are very experienced at dealing with...manipulation shall we say. As am I in all honesty when it comes to deception, I have a strong distaste for such so have quite extensive training to recognise and counter such things.

None of us are infallible of course. Well, apart from maybe Jez!

But I can tell you that EVERYONE that has divined and scried has come to the same conclusions. I would encourage you to absolutely do likewise.

And now, given your comments on lateral thinking, I suppose it is time for me to state the one thing I have been holding back. Given that you have the expertise and knowledge to tell me if you think what I actually plan to do is actually unnecessary / foolish.

I speak of this with you only because you are warded from scrying, and can make any others listening be likewise, and so are these chambers.

It is my intent within the next couple of days to make a deal with Sinsanium, the leader of those who target Labyrinthia. Our scrying reveals he will, at this stage, accept this deal as he still fears he may lose. He will agree to his destruction, and rebirth. If I agree to be destroyed utterly by this rite. Wiped from existence, so that not even a part of me may turn on the wheel.

This will end the long term threat from his allies, the council of renewal too. As he can be reborn without the flaw that has driven him mad.

And means we do not exhaust our efforts trying to capture 11 of the ritual sites, which we may or may not succeed in. But will instead devote what time remains to me with my family, the Brood and SADOS, putting all our efforts into preparing to re-anchor Labyrinthia the moment the ritual completes. As soon after Octuar 29th as possible, we hope to have everything in place to do so. Following the plan of the Exostance Tree currently, though still not finalised this looks the most promising avenue so far.

If in the course of those preparations, you or another can indeed find a way of stopping the ritual altogether, we will of course gladly do so.

Avenues we have investigated and discounted include:

Me and/or sinsanium already being dead when the ritual activates. The default target is the throne of glass if the target nominated becomes invalid.
Healing the flaws inside us both. Again defaults to the throne.

I would say any further questions should probably wait until you have the full bundle from Sonasello. But then I will gladly answer anything else I can when you have read those, and carried out your own investigations.

Sirac Drakeson
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dnsmantra
post Jan 24 2022, 03:51 PM
Post #6


Avatar
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,601
Joined: 23-November 07
Member No.: 111



QUOTE
Trantelapemicon - though I'm probably spelling it wrong too.


That's the one.

QUOTE
Like Nexus I would counsel caution. I would also suggest one way to glean further information about the nature of the Throne and the Exostance might be to speak to the single remaining Laiu who has not ascended. I believe one of the Twins of Amlas, Amlalt I believe, she was one of the Laiu. Maybe speaking with her might enable you to discover what was done but also more about the nature of the Throne and the Exostance.


This sounds like an extremely good idea.

I wonder also whether it wouldn't be possible to travel back to a point in time when the likes of Gawlys (the ggrutuck home world which was destroyed by the 'World Eater' some 15-20 year ago) still existed and confirm more clearly the specificity of its demise, or perhaps talk to those who were there and who may know. There were those who would have fled from it via the Hasleracht and been enslaved by the Spiter, then later freed, who might know. Specifically was Gawlys a world destined to be prime? How does that align with the world thief/eater ('natural' decay) destroying more than one world (such as the Blauz home). Were these even older? My thinking here is to try and ascertain *if* the thousand year cycle is true how long does it take for a world to decay. Why did many worlds seemingly decay all at once? What caused that. Is there something in knowing how/why that could allow the reverse to be true and more than one world to be restored at once?

Sadly my memory isn't quite what it was. All of this was heavily tied up in the Vandling Way as well I think. I would certainly advise speaking with J, as Owl suggests. He and some of the others of the Restless were heavily involved and perhaps have old notes somewhere**

Some further musings on the Exostance Tree idea. Using a place such as the Crossroads in the Thrice, which is a naturally nexus point between worlds, could be a good tether, rather than just the throne. Or, somewhat more ambitiously seek to restore or use something like the Hasleracht was as a bridge between worlds.

Nexus

(** - old hote turns - many of my copies of such things and my notes were largely on a portable hard disk which was lost a decade ago alas)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patch
post Jan 24 2022, 03:54 PM
Post #7


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,403
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



QUOTE(Netheril @ Jan 24 2022, 03:31 PM) *
It is my intent within the next couple of days to make a deal with Sinsanium, the leader of those who target Labyrinthia. Our scrying reveals he will, at this stage, accept this deal as he still fears he may lose. He will agree to his destruction, and rebirth. If I agree to be destroyed utterly by this rite. Wiped from existence, so that not even a part of me may turn on the wheel.

This will end the long term threat from his allies, the council of renewal too. As he can be reborn without the flaw that has driven him mad.

Sirac Drakeson


For the record... this is absolute idiocy and madness...

I had never expected such a defeatist attitude from you Sirac, honestly I had long believed you better than this. you have the ability to change this, and instead you would agree to die for it without even trying... I am frankly lost for words, which does not happen often.

Elan


--------------------
Patch

Plays:
Harpell - He Who Is Elbrime
Vrere Da'Karte
Gabriel Drake
Elan: Malefactum


For Malefactum Issues: Malefactum.IM1022@gmail.com
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dnsmantra
post Jan 24 2022, 04:03 PM
Post #8


Avatar
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 6,601
Joined: 23-November 07
Member No.: 111



QUOTE
Me and/or sinsanium already being dead when the ritual activates. The default target is the throne of glass if the target nominated becomes invalid.
Healing the flaws inside us both. Again defaults to the throne.


I'll wait for the full bundle of info, but this is just the sort of thing where some kind of obfuscation or 'fake' target might be just the thing we need. So the ritual does strike the throne of glass, but it is not the right throne. Bold as it is, maybe we just make a second throne.

QUOTE
None of us are infallible of course. Well, apart from maybe Jez!


Nah, he's fallible, he's just better than most at making it appear like he meant it all along and turning a possible cockup (often other people's cockups to be fair) into a victory. And I say this with a smile and as one of his oldest friends. Many good times of drinking Sensai's Tea, us trapping the house together for when it was Sensai's watch. Of everyone having run away and us just saying F*** it and tossing the insane holy cache at the first of six liches just so we could at least kill one of them...

But I digress. I'll have a read and a muse and do some scrying*.

Nexus

(* - OOC: though I'm not sure who to send them to, or whether it's an on dungeon only thing)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Netheril
post Jan 24 2022, 04:05 PM
Post #9


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,792
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



QUOTE(Patch @ Jan 24 2022, 03:54 PM) *
For the record... this is absolute idiocy and madness...

I had never expected such a defeatist attitude from you Sirac, honestly I had long believed you better than this. you have the ability to change this, and instead you would agree to die for it without even trying... I am frankly lost for words, which does not happen often.

Elan


You do know me well...old friend. I suppose I should be honest enough to term you such at this stage.

Understand my initial reaction was indeed what you would expect. My mothers nature has been very much in the ascendance these last few days. I have little Harmony to offer. And my mother HATES to admit defeat, especially in a fight.

I have spent a lot of hours agonising over this.

But we have set out twice with the intent of dealing with a ritual site on that day. And each time have been unable to get even close to doing so.

Now our enemy knows and is on full alert for what we seek to do. And our allies have been greatly weakened by the premature notice being given to the enemy.

I have died twice on the last two such missions. I have more vitae than was true a year ago, but if I were to be permanently slain then the ritual defaults to the throne, and the Wyld is released. That cannot happen.

And even if I survive, it is a huge risk whether we can actually capture and hold all 11 sites. It would require multiple armies working in conjunction from numerous lands and organisations. And missions for my family that I am just not sure we can complete. Not sure enough to gamble with what is at risk.

This plan was not my own. But all my divinations reveal this to be the safest path for victory. I can see no other path before me that is safe to walk.

I am sorry.

Sirac
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Patch
post Jan 24 2022, 04:14 PM
Post #10


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,403
Joined: 23-November 07
From: "Sunny" Wales
Member No.: 59



QUOTE(Netheril @ Jan 24 2022, 04:05 PM) *
You do know me well...old friend. I suppose I should be honest enough to term you such at this stage.

Understand my initial reaction was indeed what you would expect. My mothers nature has been very much in the ascendance these last few days. I have little Harmony to offer. And my mother HATES to admit defeat, especially in a fight.

I have spent a lot of hours agonising over this.

But we have set out twice with the intent of dealing with a ritual site on that day. And each time have been unable to get even close to doing so.

Now our enemy knows and is on full alert for what we seek to do. And our allies have been greatly weakened by the premature notice being given to the enemy.

I have died twice on the last two such missions. I have more vitae than was true a year ago, but if I were to be permanently slain then the ritual defaults to the throne, and the Wyld is released. That cannot happen.

And even if I survive, it is a huge risk whether we can actually capture and hold all 11 sites. It would require multiple armies working in conjunction from numerous lands and organisations. And missions for my family that I am just not sure we can complete. Not sure enough to gamble with what is at risk.

This plan was not my own. But all my divinations reveal this to be the safest path for victory. I can see no other path before me that is safe to walk.

I am sorry.

Sirac


I shall contact you privately, once I have read Sonasello's notes.

But this is a stupid idea... it really is... just because something is easy or safe does not make it right, and that's something an annoying young Drave once told me...

Elan


--------------------
Patch

Plays:
Harpell - He Who Is Elbrime
Vrere Da'Karte
Gabriel Drake
Elan: Malefactum


For Malefactum Issues: Malefactum.IM1022@gmail.com
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Netheril
post Jan 24 2022, 09:56 PM
Post #11


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,792
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



It would seem some of my Brother Knights may not have had opportunity to read this.

I will draw attention to it, in case it may help with clarity.

Sirac
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ferro
post Jan 25 2022, 06:28 AM
Post #12


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,431
Joined: 1-May 13
Member No.: 2,812



Sirac, this part of your missive concerns me.


So now our focus has to be on re-anchoring Labyrinthia after Octuar 29th, and before the final dawn. We can work to make sure this happens. And we have the beginnings of a plan, for an exostance tree or equivalent to be created, so that whilst re-anchored, we will no longer be responsible for the death of entire worlds to maintain our position. Or the eventual demise (over many millenia) of every other plane in the exostance. Which, whatever others may argue, is what all involved in this have ascertained to be true.


I am not sure who made this decision but it’s one that I don’t think I am comfortable with (at least at the current time).

Labyrinthia being unnaturally held as Primus is what caused this in the first place and now we’re talking about reanchoring it straight away? Shouldn’t we be learning lessons and looking for alternatives to stop this happening again?

Can we guarantee that siphoning power from Primus to the thousands of other planes is even achievable?

Kiwi


--------------------
Stacey
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Netheril
post Jan 25 2022, 06:50 AM
Post #13


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,792
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



QUOTE(Ferro @ Jan 25 2022, 06:28 AM) *
Sirac, this part of your missive concerns me.
So now our focus has to be on re-anchoring Labyrinthia after Octuar 29th, and before the final dawn. We can work to make sure this happens. And we have the beginnings of a plan, for an exostance tree or equivalent to be created, so that whilst re-anchored, we will no longer be responsible for the death of entire worlds to maintain our position. Or the eventual demise (over many millenia) of every other plane in the exostance. Which, whatever others may argue, is what all involved in this have ascertained to be true.
I am not sure who made this decision but it’s one that I don’t think I am comfortable with (at least at the current time).

Labyrinthia being unnaturally held as Primus is what caused this in the first place and now we’re talking about reanchoring it straight away? Shouldn’t we be learning lessons and looking for alternatives to stop this happening again?

Can we guarantee that siphoning power from Primus to the thousands of other planes is even achievable?

Kiwi


Greetings Kiwi,

This is a very valid concern. My early divinations reveal that this exostance tree is indeed a viable option. That we can maintain position AND end the threat to the exostance. But it will need a lot more investigation to be sure it is a safe option to pursue. And what the consequences will be for this redistribution of primal energy.

If Labyrinthia were to move on, there is no guarantee one of the next worlds to take the Primal spot would not anchor themselves now the precedent has been set. No guarantee they would not be a warlike plane that does not do any of the good that Labyrinthia has undoubtedly done, but instead inflict terrible harm and dominion over all other worlds.

There are multiple other issues such as the harm that would be done to our lands and peoples. And that of all the other worlds already linked to us. And the current setup has, I believe, reduced entropy across the majority of the exostance too, except obviously for the outlying worlds.

Labyrinthia remaining Primus is undoubtedly the best option. So long as we find a solution to the long term threat to the rest of the exostance. If it were the case that it was impossible for us to remain Primus without being responsible for destroying every other world my answer would of course be different. But I do not believe that to be the case.

And this must be completed before the final dawn, otherwise it will be too late and we will have moved out of position.

Sirac Drakeson
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ferro
post Jan 25 2022, 07:41 AM
Post #14


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,431
Joined: 1-May 13
Member No.: 2,812



Surely now, more than ever, we need to make alliances and allies with the other planes, get their opinions. By grinding our heels in just because we “did it first” and are worried less desirable planes will follow this precedence just to me feels led by nothing of self importance. We need to do what’s best for everyone, not just us and making that decision without even speaking to the leaders of the other planes just feels…. Wrong.

I get that time isn’t on our side but there’s just as much chance of us causing enemies for ourselves by reanchoring as Primus. Clearly not every plane will be in agreement of this so what are we going to do? Go to war with or not support the planes who object this?

Kiwi


--------------------
Stacey
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ferro
post Jan 25 2022, 07:41 AM
Post #15


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,431
Joined: 1-May 13
Member No.: 2,812



Surely now, more than ever, we need to make alliances and allies with the other planes, get their opinions. By grinding our heels in just because we “did it first” and are worried less desirable planes will follow this precedence just to me feels led by nothing of self importance. We need to do what’s best for everyone, not just us and making that decision without even speaking to the leaders of the other planes just feels…. Wrong.

I get that time isn’t on our side but there’s just as much chance of us causing enemies for ourselves by reanchoring as Primus. Clearly not every plane will be in agreement of this so what are we going to do? Go to war with or not support the planes who object this?

Kiwi


--------------------
Stacey
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Netheril
post Jan 25 2022, 07:50 AM
Post #16


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,792
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



QUOTE(Ferro @ Jan 25 2022, 07:41 AM) *
Surely now, more than ever, we need to make alliances and allies with the other planes, get their opinions. By grinding our heels in just because we “did it first” and are worried less desirable planes will follow this precedence just to me feels led by nothing of self importance. We need to do what’s best for everyone, not just us and making that decision without even speaking to the leaders of the other planes just feels…. Wrong.

I get that time isn’t on our side but there’s just as much chance of us causing enemies for ourselves by reanchoring as Primus. Clearly not every plane will be in agreement of this so what are we going to do? Go to war with or not support the planes who object this?

Kiwi


Given the difficulties of finding consensus and agreement in these halls with my brother Knights, the thought of trying to achieve such on a cosmic scale fills me with a dread like few things ever have!

I would venture that for most planes, nothing is changing. Primus is remaining the same Primus it has been for the last two millenia. And hopefully, for the outlying worlds, the benefit of what we are aiming to do will be felt swiftly. And not be cause for anger.

But that is a lot of hope and speculation. It is my intent to invite representatives of any and all interested parties to the gold tower of magery to discuss every plan, idea and option in detail. The chambers are being prepared and should be open soon. There those wiser and more knowledgeable than me can hammer out all options, and I hope a consensus can be found.

Sirac
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kail
post Jan 25 2022, 08:15 AM
Post #17


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,991
Joined: 12-August 08
From: Rochester
Member No.: 644



Surely the next plane that is due to become Primus is incredibly weak and near dead so would pose no threat to us?

How much of Labyrinthinia's strength would we need to siphon off to support all the other planes at a level where it is a reasonable life for there inhabitants? Is there even enough power in Labyrinthinia to do this?

I would like to attend any gathering to discu6this if I would be welcome.

Kail
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Netheril
post Jan 25 2022, 08:23 AM
Post #18


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,792
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



QUOTE(Kail @ Jan 25 2022, 08:15 AM) *
Surely the next plane that is due to become Primus is incredibly weak and near dead so would pose no threat to us?

How much of Labyrinthinia's strength would we need to siphon off to support all the other planes at a level where it is a reasonable life for there inhabitants? Is there even enough power in Labyrinthinia to do this?

I would like to attend any gathering to discu6this if I would be welcome.

Kail


It is questions like this that will need answering, and further investigation as mentioned before. My powers of divination are limited to my access to the Arcanum library, and sitting down for a chat with my parents a couple of times a day. But these are not really things that are their specialities!

This is what I asked and was told last time they had time to have a chat with me:

Is it possible, as a result of my sacrifice, and influence over the seal being created, that the damage to other worlds could be greatly reduced. Perhaps a flaw within the seal that allows some primal energy to be directed to the most outlying worlds, gradually working its way across all planes over the course of millenia as a kind of wave of constantly replenished primal energy. Or any similar ritual solution of this ilk.

- ​absolutely i believe an exostance tree could be grown to spread the power evenly over the exostance tieing all planes to primus enough that they essentially will not need to be renewed. other entropy and destruction will always happen but as for planes ceasing to exist because of the cycle of renewal this would stop.

Any that seek to attend to genuinely work towards a solution, and not cause argument and division, will be welcome. So of course you will!

Sirac
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ChrisAndrews
post Jan 25 2022, 09:50 AM
Post #19


Tiffer
********

Group: Members
Posts: 3,310
Joined: 23-November 07
Member No.: 34



QUOTE(Kail @ Jan 25 2022, 08:15 AM) *
How much of Labyrinthinia's strength would we need to siphon off to support all the other planes at a level where it is a reasonable life for there inhabitants? Is there even enough power in Labyrinthinia to do this?


I've not had a peer review about my maths yet to confirm but it should be fine.

Each plane rotates around to the Source once per Age and recieves a portion of power. That power, E, is enough to sustain it for one Age, A, for each other Plane, P, that has to take it's turn. Some of this power "sloshes" into Entropy, S.

Assuming an infinite number of planes there is no problem - the power each plane recieved lasts it forever.

Assuming a non-infinite but arbitrarily large number of planes we are left with the following:

E-S = AP

We know that Primus is "wasting" less power to Entropy in it's current position, S'. Therefore it receives:

E-S' = AP

Sirac's working with Owl suggest that other planes becoming the central plane would lead to them having more Vitae etc. I am therefore assuming this is an effect of being full of power rather than requiring additional power. Either way we have S-S' "additional" power over what we "should" have along with enough power to fuel every other plane in the exostance. At least as an Input to Primus.

Absolute worst-case we could siphon off AP-A power to the other planes, leaving Primus with P+(S-S'). This might weaken the plane slighty compared to where we started but would still leave Primus pre-eminent and empowered more than others. The scale of the numbers involved would mean that S and S' are likely to also be arbitrarily large, possibly even exceeding A.

Regarding planes "At Risk". We can assume that best-case a plane takes Primacy a period of time before it would fail. After that time it begins to wane and eventually fades. This means all planes that have been "skipped" are savable but maybe in bad shape.
Worst case a Plane is destroyed the moment after it is skipped. This means we can do nothing for the 3 planes that have been passed over and the 4th plane will be destroyed in a little over 950 years at the start of the 4th Age.

Edge case: The maths are all out of whack, there's not enough energy in the Exostance to sustain all the planes and therefore we should preserve a small subset of planes we know can survive. This would be the case if any more than 4 planes are at risk from fading due to this specifically. Any destruction due to other events is out of the picture and I am assuming that the creation-rate of new planes matches the destruction rate. If no new planes are created then we are in an even better position regarding available energy. If the creation rate exceeds the destruction rate we are again forced to choose a subset of planes.

Apologies for the lack of blackboard - I think this is really a nice chalk equation sort of chat. Will see if I can bring one along when we muster.

Tertius
Who paid attention during lectures
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Netheril
post Jan 25 2022, 10:01 AM
Post #20


Mercenary
******

Group: Members
Posts: 1,792
Joined: 23-September 12
From: Surrey
Member No.: 2,516



Thank you Tertius, I am not familiar with that type of magic, but will be very glad of your assistance and advice on what does and doesnt work when we meet!

One thing I can share though. We have of course raised the issue of the vast amounts of time passing that we are talking about, countless millenia. And have received somewhat worrying replies that things may not be anywhere near as straightforward as they appear.

The more entropy allowed to exist and consume worlds, the more stories of the World Eater or similar such threats will spread. And this will greatly hasten the demise of even more worlds if allowed to proceed unchallenged.

Also, a world that misses its ascension is indeed immediately destroyed. According to what I have been told anyway.

As well as arranging chambers for us to begin to meet with all concerned, at Kail's suggestion, I am also looking to arrange an evening where we can all get together and discuss things in person. I will update with information on that as soon as possible.

Sirac
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 29th April 2024 - 06:31 PM
Original Darkness Skin Created by Danellis
Converted by Mdgshorty of New Horizon Skins